Cains 9-9-9 Plan: 5 Reasons to reject it

[Avorysuds]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

Soggy, you're a pretty cool guy and I'm telling you defending Cain's 999 plan (if that is what you're doing) will only backfire.

Cain asked people to run the numbers, they are and they all find Cain is wrong as in, he lies and keeps lying. In the end what are the odds Cain will get a tax plan that will be about as "WTF" scary as Obamacare to pass?

I think people should really use this time to look at the 0 policies Cain has on most issues and take that as a warning... Then look up his 9 9 9 plan as it is finally getting attention rather than just attack liberals. Cain is making the right look stupid imo.

 

[Avorysuds]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

You also need to realize that even though RW is a fucking idiot Cain is the one that claims the 999 plan would bring in the same amount of taxes as the current code, not RW. So in reality Cain is not only lying because it brings in less, he lies about who will be paying more.

 

[rightwinger]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

and this is a bad thing.....?


i don't like the 999 plan because it has both an income tax AND a national sales tax.....they need to have one or the other but not both....

OK

$200 billion in less revenue

Where are the spending cuts coming from? Let me guess?

The same working poor who are paying more in taxes

 

[RDD_1210]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

You also need to realize that even though RW is a fucking idiot Cain is the one that claims the 999 plan would bring in the same amount of taxes as the current code, not RW. So in reality Cain is not only lying because it brings in less, he lies about who will be paying more.

Holy shit I agree with something you've said.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue
"Cain claims his plan is revenue neutral," says Brian Montopoli at CBS News, but a Bloomberg analysis found that if the 9-9-9 regime were in place in 2010, the federal government would have collected $2 trillion in revenue — $200 billion less than what the current system produced

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

Soggy, you're a pretty cool guy and I'm telling you defending Cain's 999 plan (if that is what you're doing) will only backfire.

Cain asked people to run the numbers, they are and they all find Cain is wrong as in, he lies and keeps lying. In the end what are the odds Cain will get a tax plan that will be about as "WTF" scary as Obamacare to pass?

I think people should really use this time to look at the 0 policies Cain has on most issues and take that as a warning... Then look up his 9 9 9 plan as it is finally getting attention rather than just attack liberals. Cain is making the right look stupid imo.

Here's my points:

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue

This automatically assumes the what we're spending has to be spent, I disagree.

2. And it would open the door to dangerous new taxes

I tend to agree.

3. It's "shockingly regressive"

I have an issue with a hefty capital gains tax.... the same way I have issues with inheritance taxes. Let's stick with the direct tax on labor, ok? Almost everybody whould be paying something... we're playing a dangerous game when we have huge numbers of people voting, but no real skin in the game.

4. And probably unconstitutional

So, now were worried about this? If it is, then fine. But hey, seems like we just had a giant government program heaped upon us that is obviously unconstitutional, yet these same folks are ok with that.

5. Plus, the idea is a political non-starter

To who? Those who object? Well, DUH!

Looka, at least theman has put some thought into this that goes beyond "tax the rich". Anyway, his 9-9-9 plan is only a foundation that will surely morph... if elected. Cain doesn't seem to be the type to just shove this down our throats if there are serious objections.

 

[Avorysuds]

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

You also need to realize that even though RW is a fucking idiot Cain is the one that claims the 999 plan would bring in the same amount of taxes as the current code, not RW. So in reality Cain is not only lying because it brings in less, he lies about who will be paying more.

Holy shit I agree with something you've said.

Was bound to happen!

 

[martybegan]

3. It's "shockingly regressive"
When you look past its "silly optics," Cain's 9-9-9 plan would usher in "a huge tax increase on lower-income and middle-class Americans," says New York University tax law expert Daniel Shaviro at his blog. It's "shockingly regressive." Worse, "with no tax on capital gains, the rich" — who make much of their money from investments — "would pay almost nothing" in taxes,

The rich would pay when they buy that 10M dollar mansion, or that 250k car. Plus they would no longer be able to hide income via charitable donation, that 9% would be on anything they earn, with no real deductions.

Looking at buffet, he had 36M taxable income based on a total of 63M in gross income. He paid around $6M in taxes. The 9% plan gives him $5.6M in INCOME taxes, a deduction, but now you are hitting him for 9% of his purchasing power. Say he spends only $15M of the $36M he has after charitable donations, we get him for another $1.3 Million, an actual INCREASE in what he now pays.

Except you aren't factoring in that he would be paying 0% for his capital gains under this 9-9-9 plan. Which would drastically lower his already low overall % rate.

At 9%, i would make it on ALL income, even captial gains. If you made it in the year, it gets 9% lopped off. If you buy something besides food, it costs 9% more. When a corporation reports its profits, 9% of that.

The beauty of the flat tax is that it doesnt matter if the company reports extra income as profits, or pays it out to some CEO/CFO. The governments cut is 9% no matter what, and since you get rid of all these deductions you are now unable to to hide money easily at the corportate level.

