SpidermanTuba said:
So if the goal, of a particular person, is just to expel the U.S. from Iraq, you don't consider that terrorism? And they can use any means they want?
Are you seriously delusional enough to believe the terrorists just want us to politely leave and then they'll stop killing? I believe we need to put this into context. The terrorists kill, maim, torture & have no mercy and no room for negotiation. Their goal is simply death, destruction & power.
You can't change what something is by describing it with better sounding words. Kidnapping a person's family members, who themselves are no danger, for the purpose of trying to get that person to turn themself in, is a terrorist tactic.
No, we are not killing these people, or maiming/torturing them. We have a goal, and that's to catch the terrorists and bring freedom and democracy to the world. You'd like to put us on the same page as the terrorists so that you have something to whine about regarding Bush but any level headed thinking American sees it much differently than you.
Then stop doing it. Choose higher standards. Intead of figuring "well hey, as long as we're not beheading people, we're behaving in a morally acceptable manner!", choose an even higher standard to compare ourselves to.
No, what we are already doing is morally acceptable. We are trying to assist the Iraqi people, remove terrorists, build infrastructure & democracy. Sometimes your hands need to get a little dirty when fighting the worlds worst terrorist organization & insurgents who believe that death is the most honorable thing one can do.
Seriously, ST, you're fighting a losing battle on this one. Although I disagree with your politics, you usually come off fairly intelligent with at least decent arguments. Trying to place the USA on the same plane as terrorism is just silly. We all know what first springs to mind when we think of terrorists and I honestly never think of anyone in our administration - or previous administrations, or any liberal democrats for that fact. We all at least have a fairly common goal, which is to protect the USA and keep this great country on top. I never looked at our techniques, intelligence gathering or war fighting capabilities as anything other than top notch - and at a MUCH higher standard that 99% of the world. - and I certainly don't see any of our methods of protecting our country or gathering intel/evidence as terrorism.