Bush a bad president

[Sandy73]

Bush a bad president
> >
> > Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They
> complain
> > about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the
> worst
> > president in U.S. history.
> >
> > Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to
> > remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
> > Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.
> > FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From
> > 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.
> >
> > Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
> > attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of
> > 18,333 per year.
> >
> > John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
> attacked
> > us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975,
> > 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
> >
> > Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never
> > attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
> times
> > by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
> >
> > In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has
> liberated
> > two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear
> > inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and
> > captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
> > We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year. Bush did all this abroad
> > while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
> >
> > Worst president in history? Come on!

 

[jimnyc]

 

[janeeng]

Great post Sandy!!!! Libs will hate this one! :clap1:

 

[Sandy73]

I know that is why I posted it !! HEHE

 

[DKSuddeth]

just some minor corrections, if I may:

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

This is not entirely accurate. FDR tried to involve the US and was stonewalled by the congress and senate. It was only until after dec 7,1941 that FDR was allowed to enter the war.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

The vietnam conflict was started before kennedy ever took office.
1941

Communist activist Ho Chi Minh secretly returns to Vietnam after 30 years in exile and organizes a nationalist organization known as the Viet Minh (Vietnam Independence League). After Japanese troops occupy Vietnam during World War II, the U.S. military intelligence agency Office of Strategic Services (OSS) allies with Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Minh guerrillas to harass Japanese troops in the jungles and to help rescue downed American pilots.

1945

March 9, 1945 - Amid rumors of a possible American invasion, Japanese oust the French colonial government which had been operating independently and seize control of Vietnam, installing Bao Dai as their puppet ruler.

Summer - Severe famine strikes Hanoi and surrounding areas eventually resulting in two million deaths from starvation out of a population of ten million. The famine generates political unrest and peasant revolts against the Japanese and remnants of French colonial society. Ho Chi Minh capitalizes on the turmoil by successfully spreading his Viet Minh movement.

July 1945 - Following the defeat of Nazi Germany, World War II Allies including the U.S., Britain, and Soviet Union, hold the Potsdam Conference in Germany to plan the post-war world. Vietnam is considered a minor item on the agenda.

In order to disarm the Japanese in Vietnam, the Allies divide the country in half at the 16th parallel. Chinese Nationalists will move in and disarm the Japanese north of the parallel while the British will move in and do the same in the south.

During the conference, representatives from France request the return of all French pre-war colonies in Southeast Asia (Indochina). Their request is granted. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia will once again become French colonies following the removal of the Japanese.

August 1945 - Japanese surrender unconditionally. Vietnam's puppet emperor, Bao Dai, abdicates. Ho Chi Minh's guerrillas occupy Hanoi and proclaim a provisional government.

September 2, 1945 - Japanese sign the surrender agreement in Tokyo Bay formally ending World War II in the Pacific. On this same day, Ho Chi Minh proclaims the independence of Vietnam by quoting from the text of the American Declaration of Independence which had been supplied to him by the OSS -- "We hold the truth that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. These are undeniable truths."

Ho declares himself president of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and pursues American recognition but is repeatedly ignored by President Harry Truman.

September 13, 1945 - British forces arrive in Saigon, South Vietnam.

In North Vietnam, 150,000 Chinese Nationalist soldiers, consisting mainly of poor peasants, arrive in Hanoi after looting Vietnamese villages during their entire march down from China. They then proceed to loot Hanoi.

September 22, 1945 - In South Vietnam, 1400 French soldiers released by the British from former Japanese internment camps enter Saigon and go on a deadly rampage, attacking Viet Minh and killing innocent civilians including children, aided by French civilians who joined the rampage. An estimated 20,000 French civilians live in Saigon.

September 24, 1945 - In Saigon, Viet Minh successfully organize a general strike shutting down all commerce along with electricity and water supplies. In a suburb of Saigon, members of Binh Xuyen, a Vietnamese criminal organization, massacre 150 French and Eurasian civilians, including children.

September 26, 1945 - The first American death in Vietnam occurs, during the unrest in Saigon, as OSS officer Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey is killed by Viet Minh guerrillas who mistook him for a French officer. Before his death, Dewey had filed a report on the deepening crisis in Vietnam, stating his opinion that the U.S. "ought to clear out of Southeast Asia."

October 1945 - 35,000 French soldiers under the command of World War II General Jacques Philippe Leclerc arrive in South Vietnam to restore French rule. Viet Minh immediately begin a guerrilla campaign to harass them. The French then succeed in expelling the Viet Minh from Saigon.

1946

February 1946 - The Chinese under Chiang Kai-shek agree to withdraw from North Vietnam and allow the French to return in exchange for French concessions in Shanghai and other Chinese ports.

March 1946 - Ho Chi Minh agrees to permit French troops to return to Hanoi temporarily in exchange for French recognition of his Democratic Republic of Vietnam. Chinese troops then depart.

