Wow! That was an embarrassing admission that you're totally rebuttal-challenged.This is not a comprehensive list of NSGTs. Tibet, Kashmir, Palestine, etc are not listed.P F Tinmore, et al,
Help me out here. When did General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 come into force as International Law?
Help me out here. When did anything in the Middle East become a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT).
(REFERENCE)Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?P F Tinmore, et al,
That is an interesting question... A very interesting question!
(COMMENT)Where is the part where the Palestinians ceded land?P F Tinmore, et al,
You bring this up periodically, as it it is some revelation. A disreputable attempt to shift the credibility of someone. (You and everyone esle here knows what the intended meaning was.
(REFERENCE)
Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922As of mid-night 14/15 May 1948, the Mandate Authority ("Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate") was lifted and the Successor Government was designated (27 February 1948) as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) (After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine.).
PART I.
PRELIMINARY.
Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
(COMMENT)
It appears to me that your are just trying to twist the words (and the intent) by using the a technique of misdirection. It is not necessary that you do this. As long as everyone understands that Palestine was a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. That Palestine was once a territory administered under mandate (AKA: former Mandate Territory).
Actually, today, the State of Palestine has no borders at all.
The West Bank is encapsulated by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty boundary; and the Gaza Strip is encapsulated by the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty boundary. Neither Treaty hold any prejudice (without any loss or waiver of rights, afforded any people) towards the people called Palestinians. The Palestinians cannot use the boundary of the former (territory to which the) Mandate (applied).
The "Blue Line" has no bearing on today's Palestinians. S/RES/1701 (2006) reiterates its strong support, as recalled in all its previous relevant resolutions, for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized borders, as contemplated by the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949.
The "Green Line" was dissolved by Treaties. The UN Security Council Resolution 1559: End of Syrian Occupation of Lebanon, Disarmament of Militias, 2 September 2004, resolved that occupation.
The UN Security Council Resolution 1680: Delineation of Syrian-Lebanese Border, Disarmament of Hezbollah and other Militias, 17 May 2006 was, for the time being, resolved.
There has been all sorts of Diplomatic and political activity --- relative to the Borders to the countries adjacent to the Jewish State of Israel; but "nothing" involving the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?
I say that the Palestinians NEVER had effective control or sovereign control of any territory prior to 1988. And even then, it is a question as to whether they have sovereign control over anything now. They (the Palestinians) keep claiming that they are occupied territory. By definition, if the territory is occupied, then they do not effectively control and territory or have sovereignty over ayn land.
ANSWER: Never! The Palestinians never had any territory. The Arab Palestinians had no authority or dominion over any territory.
The Jewish State of Israel exercised self-determination, having completed the UN Recommended Steps Preparatory to Independence, and in coordination with the successor government (UNPC) made the appropriate declaration by the required provisional government.
Most Respectfully,
R
Are you still pimping Israeli propaganda? You know that effective control is not the criterion for rights.
5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization)
The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).
The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.
(COMMENT)
There is no NSGT anywhere in the Middle East. Not only is the GA/RES/1514 (XV) NOT LAW, but even if it was, there is no applicable territory (relative to the Palestinians) for which this non-binding Resolution applies.
Most Respectfully,
R
Call Apartheid in Israel by Its Name
- Thread starter montelatici
- Start date
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
OK if you know better than the UN on the definition, then where is the list.
I think you are misinformed:
• Autonomous Regions of People's Republic of China: Guangxi, Nei Mongol, Ningxia, Xinjiang Uygur, Xizang (Tibet)
• Kashmir is a militarized territorial dispute.
• Palestine is a disputed partition; and conflict initiated by the Arab League in 1948.
Most Respectfully,
R
OK if you know better than the UN on the definition, then where is the list.
(COMMENT)This is not a comprehensive list of NSGTs. Tibet, Kashmir, Palestine, etc are not listed.P F Tinmore, et al,
Help me out here. When did General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 come into force as International Law?
Help me out here. When did anything in the Middle East become a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT).
(REFERENCE)Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?P F Tinmore, et al,
That is an interesting question... A very interesting question!
(COMMENT)Where is the part where the Palestinians ceded land?P F Tinmore, et al,
You bring this up periodically, as it it is some revelation. A disreputable attempt to shift the credibility of someone. (You and everyone esle here knows what the intended meaning was.
(REFERENCE)
Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922As of mid-night 14/15 May 1948, the Mandate Authority ("Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate") was lifted and the Successor Government was designated (27 February 1948) as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) (After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine.).
