Cains 9-9-9 Plan: 5 Reasons to reject it

The thing won't get passed in the congress. If republicans are lucky we will get 3-4 seats in 2012 in the senate. This means 51-52 seats and the democrats will filibusterer the hell out of it for Cains entire term. McCain, Snow, Colins will vote it down too. Who knows who else...The house may not even pass it. I believe it is dead in the congress.

What I don't like about Cain is that he says his 999 plan is bold... fuck, I can come up with a "bold" tax plan if I could have it my way... But to get congress to pass it is another thing. So in the end this is where I feel Cain's lack of political experience would make him a useless President, as it has to Obama. Everyone else on that Republican stage understands you have to move the tax code in steps, some steps can be big, some small but you can't just say "I'm President lets push the restart button because I wana..."

Many Reps won't like adding a income tax, all Democrats will hate it because it's Republican (that's ok it works both ways). So how does Cain plan to get it passed? Not to mention Cain seems to be very inaccurate about its revenue.
 
So if Cain claims the plan is revenue neutral, doesn't that mean he's running on the belief that Americans do not need their taxes cut from the current level?

Appears so.

Also, since he claims it's revenue neutral, it seems he thinks it's more important where we get the revenue as opposed to how much of it we get. Which is odd, since he's a former businessman.
 
So if Cain claims the plan is revenue neutral, doesn't that mean he's running on the belief that Americans do not need their taxes cut from the current level?

Kills two birds with one stone

Cuts taxes on the wealthy without having to worry about pesky poor people

Why didn't republicans think of this before?
 
National sales tax sucks. Really.

The income tax sucks. Really.

A national consumption tax might be just the ticket to unburden ourselves from the monstrosity we call the IRS.

I'm not talking about you Matthew, but it does occur to me that the Hopey Changey crowd is awfully resistant to actual change.

do you actually think that if we get a national sales tax that the income tax will go away?
that is very hopey changey.
 
The thing won't get passed in the congress. If republicans are lucky we will get 3-4 seats in 2012 in the senate. This means 51-52 seats and the democrats will filibusterer the hell out of it for Cains entire term. McCain, Snow, Colins will vote it down too. Who knows who else...The house may not even pass it. I believe it is dead in the congress.

Even if the GOP had a Senate majority, the plan would fail – it’s that idiotic.
 
National sales tax sucks. Really.

The income tax sucks. Really.

A national consumption tax might be just the ticket to unburden ourselves from the monstrosity we call the IRS.

I'm not talking about you Matthew, but it does occur to me that the Hopey Changey crowd is awfully resistant to actual change.

do you actually think that if we get a national sales tax that the income tax will go away?
that is very hopey changey.

No, SitnSpin. That's why I happen to favor a Constitutional Amendment rescinding the 16th Amendment as a pre-condition to the imposition of a national consumption tax.

Short of that happening fast enough, I am ok with the notion of bringing the change in somewhat incrementally.

Why on Earth would anybody support this massive clusterfuck Tax "system" we currently have in place?
 
Cain is done, by that I mean he will start slowly decending in the polls.

I think it will be the Perry effect; once you start really looking at what he stood for, you don't like it much. If what I am reading here from his supporters is true; he looks like toast to me; a tax on everything you buy on top of the State and Local tax along with an income tax on top of that? And the republicans (at least some) are for that? I doubt he's built to last.

Huntsman may be the guy who ends up on top.
 
If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

and monkeys just might fly out of my butt, but i'm not counting on it.
 
If the guy that owns the restaurant is charging you (not counting any tip) say $100.00 for a fine meal with your date/spouse, what portion of that do you guys imagine constitutes the increased cost of every bit of that service caused by taxation? His building? Taxed? The wages he pays his employees? Taxed. The electricity he buys? Taxed. The other fuel? Taxed? The food itself, purchased wholesale? Taxed.

You are paying for that meal and a lot of the cost to you is to cover all the otehr assorted taxes that guy had to shell out.

But if you have a consumption tax, those amounts can be pretty well accounted for in advance, and the time spent on calculating taxes, and filling out forms, etc., etc., etc., will NO LONGER be included since such things no longer have to exist.

It might just be that if we went that route, the net cost to consumers would go down.

and monkeys just might fly out of my butt, but i'm not counting on it.

Depends on what's been up your butt. :eusa_whistle:

Anyway, I don't see why it is so difficult to believe that the proposal (if enacted exactly as currently proposed) would lead to net savings. The savings in man-hours alone (for tax preparation and accounting) would be major for many big companies. Saving that kind of expense and not having to engage in the additional time and expense of strategic tax planning and plotting would enable the companies to go about the business of DOING their business.

Abolishing the IRS is a laudable outcome in its OWN right.

There is virtually nothing in the current system that is worth defending.

So, I remain all FOR changing it.

