Bundy Caught Lying about "Ancestral Rights"

[Nutz]

Will you RW loons just admit that Bundy is a criminal? Get over it. It is as much a criminal as a tax evader. The Feds need to place a lien on his ranch and force payment of his back fees.

Why don't they do that?
Maybe because they are doing things that are illegal and they don't want that brought up in Court.

LOL, this issue has been in the courts for how many years now. Again I ask, why didn't Bundy win through the precedence set by the other court case involving the Hagues

 

[Howey]

I forgot. Here's Bundy ancestry.

http://www.leavittfamilies.org/cgi-bin/igmget.cgi/n=
Leavitt?I53693

and here's Snopes debunking the Harry Reid involvement conspiracy.

snopes.com: Harry Reid, Chinese Company Behind Nevada Ranch Standoff

Even the conservative Breitbart site debunked this conspiracy claim, noting:
Despite the obvious partisan gain to be had if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's son Rory (a failed 2010 Nevada gubernatorial candidate) had somehow been involved in a "land grab" affecting the Bundy family ranch operation — the facts just do not pan out as such. Indeed, Rory Reid did in fact have a hand in plans to reclassify federal lands for renewable energy developments. Just northeast of Las Vegas and Nellis Air Force Base, plans were drawn by Reid allies to potentially develop 5,717 acres of land for such use. While it would be fair to claim that such activity was in Bundy's relative neighborhood, the federal lands once leased by the family were more than 20 miles away, east of Overton, Nevada.

The top link did not work.

Thanks for letting me know. I fixt it.

 

[Papageorgio]

We have a Senator lying about heritage and the left loves her. But a another person with a different political view point is ripped up one side and down the other.

More left wing hate and hypocrisy.

 

[RKMBrown]

So he changed his mind when it was convenient for him? If he was so adamant about the land being his he would have never paid any fees at all.

He never said it was his. Why do you have to lie with every sentence?

What does the term "ancestral rights" mean?

He's referring to free ranging. It's sort of like the right to walk, hike, bike etc. on public lands. Only in this case it's the right to let your cattle walk around and feed on the grass. The courts have ruled in favor of letting people continue to do what they have always done as ranchers and negatively on federal and state encroachment on said rights when due process has not been provided. If the feds have been capricious, vindictive, and colluded to take this mans livelihood from him for their own personal benefit... yeah they might loose when the guy gets a good lawyer and/or a court more friendly to the people and less in the pocket of the state.

However if you buy a piece of land with existing laws and rules in full view... yeah then the court is less likely to side with you.

It's not always black and white.. where the law says your guilty and you are because the law says so. Sometimes both sides are guilty and the judge must decide who to side with if not against both.

 

[Asclepias]

He never said it was his. Why do you have to lie with every sentence?

What does the term "ancestral rights" mean?

He's referring to free ranging. It's sort of like the right to walk, hike, bike etc. on public lands. Only in this case it's the right to let your cattle walk around and feed on the grass. The courts have ruled in favor of letting people continue to do what they have always done as ranchers and negatively on federal and state encroachment on said rights when due process has not been provided. If the feds have been capricious, vindictive, and colluded to take this mans livelihood from him for their own personal benefit... yeah they might loose when the guy gets a good lawyer and/or a court more friendly to the people and less in the pocket of the state.

However if you buy a piece of land with existing laws and rules in full view... yeah then the court is less likely to side with you.

It's not always black and white.. where the law says your guilty and you are because the law says so. Sometimes both sides are guilty and the judge must decide who to side with if not against both.

Do you have a link to that definition? Never heard of it before.

 

[RKMBrown]

lol...he neg'd me too!

Make sure to quote it in the repository thread and people will pos rep you to set the neg off:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...pository-of-neg-rep-comments-to-laugh-at.html

LOL, I don't really care about rep...I am who I am and will eventually piss everyone off. I just think its funny that he and she neg'd me because I disagreed with them. No insults, no flaming, I was just trying to understand their point of view.

This is not a straight forward issue...there are a lot of factors that play into this. I can understand where KosherGirl and Brown are coming from...they think its tyranny because they feel ranchers are being forced from their land. I think conserving land for the tortoise is nonsense, but not grounds for an insurrection.