PART I.
PRELIMINARY.
Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
(COMMENT)
It appears to me that your are just trying to twist the words (and the intent) by using the a technique of misdirection. It is not necessary that you do this. As long as everyone understands that Palestine was a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. That Palestine was once a territory administered under mandate (AKA: former Mandate Territory).
Actually, today, the State of Palestine has no borders at all.
The West Bank is encapsulated by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty boundary; and the Gaza Strip is encapsulated by the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty boundary. Neither Treaty hold any prejudice (without any loss or waiver of rights, afforded any people) towards the people called Palestinians. The Palestinians cannot use the boundary of the former (territory to which the) Mandate (applied).
The "Blue Line" has no bearing on today's Palestinians. S/RES/1701 (2006) reiterates its strong support, as recalled in all its previous relevant resolutions, for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized borders, as contemplated by the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949.
The "Green Line" was dissolved by Treaties. The UN Security Council Resolution 1559: End of Syrian Occupation of Lebanon, Disarmament of Militias, 2 September 2004, resolved that occupation.
The UN Security Council Resolution 1680: Delineation of Syrian-Lebanese Border, Disarmament of Hezbollah and other Militias, 17 May 2006 was, for the time being, resolved.
There has been all sorts of Diplomatic and political activity --- relative to the Borders to the countries adjacent to the Jewish State of Israel; but "nothing" involving the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?
I say that the Palestinians NEVER had effective control or sovereign control of any territory prior to 1988. And even then, it is a question as to whether they have sovereign control over anything now. They (the Palestinians) keep claiming that they are occupied territory. By definition, if the territory is occupied, then they do not effectively control and territory or have sovereignty over ayn land.
ANSWER: Never! The Palestinians never had any territory. The Arab Palestinians had no authority or dominion over any territory.
The Jewish State of Israel exercised self-determination, having completed the UN Recommended Steps Preparatory to Independence, and in coordination with the successor government (UNPC) made the appropriate declaration by the required provisional government.
Most Respectfully,
R
Are you still pimping Israeli propaganda? You know that effective control is not the criterion for rights.
5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization)
The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).
The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.
(COMMENT)
There is no NSGT anywhere in the Middle East. Not only is the GA/RES/1514 (XV) NOT LAW, but even if it was, there is no applicable territory (relative to the Palestinians) for which this non-binding Resolution applies.
Most Respectfully,
R
I think you are misinformed:
• Autonomous Regions of People's Republic of China: Guangxi, Nei Mongol, Ningxia, Xinjiang Uygur, Xizang (Tibet)
• Kashmir is a militarized territorial dispute.
• Palestine is a disputed partition; and conflict initiated by the Arab League in 1948.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,390
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Whose dispute?
Whose partition?
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
OK, I know you haven't heard much about this region conflict.
• Whose dispute: In February 1948 the Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration:
That before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
• Whose partition: In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation declared the following:
The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
Most Respectfully,
R
OK, I know you haven't heard much about this region conflict.
(ANSWER)
• Whose dispute: In February 1948 the Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration:
That before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
• Whose partition: In February 1948 the Arab Higher Committee Delegation declared the following:
The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
Most Respectfully,
R
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure its only plagiarism if I don't tell you Rocco that I stole your last and posted a snipet on another forum.
And thank you for another very informative post. I cache much of the information you post ;--)
And the appropriate term for the accusation of apartheid in Israel is bullshit.
And thank you for another very informative post. I cache much of the information you post ;--)
And the appropriate term for the accusation of apartheid in Israel is bullshit.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,390
- 4,876
- 1,815
The Palestinians had every right to reject the Partition of their country. And they did stop the plan. It was never implemented.
Neither the Mandate nor resolution 181 changed Palestine's legal status. It was still a non self governing territory. A legal entity as the British described it.
Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
- 16,218
- 3,635
- 290
By saying that you are arguing against the rights of peoples to self-determination. You are saying that people have the right to reject the self-determination of another group. Is that really what you want to argue?
This is not a comprehensive list of NSGTs. Tibet, Kashmir, Palestine, etc are not listed.P F Tinmore, et al,
Help me out here. When did General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 come into force as International Law?
Help me out here. When did anything in the Middle East become a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT).
(REFERENCE)Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?P F Tinmore, et al,
That is an interesting question... A very interesting question!
