CDZ Can a LACK of Discipline be a Form of Abuse?

[Jackson]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

Sounds like our President

They ended up sending him to military school

You can't discuss anything maturely without pinning something about Trump, can you. LET IT GO!

 

[Vastator]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

Sounds like our President

They ended up sending him to military school

You can't discuss anything maturely without pinning something about Trump, can you. LET IT GO!

Inadvertently; he points out the potential for greatness of such strong children...

 

[Jackson]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

Sounds like our President

They ended up sending him to military school

You can't discuss anything maturely without pinning something about Trump, can you. LET IT GO!

Inadvertently; he points out the potential for greatness of such strong children...

It's interesting to think my little Michael who just had such a hard time ridding himself of the urge to lick the bottom of his shoes could one day President Michael.

 

[Vastator]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

Sounds like our President

They ended up sending him to military school

You can't discuss anything maturely without pinning something about Trump, can you. LET IT GO!

Inadvertently; he points out the potential for greatness of such strong children...

It's interesting to think my little Michael who just had such a hard time ridding himself of the urge to lick the bottom of his shoes could one day President Michael.

It’s amazing what can be done under strong leadership. Iron, sharpens iron.

 

[Anathema]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a bugger. They say it evolves when a child is overwhelmed with anxiety about a choice or a change, feels a lack of control of their situation, that kind of thing. I've worked with these kids a few times. They will shoot themselves in the foot, knowing full well the negative consequences their actions will bring. It is highly self-destructive.
This diagnosis morphs into anti-social when they grow up.
It's not something you can fix with a paddle and a strict bedtime, guys. And if this child in the OP has been diagnosed, you can bet intervention is already on board.

Some of the strategies the OP spoke of--letting the child "get away with it" and not losing your temper--is part of it. If you push against these kids, it escalates extremely fast. Offer a choice if possible, so the child can feel he has at least a bit of control of the situation; it lowers the anxiety level.

It's a rough diagnosis. I feel nothing but sympathy for all involved.

I can see from your comments where he probably got it from. I can’t believe that continuously letting the kid rule the house makes things better. Intervention is nonexistent. That would require taking the kid to appointments or actually getting his meds filled.

 

[Natural Citizen]

It's interesting to think my little Michael who just had such a hard time ridding himself of the urge to lick the bottom of his shoes could one day President Michael.

Hey, that's my son's name, too. Named after the Archangel Michael.

 

[Anathema]

Then she needs to be straightened out herself.

How is he at school? Generally they will refer to Child Services if the behavior is pronounced.

Yes she does, but that’s not happening either.

They did refer to child services. That’s how they got the ODD diagnosis. The mother just isn’t carrying through on anything.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

/---/ Back in the day a kid like that would get a paddling. Usually one would do the trick - problem solved. But today, we listen to Dr Phil and Oprah and coddle the kids or load him up on meds.

At age nine he's well past the paddling stage.

We had paddling up until High School Senior.

 

[Natural Citizen]

What do you mean..."Good for him?"

Helicopter parenting is ruining a generation. It causes these problems with children. It turns the minto little narcissists and ultimately creates an adult narcissist and it causes a great deal of other problems in life. These kids grow up to be emotionally unstable, unable to be productive or self-sufficient without constant guidance, and not only that, they never move out, they end up afraid of living in the world without mom and dad their to protect them from every little bug or bee.

Let the them go outside play with a stick or something for a change. Allow them some semblance of independence. Kids don't get to do that stuff anymore.

 

[Jackson]

Then she needs to be straightened out herself.

How is he at school? Generally they will refer to Child Services if the behavior is pronounced.

Yes she does, but that’s not happening either.

They did refer to child services. That’s how they got the ODD diagnosis. The mother just isn’t carrying through on anything.

Is the mother on drugs, incompetent or lazy?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a bugger. They say it evolves when a child is overwhelmed with anxiety about a choice or a change, feels a lack of control of their situation, that kind of thing. I've worked with these kids a few times. They will shoot themselves in the foot, knowing full well the negative consequences their actions will bring. It is highly self-destructive.
This diagnosis morphs into anti-social when they grow up.
It's not something you can fix with a paddle and a strict bedtime, guys. And if this child in the OP has been diagnosed, you can bet intervention is already on board.

Some of the strategies the OP spoke of--letting the child "get away with it" and not losing your temper--is part of it. If you push against these kids, it escalates extremely fast. Offer a choice if possible, so the child can feel he has at least a bit of control of the situation; it lowers the anxiety level.

It's a rough diagnosis. I feel nothing but sympathy for all involved.

I can see from your comments where he probably got it from. I can’t believe that continuously letting the kid rule the house makes things better. Intervention is nonexistent. That would require taking the kid to appointments or actually getting his meds filled.