I would also add a rule that corporate profits only get taxes based on your sales in the US vs. Global, and we apply this to any company with sales in the US, or force them to make a US subsidiary for US sales. So if an american company makes 10 billion, and 80% of thier sales are in the US, they get taxed 9% on $8 billion straight up.

 

[Avorysuds]

No plan will EVER confiscate enough of somebody else's money to keep you guys happy.

Soggy, you're a pretty cool guy and I'm telling you defending Cain's 999 plan (if that is what you're doing) will only backfire.

Cain asked people to run the numbers, they are and they all find Cain is wrong as in, he lies and keeps lying. In the end what are the odds Cain will get a tax plan that will be about as "WTF" scary as Obamacare to pass?

I think people should really use this time to look at the 0 policies Cain has on most issues and take that as a warning... Then look up his 9 9 9 plan as it is finally getting attention rather than just attack liberals. Cain is making the right look stupid imo.

Here's my points:

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue

This automatically assumes the what we're spending has to be spent, I disagree.

2. And it would open the door to dangerous new taxes

I tend to agree.

3. It's "shockingly regressive"

I have an issue with a hefty capital gains tax.... the same way I have issues with inheritance taxes. Let's stick with the direct tax on labor, ok? Almost everybody whould be paying something... we're playing a dangerous game when we have huge numbers of people voting, but no real skin in the game.

4. And probably unconstitutional

So, now were worried about this? If it is, then fine. But hey, seems like we just had a giant government program heaped upon us that is obviously unconstitutional, yet these same folks are ok with that.

5. Plus, the idea is a political non-starter

To who? Those who object? Well, DUH!

Looka, at least theman has put some thought into this that goes beyond "tax the rich". Anyway, his 9-9-9 plan is only a foundation that will surely morph... if elected. Cain doesn't seem to be the type to just shove this down our throats if there are serious objections.

That's fine, but in the end you just said you don't agree with Cain's 999 plan at all, in fact you said his 999 plan was on the level with Obamacare. Now you get to decide if you support Cain with that or not.

I agree with some of what you said but that does not change the fact that Cain lied about what he said. Yes we need to spend less and I'd like to see people pay their fair share, it would flip their world up side down about the realities of taxes. But that does not change the fact that Cain would be running a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit (or more) because of his “bold” tax policy.

Cain does not take about cuts, he talks about his 9 9 fucking 9 plan, a plan that it seems is turning out to be his word VS the rest of the worlds word that ran the numbers that he asked them to run... What would Cain do if the CBO ran the numbers and didn’t agree with him? Would Cain still say "this country is on life support... blah blah blah... bold, Cain, 999 plan... smile..."?

Again this is why I like Ron Paul, he has to give 7 hour lectures on subjects and some asshole calls him a “nutty grandpa.” Cain sells you a pizza coupon for a tax code and people freak the fuck out and get butt hurt when they find out they just got played.

At this point it takes a few seconds on google to see why the 999 plan is ass.

 

[Avorysuds]

The rich would pay when they buy that 10M dollar mansion, or that 250k car. Plus they would no longer be able to hide income via charitable donation, that 9% would be on anything they earn, with no real deductions.

Looking at buffet, he had 36M taxable income based on a total of 63M in gross income. He paid around $6M in taxes. The 9% plan gives him $5.6M in INCOME taxes, a deduction, but now you are hitting him for 9% of his purchasing power. Say he spends only $15M of the $36M he has after charitable donations, we get him for another $1.3 Million, an actual INCREASE in what he now pays.

Except you aren't factoring in that he would be paying 0% for his capital gains under this 9-9-9 plan. Which would drastically lower his already low overall % rate.

At 9%, i would make it on ALL income, even captial gains. If you made it in the year, it gets 9% lopped off. If you buy something besides food, it costs 9% more. When a corporation reports its profits, 9% of that.

The beauty of the flat tax is that it doesnt matter if the company reports extra income as profits, or pays it out to some CEO/CFO. The governments cut is 9% no matter what, and since you get rid of all these deductions you are now unable to to hide money easily at the corportate level.

I would also add a rule that corporate profits only get taxes based on your sales in the US vs. Global, and we apply this to any company with sales in the US, or force them to make a US subsidiary for US sales. So if an american company makes 10 billion, and 80% of thier sales are in the US, they get taxed 9% on $8 billion straight up.

See but that is not true even for a second. Cain bullshit 999 plan just resets the tax code, then he decieds what the "new" deductions are... Meaning the whole dumb fucking cycle starts over, that's it.

Even Cain talks about "deductions" when he talks about his 999 plan. Deductions are the loop holes.

 

[Avorysuds]

I know there are many links but this took only a few seconds, quick read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...math-is-wrong/2011/03/29/gIQAf1YZgL_blog.html

I know Cain would nevera gree with it, he would tell us why these things can't be done and all of a sudden his "simplistic" 999 plan has laws all over the place.

 

[Avorysuds]

I am starting to think that the only reason Cain is running is to help sell books, he want's to be the next Palin after the election.

a lot of people run just to fatten their wallets, by books or speeches....Cain isnt the first nor the last.

Oh I know.