(COMMENT)Where is the part where the Palestinians ceded land?P F Tinmore, et al,
You bring this up periodically, as it it is some revelation. A disreputable attempt to shift the credibility of someone. (You and everyone esle here knows what the intended meaning was.
(REFERENCE)
Palestine Order in Council 10 August 1922As of mid-night 14/15 May 1948, the Mandate Authority ("Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate") was lifted and the Successor Government was designated (27 February 1948) as the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) (After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine.).
PART I.
PRELIMINARY.
Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
(COMMENT)
It appears to me that your are just trying to twist the words (and the intent) by using the a technique of misdirection. It is not necessary that you do this. As long as everyone understands that Palestine was a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. That Palestine was once a territory administered under mandate (AKA: former Mandate Territory).
Actually, today, the State of Palestine has no borders at all.
The West Bank is encapsulated by the Israeli-Jordanian Treaty boundary; and the Gaza Strip is encapsulated by the Israeli-Egyptian Treaty boundary. Neither Treaty hold any prejudice (without any loss or waiver of rights, afforded any people) towards the people called Palestinians. The Palestinians cannot use the boundary of the former (territory to which the) Mandate (applied).
The "Blue Line" has no bearing on today's Palestinians. S/RES/1701 (2006) reiterates its strong support, as recalled in all its previous relevant resolutions, for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized borders, as contemplated by the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949.
The "Green Line" was dissolved by Treaties. The UN Security Council Resolution 1559: End of Syrian Occupation of Lebanon, Disarmament of Militias, 2 September 2004, resolved that occupation.
The UN Security Council Resolution 1680: Delineation of Syrian-Lebanese Border, Disarmament of Hezbollah and other Militias, 17 May 2006 was, for the time being, resolved.
There has been all sorts of Diplomatic and political activity --- relative to the Borders to the countries adjacent to the Jewish State of Israel; but "nothing" involving the Hostile Arab Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
Just when did the Palestinians every have the effective control or sovereignty over any territory, that they had the ability to change the status of the land?
I say that the Palestinians NEVER had effective control or sovereign control of any territory prior to 1988. And even then, it is a question as to whether they have sovereign control over anything now. They (the Palestinians) keep claiming that they are occupied territory. By definition, if the territory is occupied, then they do not effectively control and territory or have sovereignty over ayn land.
ANSWER: Never! The Palestinians never had any territory. The Arab Palestinians had no authority or dominion over any territory.
The Jewish State of Israel exercised self-determination, having completed the UN Recommended Steps Preparatory to Independence, and in coordination with the successor government (UNPC) made the appropriate declaration by the required provisional government.
Most Respectfully,
R
Are you still pimping Israeli propaganda? You know that effective control is not the criterion for rights.
5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration
Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization)
The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples (also known as the Special Committee on decolonization or C-24), the United Nations entity exclusively devoted to the issue of decolonization, was established in 1961 by the General Assembly with the purpose of monitoring the implementation of the Declaration (General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960).
The Special Committee annually reviews the list of Territories to which the Declaration is applicable and makes recommendations as to its implementation. It also hears statements from NSGTs representatives, dispatches visiting missions, and organizes seminars on the political, social and economic situation in the Territories. Further, the Special Committee annually makes recommendations concerning the dissemination of information to mobilize public opinion in support of the decolonization process, and observes the Week of Solidarity with the Peoples of Non-Self-Governing Territories.
(COMMENT)
There is no NSGT anywhere in the Middle East. Not only is the GA/RES/1514 (XV) NOT LAW, but even if it was, there is no applicable territory (relative to the Palestinians) for which this non-binding Resolution applies.
Most Respectfully,
R
Maybe because they are not NSGT's outside of your wild imagination.
But once again you ignore the most pertinent fact that you are trying once again to use UN resolutions as International law, and then to use them retrospectively.
The indigenous residents of course, and the partition was the one imposed by the sovereign rulers in 1920 to placate the arab muslims.
When was it declared their country then as it never existed under the Ottomans as a country and the LoN never declared it a country under their sovereign rule.
It had no legal status to change other than to become two entities' a Jewish Palestine and an arab Palestine. After 1948 it ceased to be a NSGT as it became ruled by the people who lived there. In 1967 the people who lived in arab Palestine instigated a war and were beaten back so the land became occupied, but still governed by the people who lived there. Then in 1970 the people decided to make a violent coup and steal the land for themselves, they failed and the governing body cast them adrift. In 1988 the people declared independence so becoming a self governing occupied territory.
