CA High-Speed Rail Cost Explodes to $231 Billion, From Original $33 Billion
- Thread starter Doc7505
- Start date
Yet the Trump Family and co., exceeds anything -- all in less than just a few years
Missed the point yet again, eh?
and missed that Junior High School civics class:
"Eminent domain, derived from the Fifth Amendment's Takings Clause, allows federal, state, and local governments to seize private property for "public use" without the owner's consent, provided they offer "just compensation". This authority is limited by the requirement that the taking must serve public, rather than purely private, interests."
TheGreatSatan
Diamond Member
- Jun 17, 2019
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Fake day cares, fake high speed rail projects.
All theft and treason
Democrats = traitors
/—-/ What exactly did the Trumps do wrong?
Nostra
Diamond Member
- Oct 7, 2019
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Link?
/—-/ You got nothing but false accusations, exaggerations and hyperbole.
Try any news source
Nostra
Diamond Member
- Oct 7, 2019
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Well then, it should be easy to prove you aren’t a liar, liar.
Try any news source
GO!
.
Nostra
Diamond Member
- Oct 7, 2019
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Also, he lies.
People on the planet have existences where they are just surviving. You guys waste so much. The value of a dollar means nothing. I tis just a method of getting what you want.
Doc7505
Diamond Member
- Feb 16, 2016
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- Thread starter
- #33
<~~~~~~~~~~>
California’s high-speed rail now ‘worst project in history’ — as insiders reveal unbelievable new cost
High-Speed Rail project ripped after costs soar to $231B
State auditors criticized California’s high-speed rail project from San Francisco to Los Angeles, saying the costly project backed by Governor Gavin Newsom lacks a plan to finish.
nypost.com
Calls are growing for California’s high-speed rail to be abandoned completely after revelations the estimated cost of completing Gavin Newsom’s fantasy train project has ballooned to a staggering $231 billion.
The latest cost revisions for the project — revealed during a Senate Transportation Committee meeting — left lawmakers fuming after the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office flagged numerous concerns.
State Sen. Tony Strickland, vice chair of the STC, said the California High-Speed Rail Authority’s plan continues to obscure true costs — and now he’s calling for the entire project to be scrapped.
This is despite the project having already burned through a cool $14 billion in taxpayer’s cash, mostly on land acquisition and construction in the Central Valley.
“I’ve been saying this for years now, but this is the most wasteful government project in probably world history,” Strickland told The Post. “It goes from a $33 billion projected estimate to the voters to go from LA to San Francisco. Now it’s $231 billion and climbing.”
Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-Roseville) called the California high-speed rail project “the worst public infrastructure failure in U.S. history.”
“Thankfully, we have now cut off all further federal funding,” Kiley told The Post. “There is no viable path forward for this disastrous project. I fully expect the next California governor will have to recognize that reality, stop throwing good money after bad, and finally wind the project down.”
~Snip~
Gov. Gavin Newsom, who himself admitted in 2019 there was no path to get the train from San Francisco to Los Angeles, pushed the state to instead focus on a 171-mile segment between Merced and Bakersfield.
About 119 miles are under active construction with completion now targeted for 2032.
In Fresno, locals call the project’s discarded materials to lay track “Stonehenge.”
Commentary:
Amongst other things, California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), which has been used in numerous lawsuits against the project. These regulations require thorough environmental reviews, which have contributed to the project's delays and extended timeline and increased costs.
Its also become apparent that Democrats use these programs to siphon off and launder money to their campaigns. How else can you explain how they keep getting elected despite their historic incompetence duplicity and hypocrisy.
The money for the project went somewhere. How many people were paid for “Environmental Studies”?
Fraud running rampant? Also, Caltrans and their contractor Granite Construction, for our freeway systems and bridge repairs.
Is this bad enough for Democrat majority legislature in Sacramento to impeach the governor?
toobfreak
Tungsten/Glass Member
- Apr 29, 2017
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That is a cost overrun of exactly 700%. Now keep in mind the thing isn't even built yet. But this is not so much a reflection of inflationary construction costs as much as most of the overrun actually goes to feed the leftwing bureaucratic red tape machine where you must justify the jobs of thousands of idiots by placating them much as store grocers used to have to pay the local mob for protection otherwise they got ran out of business.