 

[Trajan]

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan: 5 reasons to reject it - The Week

I wish you had chosen a site with a tad more heft, but I will play....



anyway. I don't like it because it lets the camels nose under the 'VAT lite' tent. It might stay 9% for oh, 2 change overs of the house, 4 years. Max.

 

[Avatar4321]

As a middle class blue collar earner on the verge of retirement, that plan would hurt me both now and after retirement. It is a non-starter. Just another plan for redistributing the nations wealth from the working poor and the middle class to the very wealthy.

Except it doesnt give any money to the wealthy. So that's totally bullcrap.

Hint: Taxing people at the same rate doesn't give money to anyone.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am starting to think that the only reason Cain is running is to help sell books, he want's to be the next Palin after the election.

a lot of people run just to fatten their wallets, by books or speeches....Cain isnt the first nor the last.

Yeah. Obama was one of them.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Soggy, you're a pretty cool guy and I'm telling you defending Cain's 999 plan (if that is what you're doing) will only backfire.

Cain asked people to run the numbers, they are and they all find Cain is wrong as in, he lies and keeps lying. In the end what are the odds Cain will get a tax plan that will be about as "WTF" scary as Obamacare to pass?

I think people should really use this time to look at the 0 policies Cain has on most issues and take that as a warning... Then look up his 9 9 9 plan as it is finally getting attention rather than just attack liberals. Cain is making the right look stupid imo.

Here's my points:

1. The plan wouldn't bring in enough revenue

This automatically assumes the what we're spending has to be spent, I disagree.

2. And it would open the door to dangerous new taxes

I tend to agree.

3. It's "shockingly regressive"

I have an issue with a hefty capital gains tax.... the same way I have issues with inheritance taxes. Let's stick with the direct tax on labor, ok? Almost everybody whould be paying something... we're playing a dangerous game when we have huge numbers of people voting, but no real skin in the game.

4. And probably unconstitutional

So, now were worried about this? If it is, then fine. But hey, seems like we just had a giant government program heaped upon us that is obviously unconstitutional, yet these same folks are ok with that.

5. Plus, the idea is a political non-starter

To who? Those who object? Well, DUH!

Looka, at least theman has put some thought into this that goes beyond "tax the rich". Anyway, his 9-9-9 plan is only a foundation that will surely morph... if elected. Cain doesn't seem to be the type to just shove this down our throats if there are serious objections.

That's fine, but in the end you just said you don't agree with Cain's 999 plan at all, in fact you said his 999 plan was on the level with Obamacare. Now you get to decide if you support Cain with that or not.

I agree with some of what you said but that does not change the fact that Cain lied about what he said. Yes we need to spend less and I'd like to see people pay their fair share, it would flip their world up side down about the realities of taxes. But that does not change the fact that Cain would be running a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit (or more) because of his “bold” tax policy.

Cain does not take about cuts, he talks about his 9 9 fucking 9 plan, a plan that it seems is turning out to be his word VS the rest of the worlds word that ran the numbers that he asked them to run... What would Cain do if the CBO ran the numbers and didn’t agree with him? Would Cain still say "this country is on life support... blah blah blah... bold, Cain, 999 plan... smile..."?

Again this is why I like Ron Paul, he has to give 7 hour lectures on subjects and some asshole calls him a “nutty grandpa.” Cain sells you a pizza coupon for a tax code and people freak the fuck out and get butt hurt when they find out they just got played.

At this point it takes a few seconds on google to see why the 999 plan is ass.

Well, that would be consistent as I'm not all in on it OR Cain. I'm waiting on him to tackle the big issue.. SPENDING.

We'll see.

 

[Avatar4321]

a lot of people run just to fatten their wallets, by books or speeches....Cain isnt the first nor the last.

Yeah. Obama was one of them.

uh no, see he won the white house. But keep posting stupid shit.

Yeah. Doesnt change anything. I highly doubt he thought you lefties would actually vote for him.

 

[MikeK]

3. It's "shockingly regressive"
When you look past its "silly optics," Cain's 9-9-9 plan would usher in "a huge tax increase on lower-income and middle-class Americans," says New York University tax law expert Daniel Shaviro at his blog. It's "shockingly regressive." Worse, "with no tax on capital gains, the rich" — who make much of their money from investments — "would pay almost nothing" in taxes,

The rich would pay when they buy that 10M dollar mansion,

Cain wants to apply his sales tax to real estate transactions?

Oh for fuck's sake...

Kingfish Cain's popularity is manifest evidence of the impressionable ignorance of a significant percentage of good and decent Americans.

 

[auditor0007]

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan: 5 reasons to reject it - The Week

I'll give you one reason to reject it. It's a fucking joke as is the man who came up with it.

 

[Avorysuds]

I think mahy of us had higher hopes for Cain, I know I did. It's a shit feeling when I think he did this to sell books, he wasted our time.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The thing won't get passed in the congress. If republicans are lucky we will get 3-4 seats in 2012 in the senate. This means 51-52 seats and the democrats will filibusterer the hell out of it for Cains entire term. McCain, Snow, Colins will vote it down too. Who knows who else...The house may not even pass it. I believe it is dead in the congress.