You really need to stop reading islamonazi and neo Marxist propaganda rubbish. Just look at the undisputed facts and not the fantasy you have built
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
This may have been partially true in 1948; but it certainly does not answer the two questions you posed.
(COMMENT)
You asked "whose dispute" and "whose partition." And i answered both question in the reality of 1948. And it has not changed much since then.
As far as "implementation goes," you are not being honest. In the May 1948 UN Official Press Release, from the Headquarters and the Successor Government of Palestine, says something ENTIRELY different. The question is: are you challenging what was said? "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
EXCERPT from UN DOCUMENT DATABASE UNISPAL
As far as the recommendations of the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (II), you simply cannot deny the existence of something that actually happened. You cannot deny the Resolution any more than you can deny the Sunrise. It is a matter of record. You may deny reality, as a way to avoid the psychologically uncomfortable truth that both Israel and the 1988 Palestine cited UN General Assembly Resolution 181(II) in their documentation announcing independence. But that does not change the weather or roll back the clock.
LETTER from the Permanent Palestinian Observer March 1999
I would like you to take note that the Palestinian Permanent Observer made note that:
For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a corpus separatum, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II), as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.
Israel must comply with United Nations resolutions. It has no power to unilaterally annul any of those resolutions, particularly such a historic resolution as 181 (II). Israel's claim that the resolution is "null and void" is illegal, and it is also inadmissible given the history of the matter.
It is also important to note that, even today, the Palestine Liberation Organization - Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD) still makes mention of the reality:
• In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the partitioning of Palestine, against the wishes of the majority of our inhabitants. The Partition Plan allocated 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state. At the time, the Jewish population living in Palestine represented only one third of the total population and owned less than seven percent of the land.
• Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
You cannot use something that did not exist as evidence to in the territorial dispute. Now it is possible to claim that because of the Arab League aggressive military intervention to prevent implementation, the entire accomplishment of the resolution (non-binding)... You can argue that the "neighboring Arab armies" which attempted to undermine the UN Recommendations, had an adverse impact and changed the optimum outcome. But you cannot claim that Israel did not attempt to implement the 1947 Partition Recommendation; that would be denialism.
Most Respectfully,
R
This may have been partially true in 1948; but it certainly does not answer the two questions you posed.
(COMMENT)
You asked "whose dispute" and "whose partition." And i answered both question in the reality of 1948. And it has not changed much since then.
As far as "implementation goes," you are not being honest. In the May 1948 UN Official Press Release, from the Headquarters and the Successor Government of Palestine, says something ENTIRELY different. The question is: are you challenging what was said? "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
EXCERPT from UN DOCUMENT DATABASE UNISPAL
As far as the recommendations of the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (II), you simply cannot deny the existence of something that actually happened. You cannot deny the Resolution any more than you can deny the Sunrise. It is a matter of record. You may deny reality, as a way to avoid the psychologically uncomfortable truth that both Israel and the 1988 Palestine cited UN General Assembly Resolution 181(II) in their documentation announcing independence. But that does not change the weather or roll back the clock.
LETTER from the Permanent Palestinian Observer March 1999
I would like you to take note that the Palestinian Permanent Observer made note that:
For the Palestinian side, and since the strategic decision to forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable. The resolution provides the legal basis for the existence of both the Jewish and the Arab States in Mandated Palestine. According to the resolution, Jerusalem should become a corpus separatum, which the Palestinian side is willing to take into consideration and to reconcile with the Palestinian position that East Jerusalem is part of the Palestinian territory and the capital of the Palestinian State. The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II), as well as Security Council resolution 242 (1967), the implementation of which is the aim of the current Middle East peace process.
Israel must comply with United Nations resolutions. It has no power to unilaterally annul any of those resolutions, particularly such a historic resolution as 181 (II). Israel's claim that the resolution is "null and void" is illegal, and it is also inadmissible given the history of the matter.
It is also important to note that, even today, the Palestine Liberation Organization - Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD) still makes mention of the reality:
• In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly recommended the partitioning of Palestine, against the wishes of the majority of our inhabitants. The Partition Plan allocated 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state. At the time, the Jewish population living in Palestine represented only one third of the total population and owned less than seven percent of the land.
• Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,390
- 4,876
- 1,815
In this regard, the Plan provided that: “States whose nationals have in the past enjoyed in Palestine the privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of consular jurisdiction and protection, as formerly enjoyed by capitulation or usage in the Ottoman Empire, are invited to renounce any right pertaining to them to there-establishment of such privileges and immunities in the proposed Arab and Jewish States and the City of Jerusalem”. As the United Nations Partition Plan was never implemented,...
https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
---------------------https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
GARes181 never went to the Security Council for approval, therefore, it remained as a 'recommendation'.
The reason why the General Assembly Resolution 181 never went to the Security Council for consideration was because it implied that if it were to be approved by the Security Council, then it would require military force to implement it, considering the Zionist position at that time.
UN Resolution 181 - 1948
------------------------The reason why the General Assembly Resolution 181 never went to the Security Council for consideration was because it implied that if it were to be approved by the Security Council, then it would require military force to implement it, considering the Zionist position at that time.
UN Resolution 181 - 1948
Resolution 181 has no legal ramifications that is, Resolution 181 recognized the Jewish right to statehood, but its validity as a potentially legal and binding document was never consummated. Like the proposals that preceded it, Resolution 181‟s validity hinged on acceptance by both parties of the General Assembly‟s recommendation.
Some thought the Partition plan could be revived, but by the end of the war, Resolution 181 had become a moot issue...
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
-----------------------Some thought the Partition plan could be revived, but by the end of the war, Resolution 181 had become a moot issue...
http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-181.pdf
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,390
- 4,876
- 1,815
It is true that the the UN General Assembly does not make law. They do, however, reference existing international law, i.e. laws that already existed prior to the resolution.
3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the
Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to
self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national
unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to
self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national
unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
- 86,390
- 4,876
- 1,815
In a broader international legal context, the “Nationality law... showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship”.
Indeed, Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constituted the legal bond which connected individuals to collectively form a people as an element of a state.
In conclusion, Palestinian nationality was first founded on 6 August 1924, “and treaty nationality in Palestine runs from that date”. The Treaty of Lausanne had transformed the de facto status of, and practice relating to, Palestinian nationality into de jure existence from an international law angle.
https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
Indeed, Palestinian nationality, like any other nationality, constituted the legal bond which connected individuals to collectively form a people as an element of a state.
In conclusion, Palestinian nationality was first founded on 6 August 1924, “and treaty nationality in Palestine runs from that date”. The Treaty of Lausanne had transformed the de facto status of, and practice relating to, Palestinian nationality into de jure existence from an international law angle.
https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf
What do you have that says they are not?
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
Yeah, I've seen this all before.
I'll make a couple of points and then let is go.
The "International Law Foundation is NOT a court. "It is a 21st Century creation --- a "nongovernmental organization (NGO) that assists post-conflict and transitional countries in establishing public defender systems that provide effective, quality criminal defense services for the poor."
Although it sounds very official, it has no legal standing what so ever.
I don't think I claimed that it was, or ever needed, UN Security Council Approval. However, that does not change the question to the argument : Did it exist? AND it does not change the fact that the Jewish Agency and the Provisional Government, still followed the the official "RESOLUTION ADOPTED ON THE REPORT OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON 'THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION."
(COMMENT)
This is just so wrong on so may levels. But needless to say, the Successor Government (the UN Palestine Commission) operated on the adopted set of rules.
14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council May consider necessary to issue. The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly,shall become immèdiately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council. The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, ta the Security Council.
15. The Commission shaIl make its final report ta the next regular session of the General Assembly and to the Security Council simultaneously.
As long as the Provisional Israeli Government followed and declared independence according to the Recommended and Adopted Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is what it is. In the absence of guidance to the contrary --- from the Security Council to the Successor Government (UNPC) --- the Declaration of Independence followed the UN Guidance Recommended by the General Assembly. No where in the Resolution does the Resolution have to go to the security Council for approval. It says:
The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.
(COMMENT)
A recommendation does not need to be "consummated." I've heard you say that before, but that that is nowhere in the Charter. No General Assembly recommendation by Resolution needs anything more. Just as it is if you give someone advise or a recommendation. It doesn't need any other approval.
The pro-Palestinians have no coherent voice with one platform or political position. And like may issues, this understanding of the importance of GA/RES/181(II) is no exception. Arab Palestinians have this tendency to shift or change positions whenever and where ever it best suits them. Just as I have shown here where the official Palestinian position is one thing, you of course, have to find some NGO that states something else. It is what it is. Just remember:
You can't alter the history that the Arab Higher Committee rejected the Resolution and then threaten to use force to achieve what they could not achieve in diplomacy.