In my estimation, there is at least a 50% chance the thing never gets built at any cost, but if they do, it'll be more like a 1,000% cost overrun by then. And it will be plagued by nothing but breakdowns and constant problems.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
These Dem scams make the 'Learing' center fraud look like chump change. Dems seize BILLIONS from taxpayers. Then dole out the BILLIONS on projects like this, not to actually build them, but to do studies of building them. Because you can't take a dump in California without 15 government studies. Which employ government workers. So the funding gets scammed into payroll, benefits and pensions for government do nothings and pals of politicians who all kick back part of the money to the politicians. Rinse and repeat until the nearly $300 billion has gone missing. Meanwhile they managed to actually lay 2 blocks of rail.
SeaMajor7
Diamond Member
It is WAY past time that the whole DNC Criminal Enterprise be RICO'd up their asses!!!!
They are robbing this country BLIND and RIGHT IN OUR FACES.
They know that we know that they are absolute CRIMINALS, and they DON'T CARE. Why should they? They've been getting away with it for DECADES.
Drop the hammer on these CROOKS already, godammit.
They are robbing this country BLIND and RIGHT IN OUR FACES.
They know that we know that they are absolute CRIMINALS, and they DON'T CARE. Why should they? They've been getting away with it for DECADES.
Drop the hammer on these CROOKS already, godammit.
Has anyone here got any proof of corruption?
Actually has anyone here got any proof that any politician was even at major fault for this overrun?
This the cost of a country that has little experience in high rail infrastructure getting involved in a major project... This is a major learning curve, they probably shouldn't have taken on such a big project as their first try...
Can I also point out :
Still cheaper per mile than the TxDOT highway expansion in Houston.
But we see no Democrats here screaming about corruption...
Truth is this is large projects...It estimated first off way too low...
Here is the reasons we got:
A bunch of reasons, but that been suggested:
- Buy America rules restrict the materials that can be used in federally-funded transportation projects, which drives up costs
- the U.S. has a super byzantine environmental permitting process, then on top of that, California has its own statewide permitting process that's even more difficult to navigate, and the two aren't interchangeable so the project had to clear both
- California did not adequately staff the project. They grossly underestimated the number of people it would take to manage this.
- some of the project's alignment runs near freight railroads. Freight railroads are assholes. They will refuse to shut down their lines for even a few hours to allow construction work to happen. They are notoriously awful to work with, and that was the case here; they delayed the project as much as possible.
- there were a lot of lawsuits to try and block the project, some of which stem from the previously mentioned environmental permitting processes
- Property acquisition for transit projects is a pain in the ass; rail and transit operate under different rules from highways that delay them from purchasing property until permitting is done, while highway projects can buy up property while still in permitting. This isn't a legal barrier or anything; departmental staff just won't make the change.
- Government contracts heavily incentivize unrealistic low bids, and it's standard practice to build in contingency for a project to be 20% over budget.
- inflation in construction materials has outpaced regular inflation by a great deal
Buy American for a country that has no experience in this type of build seems a project suicide at this stage. China wouldn't do that, they would get you in, build it, they would try and copy you the next time.
So let me show you example of Buy America Act (federal)... The Contractors on this project are
If this was done in in the rest of the world it would be either
This isn't about corruption, it is about US coming very late to the table on technology being implemented and used other places in the world. US is way behind on this type of public builds unless roads... Roads will not solve California problems... They have the population density and rail like this would connect their whole state.
Would take prudent advice here... Bring in an experienced contractor e.g. Siemens... Understand the benefit to the state financially of having such an asset. This would allow people to live away from big cities like San Fran and LA and commute in daily (this is huge).
Yes this is expensive, it always will be... But he lesson learnt here will be invaluable
This is not about budget over runs, it is about benefit v cost...
Actually has anyone here got any proof that any politician was even at major fault for this overrun?