The 9-9-9 Plan is not my favorite method. But I'd take it in a new York minute if we could eliminate the IRS.

And if we could jump start the consumption tax by rescinding the 16th Amendment to RE-PROHIBIT an income tax, that would be even that much better.
 
The problem for Cain in the Republican domain is the far right Christians. 9-9-9 plan inverted is 6-6-6 and those of the religious right see that as described in Revelations 13:17-18
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I can just hear the the murmurs start in the churches across this land and doom Cains plans. In politics, it isn't the substance but the fluff that drives campaigns. Most people have not even paid attention yet to the election.
 
The problem for Cain in the Republican domain is the far right Christians. 9-9-9 plan inverted is 6-6-6 and those of the religious right see that as described in Revelations 13:17-18
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I can just hear the the murmurs start in the churches across this land and doom Cains plans. In politics, it isn't the substance but the fluff that drives campaigns. Most people have not even paid attention yet to the election.

Such silliness.
 
The problem for Cain in the Republican domain is the far right Christians. 9-9-9 plan inverted is 6-6-6 and those of the religious right see that as described in Revelations 13:17-18
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

I can just hear the the murmurs start in the churches across this land and doom Cains plans. In politics, it isn't the substance but the fluff that drives campaigns. Most people have not even paid attention yet to the election.

Such silliness.

It is silly but some people believe anything!
 
Except you aren't factoring in that he would be paying 0% for his capital gains under this 9-9-9 plan. Which would drastically lower his already low overall % rate.

At 9%, i would make it on ALL income, even captial gains. If you made it in the year, it gets 9% lopped off. If you buy something besides food, it costs 9% more. When a corporation reports its profits, 9% of that.

The beauty of the flat tax is that it doesnt matter if the company reports extra income as profits, or pays it out to some CEO/CFO. The governments cut is 9% no matter what, and since you get rid of all these deductions you are now unable to to hide money easily at the corportate level.

I would also add a rule that corporate profits only get taxes based on your sales in the US vs. Global, and we apply this to any company with sales in the US, or force them to make a US subsidiary for US sales. So if an american company makes 10 billion, and 80% of thier sales are in the US, they get taxed 9% on $8 billion straight up.

See but that is not true even for a second. Cain bullshit 999 plan just resets the tax code, then he decieds what the "new" deductions are... Meaning the whole dumb fucking cycle starts over, that's it.

Even Cain talks about "deductions" when he talks about his 999 plan. Deductions are the loop holes.

its still a plan in its infancy, and not even hashed out. The concept to me is sound, and simplfies things. it would be up to us to make sure it didnt turn into the old system.
 
The problem for Cain in the Republican domain is the far right Christians. 9-9-9 plan inverted is 6-6-6 and those of the religious right see that as described in Revelations 13:17-18

I can just hear the the murmurs start in the churches across this land and doom Cains plans. In politics, it isn't the substance but the fluff that drives campaigns. Most people have not even paid attention yet to the election.

Such silliness.

It is silly but some people believe anything!

No what you believe is silly... a tax code is not the mark of the beast... You don't know what you are talking about lets just leave it at that...

I love how atheists and agnostics always can diagnose a Christians beliefs and behavior better than a Christian.
 
So if Cain claims the plan is revenue neutral, doesn't that mean he's running on the belief that Americans do not need their taxes cut from the current level?

Appears so.

Also, since he claims it's revenue neutral, it seems he thinks it's more important where we get the revenue as opposed to how much of it we get. Which is odd, since he's a former businessman.

Government taxation is a lot more complex and takes a lot more into account than simple revenues and profit.
 
At 9%, i would make it on ALL income, even captial gains. If you made it in the year, it gets 9% lopped off. If you buy something besides food, it costs 9% more. When a corporation reports its profits, 9% of that.

The beauty of the flat tax is that it doesnt matter if the company reports extra income as profits, or pays it out to some CEO/CFO. The governments cut is 9% no matter what, and since you get rid of all these deductions you are now unable to to hide money easily at the corportate level.

I would also add a rule that corporate profits only get taxes based on your sales in the US vs. Global, and we apply this to any company with sales in the US, or force them to make a US subsidiary for US sales. So if an american company makes 10 billion, and 80% of thier sales are in the US, they get taxed 9% on $8 billion straight up.

See but that is not true even for a second. Cain bullshit 999 plan just resets the tax code, then he decieds what the "new" deductions are... Meaning the whole dumb fucking cycle starts over, that's it.

Even Cain talks about "deductions" when he talks about his 999 plan. Deductions are the loop holes.

its still a plan in its infancy, and not even hashed out. The concept to me is sound, and simplfies things. it would be up to us to make sure it didnt turn into the old system.

I think you're right on that mark. However, if Obama has taught us anything, it is that partisanship--the needlessly brain dead partisanship--is here to stay and you only really get one shot to do anything big. His was healthcare.
 

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