Cali Supreme Court upholds Prop 8

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SAN FRANCISCO —

The California Supreme Court has upheld a voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, but it also decided that the estimated 18,000 gay couples who tied the knot before the law took effect will stay wed.

Calif high court upholds gay marriage ban - Quincy, MA - The Patriot Ledger

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"People have a right through the ballot box to change the constitution" is what I hear the opion says.

Hmmmm, I guess the arguments around whether the ballot initiative amended the constitution or revised it will be carried further if possible. Otherwise gay marriage proponents are going to have to play the ballot initiative game until they win...then the opponents of that can play the ballot intitiative game until they win...then...

I always thought amendments came through the process of a constitutional convention---that is until I moved out here to the liberal west coast.

go figure

 

[Oddball]

"People have a right through the ballot box to change the constitution" is what I hear the opion says.

Hmmmm, I guess the arguments around whether the ballot initiative amended the constitution or revised it will be carried further if possible. Otherwise gay marriage proponents are going to have to play the ballot initiative game until they win...then the opponents of that can play the ballot intitiative game until they win...then...

I always thought amendments came through the process of a constitutional convention---that is until I moved out here to the liberal west coast.

go figure

Not in states like Fornicalia and Colorado.

It's a messy business having mob rule decide what your state constitution sez, but that's how some of them set it up.

 

[midcan5]

Damn, rather sad that the people can vote your rights away, hopefully no one will tell the people in....

 

[Oddball]

Damn, rather sad, that the people can vote your rights away, hopefully not one will tell the people in.....

A license, by definition (this issue is about the issuance of state marriage licenses, not the right of free adults to enter into contractual agreements), isn't a right....It's permission.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Socially insignificant thousands fainted. Before slipping into well deserved public insignificance thousands will try again.

 

[Ravi]

Kind of weird that the people most responsible for Prop 8 are Mormons and blacks...I suppose it is fashionable once again to be a bigot.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Ravi--
That, too, is bigotted.

The point is that when a minority forces their will on the majority we have tyranny of the minority. Despite all the hysterics, the gay community is nothing more than another minority - among many in our pluralistic society. They deserve nothing more than anyone else and certainly do not deserve to change our society or laws to suit their narrow purposes.

This will probably result in more screaming and hand wringing on this board. So be it.

 

[chrismac]

Even after the gay marriage advocates tried to subvert the will of the People (for a second time), the Judges upheld it 6-1. What I wonder is, why would they think Prop 8 would be a revision over an amendment if the CA SC didn't keep it off the ballot last summer when they petitioned them to?

 

[Ravi]

Ravi--
That, too, is bigotted.

The point is that when a minority forces their will on the majority we have tyranny of the minority. Despite all the hysterics, the gay community is nothing more than another minority - among many in our pluralistic society. They deserve nothing more than anyone else and certainly do not deserve to change our society or laws to suit their narrow purposes.

This will probably result in more screaming and hand wringing on this board. So be it.

We obviously look at it differently. Since marriage is a right (as ruled by SCOTUS) then denying any two people of consenting age that right is not something that can or should be voted upon.

 

[Oddball]

Since marriage is a right (as ruled by SCOTUS) ......

Even though marriage may be a right, a state license -by definition- for anything is not a right.....It's 3rd party statutory permission.

Noting is preventing gays, or straights for that matter, from drawing up their own common law marriage contracts.

 

[Nik]

Damn, rather sad, that the people can vote your rights away, hopefully not one will tell the people in.....

A license, by definition (this issue is about the issuance of state marriage licenses, not the right of free adults to enter into contractual agreements), isn't a right....It's permission.

Being treated equally despite your gender or sexual orientation when under consideration for state privileges, is a right.

 

[Coyote]

Ravi--
That, too, is bigotted.

The point is that when a minority forces their will on the majority we have tyranny of the minority. Despite all the hysterics, the gay community is nothing more than another minority - among many in our pluralistic society. They deserve nothing more than anyone else and certainly do not deserve to change our society or laws to suit their narrow purposes.

This will probably result in more screaming and hand wringing on this board. So be it.

Does the majority have the right to limit the rights of a minority - rights that they themselves enjoy?

I don't think it's good that a majority vote can take rights away from a minority.

 

[jgbkab]

What is the difference between same sex marriages and same sex unions? Is it only the word marriage because I thought that was a religious term?

 

[Oddball]

Being treated equally despite your gender or sexual orientation when under consideration for state privileges, is a right.

No matter the context, a license -which is what all this is about- is permission, by the word's very definition.

If it's a privilege, it ain't a right.

 

[Yurt]

Ravi--
That, too, is bigotted.

The point is that when a minority forces their will on the majority we have tyranny of the minority. Despite all the hysterics, the gay community is nothing more than another minority - among many in our pluralistic society. They deserve nothing more than anyone else and certainly do not deserve to change our society or laws to suit their narrow purposes.

This will probably result in more screaming and hand wringing on this board. So be it.

We obviously look at it differently. Since marriage is a right (as ruled by SCOTUS) then denying any two people of consenting age that right is not something that can or should be voted upon.

do you really mean that? any two people....relationship of people does not matter....

 

[Yurt]

Since marriage is a right (as ruled by SCOTUS) ......

Even though marriage may be a right, a state license -by definition- for anything is not a right.....It's 3rd party statutory permission.

Noting is preventing gays, or straights for that matter, from drawing up their own common law marriage contracts.

interesting observation. how do you reconcile marriage being a fundamental right with the statutory permission? iow, are all licenses equal? i'm not sure you can compare a mere license, such as a driver's license, with a marriage license.

common law marriage contracts will not give gays equal rights under california law when it comes to marriage. married people have different rights, see the federal DOMA....

 

[Oddball]

interesting observation. how do you reconcile marriage being a fundamental right with the statutory permission? iow, are all licenses equal? i'm not sure you can compare a mere license, such as a driver's license, with a marriage license.

Because statutory marriage is not a fundamental right....If it were, the statutory permission models wouldn't hold up in court...If they ever in fact have been challenged.

The fundamental right is that to contract, per Article 1, Section 10.

common law marriage contracts will not give gays equal rights under california law when it comes to marriage. married people have different rights, see the federal DOMA....

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.....Article 1, Section 10 has been neither overturned nor not upheld as such.

Statutorily married couples (as opposed to those in common law) have special rights because they have entered into the statutory jurisdiction, hence the license, out of common law jurisdiction....In most cases, by ruse, naivete and/or compulsion.

 

[Yurt]

have you read loving v. virginia?

 

[Nik]

Being treated equally despite your gender or sexual orientation when under consideration for state privileges, is a right.

No matter the context, a license -which is what all this is about- is permission, by the word's very definition.

If it's a privilege, it ain't a right.

Incorrect. A marriage license is a privilege. But you can have a right to that privilege, if it is denied you for discriminatory reasons.