It is a shame that Bundy supporters can't simply state their version of the truth, back it up with links from REPUTABLE sources, and quit trying to confuse the issue with false equivalencies, ad hominem attacks, and misinformation. That is all I was trying to get the two of them to do. Maybe they had information that I was unaware of that might have influenced my decision.

IMO, they just look for reasons to hate the government so they can cry tyranny

You are nothing more than a fakey. A person who comes to a board, pretends to be conservative, yet sides with every single extreme left wing talking point.

"In the end, they will resort to terrorism like they did in 1995."

ass hole...

They ran off all the friggin ranchers EVERY SINGLE ONE. Then they shot the shit out of his bulls, cows, watering pens, ... and you stand there saying what tyranny, what a bunch of crybabies..

Yeah you are just another libtard jerk pretending to be a conservative. Run off with your libtard friends maybe they'll let you keep your job since you are willing to get on your knees for them.

 

[RKMBrown]

What does the term "ancestral rights" mean?

He's referring to free ranging. It's sort of like the right to walk, hike, bike etc. on public lands. Only in this case it's the right to let your cattle walk around and feed on the grass. The courts have ruled in favor of letting people continue to do what they have always done as ranchers and negatively on federal and state encroachment on said rights when due process has not been provided. If the feds have been capricious, vindictive, and colluded to take this mans livelihood from him for their own personal benefit... yeah they might loose when the guy gets a good lawyer and/or a court more friendly to the people and less in the pocket of the state.

However if you buy a piece of land with existing laws and rules in full view... yeah then the court is less likely to side with you.

It's not always black and white.. where the law says your guilty and you are because the law says so. Sometimes both sides are guilty and the judge must decide who to side with if not against both.

Do you have a link to that definition? Never heard of it before.

Free range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_range

 

[TemplarKormac]

I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW

Bundy explained his "ancestral rights" to the I-Team."I've lived my lifetime here. My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements," Bundy said.
Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Ha! Hahaha!

He has Mormon ancestors! It's rather dishonest to go only to 1948 and say he 'lied.' The Mormons settled in southern Nevada in 1849 I believe. Not only that, you don't go further back and critique his great grandparents. Mormons eventually spread to Arizona not soon after they settled in Nevada. Mormons had been using that land just prior to the US signing the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

"Investigative journalism" Give. Me. A. *******. Break.

 

[Nutz]

Make sure to quote it in the repository thread and people will pos rep you to set the neg off:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...pository-of-neg-rep-comments-to-laugh-at.html

LOL, I don't really care about rep...I am who I am and will eventually piss everyone off. I just think its funny that he and she neg'd me because I disagreed with them. No insults, no flaming, I was just trying to understand their point of view.

This is not a straight forward issue...there are a lot of factors that play into this. I can understand where KosherGirl and Brown are coming from...they think its tyranny because they feel ranchers are being forced from their land. I think conserving land for the tortoise is nonsense, but not grounds for an insurrection.

It is a shame that Bundy supporters can't simply state their version of the truth, back it up with links from REPUTABLE sources, and quit trying to confuse the issue with false equivalencies, ad hominem attacks, and misinformation. That is all I was trying to get the two of them to do. Maybe they had information that I was unaware of that might have influenced my decision.

IMO, they just look for reasons to hate the government so they can cry tyranny

You are nothing more than a fakey. A person who comes to a board, pretends to be conservative, yet sides with every single extreme left wing talking point.

"In the end, they will resort to terrorism like they did in 1995."

ass hole...

They ran off all the friggin ranchers EVERY SINGLE ONE. Then they shot the shit out of his bulls, cows, watering pens, ... and you stand there saying what tyranny, what a bunch of crybabies..

Yeah you are just another libtard jerk pretending to be a conservative. Run off with your libtard friends maybe they'll let you keep your job since you are willing to get on your knees for them.

Don't blame me for your inability to explain your position. BTW, how is this a left or right issue?

 

[RKMBrown]

LOL, I don't really care about rep...I am who I am and will eventually piss everyone off. I just think its funny that he and she neg'd me because I disagreed with them. No insults, no flaming, I was just trying to understand their point of view.

This is not a straight forward issue...there are a lot of factors that play into this. I can understand where KosherGirl and Brown are coming from...they think its tyranny because they feel ranchers are being forced from their land. I think conserving land for the tortoise is nonsense, but not grounds for an insurrection.

