Bush is losing the Bushies

[Gunny]

gunny, are the terrorist going to come and get us over here if we leave iraq?

This has WHAY exactly to do with anything I have posted?

Using simple logic, if nothing else, we are keeping militant Islamic fundamentalists/terrorists occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. When we leave the Middle East, they will be free to do as they wish.

Last time they were ignored and left to their own mechanizations, 1992-2001, the result was 9/11.

Draw your own conclusion.

 

[maineman]

This has WHAY exactly to do with anything I have posted?

Using simple logic, if nothing else, we are keeping militant Islamic fundamentalists/terrorists occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. When we leave the Middle East, they will be free to do as they wish.

Last time they were ignored and left to their own mechanizations, 1992-2001, the result was 9/11.

Draw your own conclusion.

and you assume that there are not 19 of them not occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan right now?

 

[Gunny]

They will fight and blow things up where ever they can, and you will attribute the fact that there have been no attacks here to the supreme leadership of the "Decider"

When in fact they are perfectly happy killing our soldiers in Iraq.

And thanks to our invasion and occupation you can be absolutely sure, there will be another attack in the future.

Thanks to the "Decider"

There was going to to be another attack sooner or later, with or without Bush. Your conclusion that it will be "because of Bush" is bullshit. What did he have to do with EITHER WTC bombings? BOTH were planned on CLinton's watch. SO do we blame Clinton?

Perhaps y'all should get off your partisan hack wagon and look a reality. They're going to attack us, regardless who is President or which party controls Congress because of WHO WE ARE and WHO THEY ARE.

BTW ... I thought there were no terrorists in Iraq ...only "insurgents" Seems THAT is yet another claim that falls by the wayside under the light of truth. So, which is it?

And at least those troops in Iraq have a fighting chance and are dishing out as good or better than they get. The victims of 9/11 had NO chance at all. SO yeah, I prefer them fighting our military to waging war against our noncombatants.

 

[maineman]

to claim that the first WTC attack was "planned on Clinton's watch" is just a TAD farfetched, don't you think?

 

[maineman]

especially if you want to also presume that the second one was, as well?

 

[Gunny]

and you assume that there are not 19 of them not occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan right now?

I assume nothing. There could be 19 or 190. Ther could also be 0.

My opinion has nothing to do with Iraq itself, but the larger picture of the extremist Muslim threat to the West, and the US in particular. I merely stand behind the logic that fighting and keeping them occupied in THEIR yard keeps them out of ours.

I don't however believe the al Qaeda bin Laden belongs to and attacked us is even in Iraq. Nor does it account for other Islamic terrorist organizations that may have nothing to do with Iraq, but consider the US an enemy worthy of attack.

But I DO think we are keeping a lot of their potential recruits busy.

 

[Gunny]

to claim that the first WTC attack was "planned on Clinton's watch" is just a TAD farfetched, don't you think?

Not at all. The facts that came out during that one AQ member's trial support it. Bush had been in office about a year and a half when 9/11 happened. The planning for 9/11 took several years.

You don't need to defend your boy though. My whole point is that it would not have, and does not now matter WHO is President. The US, not a specific President nor specific political party is the enemy of extreme Islam. That's ALL of us. Something nobody seems to want to realize beign too busy with all their partisan infighting.

 

[maineman]

Not at all. The facts that came out during that one AQ member's trial support it. Bush had been in office about a year and a half when 9/11 happened. The planning for 9/11 took several years.

You don't need to defend your boy though. My whole point is that it would not have, and does not now matter WHO is President. The US, not a specific President nor specific political party is the enemy of extreme Islam. That's ALL of us. Something nobody seems to want to realize beign too busy with all their partisan infighting.

you are wrong on your chronology. Clinton had been in office one month before the first WTC attack. Bush had been in office seven and a half months when the second WTC attack (9/11) occurred.

And I understand full well who our enemy is, and it is NOT the sunnis and the shiites of Iraq.

 

[Care4all]

Not at all. The facts that came out during that one AQ member's trial support it. Bush had been in office about a year and a half when 9/11 happened. The planning for 9/11 took several years.

You don't need to defend your boy though. My whole point is that it would not have, and does not now matter WHO is President. The US, not a specific President nor specific political party is the enemy of extreme Islam. That's ALL of us. Something nobody seems to want to realize beign too busy with all their partisan infighting.

JUST CLARRIFICATION of timing:

President clinton was in office less than a month and a half before the first world trade center attack in 93.

President Bush was in office a little less than 8 months before the event of 911 attack.

 

[Gunny]

you are wrong on your chronology. Clinton had been in office one month before the first WTC attack. Bush had been in office seven and a half months when the second WTC attack (9/11) occurred.

And I understand full well who our enemy is, and it is NOT the sunnis and the shiites of Iraq.