May-September - Ho Chi Minh spends four months in France attempting to negotiate full independence and unity for Vietnam, but fails to obtain any guarantee from the French.

June 1946 - In a major affront to Ho Chi Minh, the French high commissioner for Indochina proclaims a separatist French-controlled government for South Vietnam (Republic of Chochinchina).

November 1946 - After a series of violent clashes with Viet Minh, French forces bombard Haiphong harbor and occupy Hanoi, forcing Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Minh forces to retreat into the jungle.

December 19, 1946 - In Hanoi, 30,000 Viet Minh launch their first large-scale attack against the French. Thus begins an eight year struggle known as the First Indochina War. "The resistance will be long and arduous, but our cause is just and we will surely triumph," declares Viet Minh military commander Vo Nguyen Giap. "If these [people] want a fight, they'll get it," French military commander Gen. Etrienne Valluy states.

1947

October 7- December 22 - The French conduct Operation Lea, a series of attacks on Viet Minh guerrilla positions in North Vietnam near the Chinese border. Although the Viet Minh suffer over 9000 causalities, most of the 40,000 strong Viet Minh force slips away through gaps in the French lines.

1949

March 8, 1949 - The French install Bao Dai as puppet head of state in South Vietnam.

July 1949 - The French establish the (South) Vietnamese National Army.

October 1949 - Mao Zedong's Communist forces defeat Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Army in the Chinese civil war. Mao's victory ignites American anti-Communist sentiment regarding Southeast Asia and will result in a White House foreign policy goal of "containment" of Communist expansion in the region.

1950

January 1950 - The People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union recognize Ho Chi Minh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

China then begins sending military advisors and modern weapons to the Viet Minh including automatic weapons, mortars, howitzers, and trucks. Much of the equipment is American-made and had belonged to the Chinese Nationalists before their defeat by Mao. With the influx of new equipment and Chinese advisors, General Giap transforms his guerrilla fighters into conventional army units including five light infantry divisions and one heavy division.

February 1950 - The United States and Britain recognize Bao Dai's French-controlled South Vietnam government.

February 1950 - Viet Minh begin an offensive against French outposts in North Vietnam near the Chinese border.

February 7, 1950 - In America, the era of 'McCarthyism' erupts as Senator Joseph R. McCarthy of Wisconsin gives a speech claiming the U.S. State Department harbors Communists. As a consequence of McCarthyism, no U.S. politician is willing to appear to be 'soft' on Communism.

June 30, 1950 - President Harry S. Truman orders U.S. ground troops into Korea following Communist North Korea's invasion of the South. In his message to the American people, Truman describes the invasion as a Moscow-backed attack by "monolithic world Communism."

July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.

American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.

September 16, 1950 - General Giap begins his main attack against French outposts near the Chinese border. As the outposts fall, the French lose 6000 men and large stores of military equipment to the Viet Minh.

September 27, 1950 - The U.S. establishes a Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) in Saigon to aid the French Army.


Bush HAS liberated two countries, the taliban is not crushed but still has presence in afghanistan that may appear to be growing, al qaeda is not crippled but appears to be growing the insurgency in iraq, he HAS put inspectors in libya and iran but north korea?, and despite trying to call hussein a terrorist 50 million times he was a dictator, tyrant, and despotic ruler, NOT a terrorist. Bush is not the worst in US history, but he certainly isn't the best.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
and despite trying to call hussein a terrorist 50 million times he was a dictator, tyrant, and despotic ruler, NOT a terrorist.

Come again?

Did Hussein not govern by intimidation?

Was he not a radical who employs terror as a political weapon?

Didn't he unlawfully intimidate and threaten the use of force and violence to further his agenda?

The answer to all 3 is an emphatic YES, and all 3 are definitions of a terorist and/or terrorism.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Come again?

Did Hussein not govern by intimidation?

Was he not a radical who employs terror as a political weapon?

Didn't he unlawfully intimidate and threaten the use of force and violence to further his agenda?

The answer to all 3 is an emphatic YES, and all 3 are definitions of a terorist and/or terrorism.

he fits the ultimate definition of a despot, tyrant, dictator. Since he didn't engage in acts of terrorism but more closely may have supported terrorists it would only be logical to place him in the ranks of tyrant, not terrorist.

 

[MtnBiker]

Nice timeline DK.

Yup the U.S. entry in WWII was later on the world stage and only after we were attacked by Japan and Hitler delcared war on us. FDR only had to responed at that point without any political fallout.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
he fits the ultimate definition of a despot, tyrant, dictator. Since he didn't engage in acts of terrorism but more closely may have supported terrorists it would only be logical to place him in the ranks of tyrant, not terrorist.

Did Osama actually fly a plane into NYC? Did he float the boats up to the USS Cole? No, he didn't, I guess he isn't a terrorist either.