It is a shame that Bundy supporters can't simply state their version of the truth, back it up with links from REPUTABLE sources, and quit trying to confuse the issue with false equivalencies, ad hominem attacks, and misinformation. That is all I was trying to get the two of them to do. Maybe they had information that I was unaware of that might have influenced my decision.

IMO, they just look for reasons to hate the government so they can cry tyranny

You are nothing more than a fakey. A person who comes to a board, pretends to be conservative, yet sides with every single extreme left wing talking point.

"In the end, they will resort to terrorism like they did in 1995."

ass hole...

They ran off all the friggin ranchers EVERY SINGLE ONE. Then they shot the shit out of his bulls, cows, watering pens, ... and you stand there saying what tyranny, what a bunch of crybabies..

Yeah you are just another libtard jerk pretending to be a conservative. Run off with your libtard friends maybe they'll let you keep your job since you are willing to get on your knees for them.

Don't blame me for your inability to explain your position. BTW, how is this a left or right issue?

Yeah and that's why I call you a liar.

You call yourself a conservative and yet you can't tell the difference between an army of feds backed by a massive bureaucracy that regulated all but one rancher in the area out of business and the lone rancher trying to feed his family using only his friggin bare hands on the land of his fore-bearers.

You can't tell the difference? ROFL

You a city guy?

This is the city equivalent of city hall raising taxes and regulations so high they run every single small, medium, and large business out of business. No barbers, no bakers, no jobs nothing left but the empty shell of a dead city and crumbling slums. Yeah like detroit.

 

[Nutz]

You are nothing more than a fakey. A person who comes to a board, pretends to be conservative, yet sides with every single extreme left wing talking point.



ass hole...

They ran off all the friggin ranchers EVERY SINGLE ONE. Then they shot the shit out of his bulls, cows, watering pens, ... and you stand there saying what tyranny, what a bunch of crybabies..

Yeah you are just another libtard jerk pretending to be a conservative. Run off with your libtard friends maybe they'll let you keep your job since you are willing to get on your knees for them.

Don't blame me for your inability to explain your position. BTW, how is this a left or right issue?

Yeah and that's why I call you a liar.

You call yourself a conservative and yet you can't tell the difference between an army of feds backed by a massive bureaucracy that regulated all but one rancher in the area out of business and the lone rancher trying to feed his family using only his friggin bare hands on the land of his fore-bearers.

You can't tell the difference? ROFL

I can tell the difference. A rancher didn't pay his grazing fees. He broke the law. End of story. No big government necessary, why does he get away with not paying taxes and not the other ranchers. I don't like all of the laws in this nation, but I have to abide by them. What special privilege does Bundy have that precludes him from the Law of the Land?

This is just extremism, pseudo-conservatives looking for a reason to fight the government and use their guns.

 

[Nutz]

You a city guy?

This is the city equivalent of city hall raising taxes and regulations so high they run every single small, medium, and large business out of business. No barbers, no bakers, no jobs nothing left but the empty shell of a dead city and crumbling slums. Yeah like detroit.

They raise taxes all of the time...we have to pay them. I guess the next time my property taxes go up, I should start an armed insurrection, right?

 

[koshergrl]

What does the term "ancestral rights" mean?

It's a term generally associated with indiginous people.

If you're going to argue this topic, you should familiarize yourself with the terms yourself. It gets tiresome schooling you on the meanings of words like "forefathers" and phrases such as "ancestral rights".

So now he is claiming he is indigenous?

Language difficulties?

Nope, he is not claiming he is indigenous. Read again. I'm sure ultimately you'll understand what is being said. Begin with the words that are actually communicated, rather than doing whatever it is that you do to try to make the discussion something else.

 

[RKMBrown]

Don't blame me for your inability to explain your position. BTW, how is this a left or right issue?

Yeah and that's why I call you a liar.

You call yourself a conservative and yet you can't tell the difference between an army of feds backed by a massive bureaucracy that regulated all but one rancher in the area out of business and the lone rancher trying to feed his family using only his friggin bare hands on the land of his fore-bearers.

