Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?

[Stratford57]

why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”?

They don't. What is this nonsense? Donbass is a geographical region.

They do. Everything is possible in "independent and democratic" post-coup Ukraine.



Topic: “Recognition of DNR and LNR as terrorist organizations”

LNR = Luhgansk People's Republic, DNR = Donetsk People's Republic and together they are half of geographical region of Donbass.

 

[ESay]

If official Kiev considers the common people terrorists, then why does he allow them to pass into the government held areas through official chekpoints? Why he allows them to register in administrative centers to get pensions, documents and so on?

Why has the official Kiev (Kiev, not your fake republics) rebuilt a bridge through the Severskiy Donec to enable 'terrorists' to cross the fronlite easily and safely?

Why, why, why…..

And the question remains: if official Kiev loves Donbass so much why does it keeps calling them “terrorist organization”? It’s not gonna male Donbass rush back to Ukraine.

Yes, why, why, why... And your propaganda doesn't give you an answer.

Now it's my propaganda. Whatever works when you can't answer why does official Kiev keeps calling Donbass “terrorist organization”? BTW, it's a fact, it's what official Kiev openly says, nothing to do with my propaganda. They have to be responsible for their own words, not Putin, don't you think?

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?

 

[Stratford57]

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?

Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.

Nevertheless, Happy New Year.



"The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.

 

[ESay]

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?

Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.

Nevertheless, Happy New Year.



"The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.

You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it.

Happy New Year.

 

[Stratford57]

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?

Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.

Nevertheless, Happy New Year.



"The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.

You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it.

Happy New Year.

I started talking about official Kiev calling DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations" in my post #228. Also I asked you to explain to ignorant me WHY so? So far you keep spinning and avoiding the direct answer and on the top of everything blaming me for that. That's just ridiculous. Just like Democrats "impeached" Trump for Biden's crimes.

The reason I asked you was because YOU supported and keep supporting the unconstitutional coup in our country and that ugly Deep State project of "democratic and independent Ukraine". I instead have been participating in all possible peaceful protesting marches for several months even after new Ukrainian rulers threw our people in prisons and burnt peaceful protectors alive in Odessa .

And I still DO NOT understand :
why official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations"

If you can explain please explain if not just say so and we both will stop wasting our time on stupid arguments. But don't give me any more "bridges" and crap, if you would.

 

[ESay]

I think that you are a boring troll. When will you answer to my questions in the post 262?

Well, I replied with #266, and still didn't get any explanation from you. I doubt you even know it yourself.

Nevertheless, Happy New Year.



"The DAY will come", a great song by Ukrainian kobzar Vasily Zhdankin, killed in a strange accident in Ternopol in September.

You replied? Did you? Honey, find somebody else to play a fool with. Maybe this manner of conversation is acceptable in your circle of friends, but I can't abide it.

Happy New Year.

I started talking about official Kiev calling DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations" in my post #228. Also I asked you to explain to ignorant me WHY so? So far you keep spinning and avoiding the direct answer and on the top of everything blaming me for that. That's just ridiculous. Just like Democrats "impeached" Trump for Biden's crimes.

The reason I asked you was because YOU supported and keep supporting the unconstitutional coup in our country and that ugly Deep State project of "democratic and independent Ukraine". I instead have been participating in all possible peaceful protesting marches for several months even after new Ukrainian rulers threw our people in prisons and burnt peaceful protectors alive in Odessa .

And I still DO NOT understand :
why official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations"

If you can explain please explain if not just say so and we both will stop wasting our time on stupid arguments. But don't give me any more "bridges" and crap, if you would.

First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit.

Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on?

It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries.

How can I explain it more?

 

[Stratford57]

First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit.

It’s not me, it’s official Kiev who calls DNR and Lnr and over 3 million people there “terrorist organizations’, don’t spin again.

Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on?

Aren’t Ukrainians doing at least the same (I would say a lot worse) to Donbass? And I’ve never heard any DNR/LNR officially calling Ukraine a terrorist organization, even though Ukrainian rulers since the coup seem to fit that definition. And it was NOT Donbass who came to Kiev and attacked it, it was official Kiev who sent its troops, tanks and even planes to tear Donbass down for voting for their own independence from Ukraine.

Video of 6 women torn apart after Ukrainian planes bombed Luhgansk.


And you are talking about some bridges.

It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries.

DNR and LNR are half of Donbass and they form a geographical area with 3+ million people living there including millions of civilians. That is who Ukrainians call a “terrorist organization”, the whole geographic area. And you seem to find it normal, right?

 

[ESay]

First of all, I want to underline that 'bridges and crap' I mentioned to disovaw your claims that Ukraine considers all people in Donbas as terrorists. An utterly false claim, I want to admit.

It’s not me, it’s official Kiev who calls DNR and Lnr and over 3 million people there “terrorist organizations’, don’t spin again.

Why he calls them so? How should official authorities call an armed group of people who kill their servicemen, seize military hardware, blow up bridges (again bridges, yes) and so on?

Aren’t Ukrainians doing at least the same (I would say a lot worse) to Donbass? And I’ve never heard any DNR/LNR officially calling Ukraine a terrorist organization, even though Ukrainian rulers since the coup seem to fit that definition. And it was NOT Donbass who came to Kiev and attacked it, it was official Kiev who sent its troops, tanks and even planes to tear Donbass down for voting for their own independence from Ukraine.

Video of 6 women torn apart after Ukrainian planes bombed Luhgansk.


And you are talking about some bridges.

It is the same why for example IRA and ETA are considered terrorist organizations in their home countries.

DNR and LNR are half of Donbass and they form a geographical area with 3+ million people living there including millions of civilians. That is who Ukrainians call a “terrorist organization”, the whole geographic area. And you seem to find it normal, right?