Okay, I got my dates wrong. Probably because if you got my point, it really is irrelevant. Bin Laden declared jihad against the US when Bush 41 was in office.

Again, he declared jihad against the US, not individual Presidents.

 

[Gunny]

JUST CLARRIFICATION of timing:

President clinton was in office less than a month and a half before the first world trade center attack in 93.

President Bush was in office a little less than 8 months before the event of 911 attack.

That was already pointed out. I stand corrected. It's STILL irrelevant to my point. Had it been relevant, I would have looked it up.

 

[maineman]

Okay, I got my dates wrong. Probably because if you got my point, it really is irrelevant. Bin Laden declared jihad against the US when Bush 41 was in office.
Again, he declared jihad against the US, not individual Presidents.

link please

 

[Gunny]

link please

You're saying you are not aware that bin Laden decalred jihad against the US during the First Gulf War because he took offense to us being on Arab soil? That's been common knowledge for years.

 

[maineman]

You're saying you are not aware that bin Laden decalred jihad against the US during the First Gulf War because he took offense to us being on Arab soil? That's been common knowledge for years.

link please.

I don't think you can find anything that shows that OBL issued a fatwa against the USA until 1996 at the earliest

 

[Gunny]

Here's your links:

Osama Bin Laden (also - Usama bin Laden, Usama bin Ladin) who instigated the terror attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, is probably the most wanted man on earth. He carries on a crusade against the Americans for having troops in Saudi Arabia, and against the Zionists who occupy Al Quds (Jerusalem). Born in 1957 to a wealthy Saudi Arabian construction magnate, he joined the Afghan Moslem rebels fighting the USSR in 1979. He used his money to recruit an army from around the middle east. Throughout the 1980s, Bin Laden fought the Soviet backed regime, with CIA aid. However, he saw secular, powerful Washington as much an infidel as Moscow. After the war, he returned to Saudi Arabia, , but the Saudi government feared his brand of militant Islam, and stripped him of his Saudi citizenship in April 1994 for ``irresponsible behavior.'' In Sudan, the country's Islamic ideologue, Hassan al-Turabi, gave him shelter. Bin Laden, with a fortune estimated at $300 million, helped build a road linking the capital, Khartoum, with Port Sudan and an airport. He became involved, too, in the export of Sudanese goods, like gum, corn, sunflower and sesame products. However, western pressure on Sudan, forced him to leave in 1995, returning to Afghanistan, reportedly with more than 100 followers.

more ...http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen1.htm

Osama bin Laden signed and issued a Declaration of Jihad entitled "Message from Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden to His Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula."

Although bin Laden was already very much involved in anti-American activities, the declaration marked an effort to publicly justify planned and unplanned violence against the United States.

The declaration, also known as the "Ladense epistle," was published in the London-based newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi, which bin Laden often used to disseminate his views.

Bin Laden divides his anger between two targets: "The Zionist-Crusader alliance" - Israel, the United States and their allies - and the government of Saudi Arabia, his homeland.

Bin Laden says the greatest injustice inflicted on Muslims since the death of Muhammed more than 1,300 years ago is the presence of U.S. troops - "occupiers" in his words - in Saudi Arabia, the land of the two holy places.

more ...http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/osama_bin_laden_declares_jihad.htm

 

[maineman]

I am not suggesting that history has not shown that OBL became pissed off at America because of our occupation of islamic holy lands during the first gulf war. I am suggesting that we, as Americans, were not made aware of that anger of his, nor did he issue a fatwa against us out of that anger until 1996.

 

[Gunny]

I am not suggesting that history has not shown that OBL became pissed off at America because of our occupation of islamic holy lands during the first gulf war. I am suggesting that we, as Americans, were not made aware of that anger of his, nor did he issue a fatwa against us out of that anger until 1996.

He issued his first one against us in 1990, the second we set foot on Saudi Arabian soil. The links support this.

Not saying he didn't do it again later, but I DO recall it being way sooner than 96.

 

[maineman]

He issued his first one against us in 1990, the second we set foot on Saudi Arabian soil. The links support this.

Not saying he didn't do it again later, but I DO recall it being way sooner than 96.

I don't see anything in your links that support the claim that America knew about OBL declaring war against us any earlier than 1996. We may now know that what pissed him off occured before that time, but we were unaware of it until after OBL had left the Sudan for Afghanistan in May of 1996.

 

[red states rule]

I don't see anything in your links that support the claim that America knew about OBL declaring war against us any earlier than 1996. We may now know that what pissed him off occured before that time, but we were unaware of it until after OBL had left the Sudan for Afghanistan in May of 1996.

You ignore any facts that go against your pre-determined view of the issues

 

[Superlative]

You ignore any facts that go against your pre-determined view of the issues

Yer one to talk.

You ignore any facts that go against your memorized view of the issues