You can't tell the difference? ROFL

I can tell the difference. A rancher didn't pay his grazing fees. He broke the law. End of story. No big government necessary, why does he get away with not paying taxes and not the other ranchers. I don't like all of the laws in this nation, but I have to abide by them. What special privilege does Bundy have that precludes him from the Law of the Land?

This is just extremism, pseudo-conservatives looking for a reason to fight the government and use their guns.

They didn't just have grazing fees. They ran up the fees, AND LIMITED THE NUMBER OF CATTLE HE COULD GRAZE to a number that no rancher could possibly live off of. IOW THEY ARE TRYING TO SCREW HIM OUT OF THE RANCHING BUSINESS.

You are being obtuse. People like you who defend this crap are the lowest of the low. The scum of the earth. Nothing could be worse than a person like you who would sit idly by as his government rapes the hell out of his neighbor's family.

What right does he have? What right do any of us have to live and work? HUH?

 

[Asclepias]

He's referring to free ranging. It's sort of like the right to walk, hike, bike etc. on public lands. Only in this case it's the right to let your cattle walk around and feed on the grass. The courts have ruled in favor of letting people continue to do what they have always done as ranchers and negatively on federal and state encroachment on said rights when due process has not been provided. If the feds have been capricious, vindictive, and colluded to take this mans livelihood from him for their own personal benefit... yeah they might loose when the guy gets a good lawyer and/or a court more friendly to the people and less in the pocket of the state.

However if you buy a piece of land with existing laws and rules in full view... yeah then the court is less likely to side with you.

It's not always black and white.. where the law says your guilty and you are because the law says so. Sometimes both sides are guilty and the judge must decide who to side with if not against both.

Do you have a link to that definition? Never heard of it before.

Free range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Open range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For some reason I couldn't find a single mention of ancestral rights in that link. You sure you got the right link?

 

[Asclepias]

It's a term generally associated with indiginous people.

If you're going to argue this topic, you should familiarize yourself with the terms yourself. It gets tiresome schooling you on the meanings of words like "forefathers" and phrases such as "ancestral rights".

So now he is claiming he is indigenous?

Language difficulties?

Nope, he is not claiming he is indigenous. Read again. I'm sure ultimately you'll understand what is being said. Begin with the words that are actually communicated, rather than doing whatever it is that you do to try to make the discussion something else.

I did read again. You still said the same thing. I did note you spelled indigenous wrong. Is that the issue?

It's a term generally associated with indiginous people.

I couldnt find your spelling anywhere. How does Bundy fit into this description? Sounds like a Native American to me.

indigenous
1. originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

BTW you and Brown need to touch bases. You both are trying to explain this away with different meanings for ancestral rights.

 

[Againsheila]

Can it be that the Bundy family lived in the freaking area since the 1870's without incurring the wrath of the picky lefties?

They did not come until much, much later.

The Bundys bought the ranch in 1948.

And yet Bundy's ancestors did live in the area long before that.

 

[Asclepias]

Can it be that the Bundy family lived in the freaking area since the 1870's without incurring the wrath of the picky lefties?

They did not come until much, much later.

The Bundys bought the ranch in 1948.

And yet Bundy's ancestors did live in the area long before that.

Not longer than 1864.

 

[RKMBrown]

You a city guy?

This is the city equivalent of city hall raising taxes and regulations so high they run every single small, medium, and large business out of business. No barbers, no bakers, no jobs nothing left but the empty shell of a dead city and crumbling slums. Yeah like detroit.

They raise taxes all of the time...we have to pay them. I guess the next time my property taxes go up, I should start an armed insurrection, right?

What armed insurrection are you talking about? Why are you deflecting to some discussion about civil war or armed insurrection? You think when the government comes to rape your women you have to take or it's armed insurrection? Is that what you think? Defending your family from vicious attack by our government is akin to armed insurrection?

ROFL you can't be a conservative. No conservative is so pro big government so as to let our ranchers be run out of business.

 

[RKMBrown]

Do you have a link to that definition? Never heard of it before.

Free range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Open range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For some reason I couldn't find a single mention of ancestral rights in that link. You sure you got the right link?

You still having that problem of yours where you can't understand the concept of time? I sent you to a link that explains the history of the ancestral rights. And you freak out cause they didn't use the word ancestral when talking about history. ROFL