Saddam literally meets the definition of a terrorist. There isn't a need to repeat it 50,000 times as you stated, saying it once makes it true.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
he fits the ultimate definition of a despot, tyrant, dictator. Since he didn't engage in acts of terrorism but more closely may have supported terrorists it would only be logical to place him in the ranks of tyrant, not terrorist.

How noble of you to make sure Saddam is accurately represented.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Did Osama actually fly a plane into NYC? Did he float the boats up to the USS Cole? No, he didn't, I guess he isn't a terrorist either.

Saddam literally meets the definition of a terrorist. There isn't a need to repeat it 50,000 times as you stated, saying it once makes it true.

OBL actively leads and trains his AQ operatives, is NOT the leader of a nation, so naturally he is a terrorist.

If you wish to go with literal definitions of what a terrorist is then we better start including a handful of US presidents, is that something you'd like to do?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
How noble of you to make sure Saddam is accurately represented.

I would think that as a neocon, or a diehard republican, you would approve of factual and accurate representation. I guess that since it doesn't coincide with your 'worldly' view you'd simply like to dismiss this one?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
OBL actively leads and trains his AQ operatives, is NOT the leader of a nation, so naturally he is a terrorist.

If you wish to go with literal definitions of what a terrorist is then we better start including a handful of US presidents, is that something you'd like to do?

Sure, I'd love for you to try and convince us that any US president is or was a terrorist!

Saddam's only goals were to engage people in fear. He wanted his own people to fear him. He used chemical weapons against his own people. Everything he has done has been about control and fear. He may not be strapping on a bomb or rolling his car full of explosives up alongside a cafe, but he was a terrorist.

So go ahead and play your word games with current or former US presidents, but I highly doubt anyone here is going to agree.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
OBL actively leads and trains his AQ operatives, is NOT the leader of a nation, so naturally he is a terrorist.

If you wish to go with literal definitions of what a terrorist is then we better start including a handful of US presidents, is that something you'd like to do?

ter·ror·ism __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(tr-rzm)
n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


note dk, it doesn't say, unless your also a tyrant. Tyrants can be terrorists, and most often are.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
During the conference, representatives from France request the return of all French pre-war colonies in Southeast Asia (Indochina). Their request is granted. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia will once again become French colonies following the removal of the Japanese

why, why, why...

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Sure, I'd love for you to try and convince us that any US president is or was a terrorist!

Saddam's only goals were to engage people in fear. He wanted his own people to fear him. He used chemical weapons against his own people. Everything he has done has been about control and fear. He may not be strapping on a bomb or rolling his car full of explosives up alongside a cafe, but he was a terrorist.

So go ahead and play your word games with current or former US presidents, but I highly doubt anyone here is going to agree.

I know better than to try and convince most of you of anything that speaks ill of your republican party or your personal and particular views of your country simply because you're so mired in your beliefs that it would be a waste of my time. You wouldn't believe it whether the truth was shown to you or not.

If you are able to get past some of the closed mindedness that seems to be prevelant at times you might just realize that by intrinsically tying anyones support for groups that conduct terrorism, as your literal definition now defines it, you'd realize that you're lumping the US government right along with it.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I know better than to try and convince most of you of anything that speaks ill of your republican party or your personal and particular views of your country simply because you're so mired in your beliefs that it would be a waste of my time. You wouldn't believe it whether the truth was shown to you or not.

If you are able to get past some of the closed mindedness that seems to be prevelant at times you might just realize that by intrinsically tying anyones support for groups that conduct terrorism, as your literal definition now defines it, you'd realize that you're lumping the US government right along with it.

He didn't just support terrorists, he terrorized his own people for christs sake! Terrorists terrorize people, and when they do so it is called terrorism.

Mince words all you like, but it won't change Saddam's history.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
ter·ror·ism __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(tr-rzm)
n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


note dk, it doesn't say, unless your also a tyrant. Tyrants can be terrorists, and most often are.

ty·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trnt)

1. An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions.
2. A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner.
3. An oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person.

note RWA, it specifically refers to an absolute ruler, a ruler who exercises power, whereas your definition of terrorist refers to a person or a group of people, therefore its only proper and correct to use tyrant when referring to leaders of governments/countries and terrorist when referring to individuals or groups who are not recognized legitimate leaders of nations.

write to websters if you'd like to rewrite the dictionary.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc
He didn't just support terrorists, he terrorized his own people for christs sake! Terrorists terrorize people, and when they do so it is called terrorism.

Mince words all you like, but it won't change Saddam's history.

Nor would it change the history of the United States Government.

Its not mincing words jim, its using some of your detailed arguments that now work against you instead of for you.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Nor would it change the history of the United States Government.

Its not mincing words jim, its using some of your detailed arguments that now work against you instead of for you.

What the hell does the US government have to do with whether Saddam is a terrorist or not? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Changing the subject won't make you right in this instance.

I don't see one single thing working against me! The guy may very well be a tyrant, but that doesn't preclude him from being a terrorist. If I said you were dumb, does that mean you can't be stupid?