Give him a choice of punishments: Sit there for 15 minutes, or take x licks.

Damn, my right buttcheek just had a pain flashback!

 

[OldLady]

No one is remotely interested in listening to me, but Oppositional Defiant Disorder is not something you can fix with a belt or a paddle. It is not caused by lax parenting or over permissive parenting, either. It is a disorder in the child's ability to process his/her emotional load.

It seems to me that ADHD and ODD, especially ODD can be incorrectly diagnosed when the situation arose that actually was the result of inappropriate parenting.

True, so can trauma symptoms be misdiagnosed as ADHD. Or, as you said, it could be a kid who has never been taught predictable rules and consequences (lazy parenting). It ain't easy to tease out which is which, I'm sure, but one would hope the professionals that gave the OP's nephew his diagnosis know what they are doing. A family practitioner might prescribe the meds but they would never make an ODD diagnosis themselves. It takes a child behavioral expert to do that, usually with a good deal of observation of the child in the home and school settings, time spent with the child, the parents, etc.

 

[OldLady]

No one is remotely interested in listening to me, but Oppositional Defiant Disorder is not something you can fix with a belt or a paddle. It is not caused by lax parenting or over permissive parenting, either. It is a disorder in the child's ability to process his/her emotional load.

It’s not a disorder. And nothing needs to be “fixed”. Jesus Christ no wonder kids are so fucked up today. The child’s development isn’t being fostered. And your “disorders” are the result.

You are mixing up your general misbehaving children with children with ODD. There is a difference.

 

[rightwinger]

I have a nine year old nephew who has significant discipline issues. Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc... he refuses to accept any form of authority over him. He’s been diagnosed as having Obsessive Defiance Disorder (ODD) and ADHD.

Nobody who has any authority over this kid will stand up to him. He’s allowed to make his own rules and throws a massive fit whenever any sort of discipline is even talked about. He curses and swears at his parents and literally ignores any limits imposed on him by anyone in authority.

At some point does failing to apply actual order and discipline on this child become a form of abuse or neglect in its own right? I’m not suggesting a need to get authorities involved, but st what point are these people doing this child a massive disservice with potentially lifelong consequences?

Sounds like our President

They ended up sending him to military school

You can't discuss anything maturely without pinning something about Trump, can you. LET IT GO!

Read up on young Trump
Same behavior

 

[Vastator]

No one is remotely interested in listening to me, but Oppositional Defiant Disorder is not something you can fix with a belt or a paddle. It is not caused by lax parenting or over permissive parenting, either. It is a disorder in the child's ability to process his/her emotional load.

It’s not a disorder. And nothing needs to be “fixed”. Jesus Christ no wonder kids are so fucked up today. The child’s development isn’t being fostered. And your “disorders” are the result.

You are mixing up your general misbehaving children with children with ODD. There is a difference.

No. I’m not.
The difference is one that is seldom given any distinction. Especially by those who prescribe meds; and the parents who want it done. A hallmark of this failure in parenting is often betrayed by the parents themselves describing “how much difficulty” they, themselves are having in rearing their child. Usually it’s the parents having a problem. Not a problem with the child...

 

[Anathema]

Or are they bright enough. This could be "Lazy Parenting" or Parenting by a Challenged Person." What is the father like? Is he around?.

The father has never been involved with the kid and wouldn’t be a helpful individual even if he was involved.

 

[Anathema]

I wonder if there is ANYONE in the family that can rear him properly. A grandparent, aunt, God parent?

My wife and I could, but we live next door to them and even if CPS were to award us custody, the rest of the family will be right there to interfere.

 

[Vastator]

Or are they bright enough. This could be "Lazy Parenting" or Parenting by a Challenged Person." What is the father like? Is he around?.

The father has never been involved with the kid and wouldn’t be a helpful individual even if he was involved.

There’s the problem... Bad mating selection, and poor parenting. The kid has an uphill battle ahead of him, that’s for sure. He needs a strong authoritative man for a role model. Good luck finding one that would invest in another mans child at the expense of his own...

 

[Natural Citizen]

Relevant reading - Why Children of Overprotective Parents Are Slated to Fail in Life

It's a well written paper, far deeper than I chose to go with it.

 

[Vastator]

I wonder if there is ANYONE in the family that can rear him properly. A grandparent, aunt, God parent?

My wife and I could, but we live next door to them and even if CPS were to award us custody, the rest of the family will be right there to interfere.

Well... you are the parent of the one who birthed this boy. If you get custody have the strength to stand up to your daughter. Be the figure this boy needs. Or watch the cycle repeat itself. Decisions, decisions...