You cannot roll back the clock and reword either:
Most Respectfully,
R
Yeah, I've seen this all before.
I'll make a couple of points and then let is go.
(COMMENT)The "International Law Foundation is NOT a court. "It is a 21st Century creation --- a "nongovernmental organization (NGO) that assists post-conflict and transitional countries in establishing public defender systems that provide effective, quality criminal defense services for the poor."
Although it sounds very official, it has no legal standing what so ever.
(COMMENT)I don't think I claimed that it was, or ever needed, UN Security Council Approval. However, that does not change the question to the argument : Did it exist? AND it does not change the fact that the Jewish Agency and the Provisional Government, still followed the the official "RESOLUTION ADOPTED ON THE REPORT OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON 'THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION."
(COMMENT)
This is just so wrong on so may levels. But needless to say, the Successor Government (the UN Palestine Commission) operated on the adopted set of rules.
14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council May consider necessary to issue. The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly,shall become immèdiately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council. The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, ta the Security Council.
15. The Commission shaIl make its final report ta the next regular session of the General Assembly and to the Security Council simultaneously.
As long as the Provisional Israeli Government followed and declared independence according to the Recommended and Adopted Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is what it is. In the absence of guidance to the contrary --- from the Security Council to the Successor Government (UNPC) --- the Declaration of Independence followed the UN Guidance Recommended by the General Assembly. No where in the Resolution does the Resolution have to go to the security Council for approval. It says:
The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.
(COMMENT)
A recommendation does not need to be "consummated." I've heard you say that before, but that that is nowhere in the Charter. No General Assembly recommendation by Resolution needs anything more. Just as it is if you give someone advise or a recommendation. It doesn't need any other approval.
The pro-Palestinians have no coherent voice with one platform or political position. And like may issues, this understanding of the importance of GA/RES/181(II) is no exception. Arab Palestinians have this tendency to shift or change positions whenever and where ever it best suits them. Just as I have shown here where the official Palestinian position is one thing, you of course, have to find some NGO that states something else. It is what it is. Just remember:
You can't alter the history that the Arab Higher Committee rejected the Resolution and then threaten to use force to achieve what they could not achieve in diplomacy.
You cannot roll back the clock and reword either:
• The 1948 Declaration of Israeli Independence using the recommendation of Resolution 181(II).
• The 1988 Declaration of Independence used by the PLO an stating:
∆∆ Despite the historical injustice inflicted on the Palestinian Arab people resulting in their dispersion and depriving them of their right to self-determination, following upon UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.
• You cannot erase Palestinian Position in 1999 that "The Palestinian side adheres to international legitimacy and respects General Assembly resolution 181 (II)."
Now, there is no doubt that the complete intent of the Resolution was not achieved. But that is not for the lack of the Israeli's trying. The failure to achieve all the desired outcomes of the Resolution was a direct result Arab League trying (and failing) to alter the right of the Israelis to implement the right of self-determination (which did not then --- and --- does not now require Security Council approval). All people, not just the Arab Palestinians --- BUT --- all people have the right to self-determination.• The 1988 Declaration of Independence used by the PLO an stating:
∆∆ Despite the historical injustice inflicted on the Palestinian Arab people resulting in their dispersion and depriving them of their right to self-determination, following upon UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
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The 1948 Declaration of Israeli Independence using the recommendation of Resolution 181(II).
Big fat lie. Israel violated almost every part of resolution 181 even before its declaration.
P F Tinmore
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Requests that
The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;
The Avalon Project : UN General Assembly Resolution 181
The Security Council take the necessary measures as provided for in the plan for its implementation;
The Avalon Project : UN General Assembly Resolution 181
The UNPC was not mentioned.
Where was the UNPC when they were to protect the people and territory of Palestine?
So this means that Palestine doesn't have a right to exist then either, does it.
As you have been shown by official UN documents 181 was implemented as in was and either or recommendation, which means that it only took one party to agree and the recommendation was fulfilled
Your first link is not valid as it is islamonazi propaganda
Your second link is also islamonazi propaganda
Link three has this to say
In the late 1990s, more than 50 years after Resolution 181 was rejected by the Arab world, Arab leaders suddenly recommended to the General Assembly that UN Resolution 181 be resurrected as the basis for a peace agreement. There is no foundation for such a notion.
Care to answer the question ?
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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Palestine already existed.
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