This the cost of a country that has little experience in high rail infrastructure getting involved in a major project... This is a major learning curve, they probably shouldn't have taken on such a big project as their first try...
Can I also point out :
Still cheaper per mile than the TxDOT highway expansion in Houston.
But we see no Democrats here screaming about corruption...
Truth is this is large projects...It estimated first off way too low...
Here is the reasons we got:
A bunch of reasons, but that been suggested:
- Buy America rules restrict the materials that can be used in federally-funded transportation projects, which drives up costs
- the U.S. has a super byzantine environmental permitting process, then on top of that, California has its own statewide permitting process that's even more difficult to navigate, and the two aren't interchangeable so the project had to clear both
- California did not adequately staff the project. They grossly underestimated the number of people it would take to manage this.
- some of the project's alignment runs near freight railroads. Freight railroads are assholes. They will refuse to shut down their lines for even a few hours to allow construction work to happen. They are notoriously awful to work with, and that was the case here; they delayed the project as much as possible.
- there were a lot of lawsuits to try and block the project, some of which stem from the previously mentioned environmental permitting processes
- Property acquisition for transit projects is a pain in the ass; rail and transit operate under different rules from highways that delay them from purchasing property until permitting is done, while highway projects can buy up property while still in permitting. This isn't a legal barrier or anything; departmental staff just won't make the change.
- Government contracts heavily incentivize unrealistic low bids, and it's standard practice to build in contingency for a project to be 20% over budget.
- inflation in construction materials has outpaced regular inflation by a great deal
Buy American for a country that has no experience in this type of build seems a project suicide at this stage. China wouldn't do that, they would get you in, build it, they would try and copy you the next time.
So let me show you example of Buy America Act (federal)... The Contractors on this project are
- Construction Partners: Tutor Perini / Zachry / Parsons (TPZP) serves as the primary design-build contractor for CP1 (Madera to Fresno).
- Subcontractors: Key contributors include Fisk Electric Company, Becho, Inc., and Desert Mechanical Inc..
If this was done in in the rest of the world it would be either
- CRRC Corporation (China) (by far the largest)
- Siemens (Germany),
- Alstom (France),
- Hitachi (Japan),
- Talgo (Spain)
- Hyundai (South Korea)
This isn't about corruption, it is about US coming very late to the table on technology being implemented and used other places in the world. US is way behind on this type of public builds unless roads... Roads will not solve California problems... They have the population density and rail like this would connect their whole state.
Would take prudent advice here... Bring in an experienced contractor e.g. Siemens... Understand the benefit to the state financially of having such an asset. This would allow people to live away from big cities like San Fran and LA and commute in daily (this is huge).
Yes this is expensive, it always will be... But he lesson learnt here will be invaluable
This is not about budget over runs, it is about benefit v cost...
Since I hav personally been involved in 4 takings, I doubt there is little you could teach me.
Nostra
Diamond Member
- Oct 7, 2019
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$230 billion and not a stick of track laid.
Why do you even try to spin that, Short Bus?
Could I ask where is the $230bn coming from, I am getting $135bn online...
This hasn't been spent, this cost estimates...
Again this cheaper per mile than a Highway in Houston...
This is a 776 mile high speed rail system through some of the most populated ares in the US.
Which puts it at 174 million a mile...
Just compare, UK is costing £300m per mile for there high speed rail.
China can build cheap because they don't care about human right, employ rights and health safety is in the toilet...
I have no expectations that this is going to be cheap... the question is the Benefit going outweighs the cost.
First, to help pay for all this, set up stations in the middle of nowhere and buy all the land around it... How do you the TransAmerican railing was paid for back in the day.
Living on the line could mean you commute to either LA, San Fran or Sacramento... LAX I persume would be a stop on the way too.. Amazing what buy thousands of acres can eventually pay for..
Do the numbers properly, serious money not spent yet... But high speed rail is a game changer. Look at France, very few internal flights... Paris to Marseilles 480miles in 3h 08m... Trains very easy to work on not like a plane. No way is faster, take in the time to go from City Center to City Center...
This is about investment... Yep, this one is expensive.. Look at how much UK is willing to spend..
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