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

 

[Stratford57]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

2016:
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

 

[Stratford57]

Human Rights Watch about Ukraine (2018 report):

“For the last year, Kyiv has been treating its human rights obligation as though they were optional,” said Tanya Cooper, Ukraine researcher at Human Rights Watch. “The authorities are carrying out some deeply undemocratic practices and proposing new laws that that undermine Ukrainians’ fundamental freedoms.”

In recent months, Ukraine’s government took several steps to restrict freedom of expression, media freedom, and freedom of association,

The leadership of the State Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) denied its responsibility for secret detention and enforced disappearances, despite numerous, well-documented allegations by former detainees. The military prosecutor’s investigation into these practices yielded no meaningful results.

Justice for crimes committed during the 2014 Maidan protests, which led to the ouster of the Ukrainian government, and for mass disturbances in Odesa remained elusive. Four years after Maidan, authorities appear unwilling to pursue meaningful prosecutions of those responsible for more than 100 deaths and numerous other crimes.

Ukraine: Failing Its Human Rights Commitments

Must be all Putin's fault.

 

[ESay]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016:
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer, btw.

I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

 

[Stratford57]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016: post coup
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

 

[ESay]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016: post coup
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

 

[Stratford57]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016: post coup
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

 

[ESay]

Ukrainian officials restore the territorial integrity of the state. Blame your hero Putin who gave the weapons to the rebels and provoked the answer from Kiev.

The common people aren't considered as terrorists you dishonest troll. I already gave you an answer about that.

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016: post coup
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.

 

[Stratford57]

You have been lecturing me on several pages telling me how “disrespectful” it was not to answering your questions. I thought you would demonstrate me a perfect example of a proper behavior and answer all my questions. But no, you came up with blaming Putin instead. In your previous post you blamed me because Ukrainian officials had been calling DNR, LNR “terrorist organizations”. I would NEVER call DNR and LNR "terrorist organizations", I'd rather call official Kiev and their overseas bosses a terrorist organization.

This absurd of blaming the other side for your own faults and crimes has been a new trend in a failed state of post coup Ukraine (which has also officially become the poorest country in Europe). Ukrainian officials are to cowardly to take responsibility for destroying the country from within.

BTW, during bad Yanukovich times Ukrainian economy, salaries, retirement payments were on the rise. After the coup those above are on huge fall and the prices, the utilities, mortality rate, crimes, Nazis marches and many other “pleasant” things are on the rise. Only zombies can’t see that.

BTW, Happy Nazi Bandera’s day, dear Esay. Did you enjoy Nazis’ torchlight march in Kiev today? Is it Putin’s fault too?

View attachment 297830

2016: post coup
Is Ukraine becoming a failed state?
https://www.quora.com/Is-Ukraine-becoming-a-failed-state

2018:
IMF ranks Ukraine as Europe's poorest country

CEPS EU: Almost three years after the Euromaidan revolution, Ukraine’s leadership has fallen woefully short in delivering on its promises to fight against corruption within the judiciary, clean up political party financing and decentralise government functions. The customs service has yet to be reformed, property rights are far from being ensured and state-owned enterprises have not been privatised. Major reforms aimed at combating corruption have consistently been resisted, delayed, manipulated or appear on paper only. The country’s elite must produce more tangible results in order to earn the trust of the citizens and ease the growing fatigue among Ukraine’s international partners.
https://www.ceps.eu/publications/ukraine’s-unimplemented-anti-corruption-reform

^All Putin's fault, ha?

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.

Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you for explaining it to me so kindly.

As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.

But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.

Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption

Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt bad Yanukovich would allow it). And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on. Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.

 

[ESay]

What question haven't I answered? Specify. If my answer doesn't please you, it doesn't mean that I didn't give an answer,


I blamed you because of your stupid and false claim that Ukraine considers all inhabitants of Donbass as terrorists.

A huge decline in the economy happened in 2014-15. Since then the economy has been rising. Though it hasn't reached a level of 2013 yet. As a whole, the standard of living in Ukraine is disgrace for the country. But it has been so virtually all years since declaring independence.

Btw, if your Yanukovich was so great economist, then why did he need an urgent loan from Russia even without a war inside the country, losing territories and shutting down the Russian market?

I don't celebrate this day. So, there wasn't a need.

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.

Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you for explaining it to me so kindly.

As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.

But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.

Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption

Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt bad Yanukovich would allow it). And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on. Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.

I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation.

Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused.

As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%.

-----------
Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately.

I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that.

--------

Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years.

The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.

 

[Stratford57]

1. If you don't know what's going on in Ukraine it's neither my nor Putin's fault.
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk asked Ukraine's justice ministry, prosecutor general's office and security service Wednesday to take measures to ensure that the DNR and LNR are recognized internationally as terrorist organizations.

Ukraine's parliament passed a resolution calling on the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia to put the two separatist entities on their lists of terrorist groups.
Ukraine FM: Peace Talks May Come in 'Next Few Days'

2. I'm not sure what Yanukovich needed 3 billion for but post coup Ukrainian officials borrowed from IMF a lot more and that doesn't seem to bother you. However yourself, your children and grandchildren (if they exist) will keep paying percentage of this debt for the rest of their lives especially with your "rising economy", ha-ha.
UAWire - Ukraine owes the IMF more than 12 billion dollars

3. Could you please go ahead and see which question of mine you did not answer by yourself, without a help of a "Russian troll"?

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.

Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you for explaining it to me so kindly.

As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.

But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.

Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption

Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt bad Yanukovich would allow it). And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on. Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.

I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation.

Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused.

As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%.

-----------
Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately.

I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that.

--------

Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years.

The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.

And foreigners will easily buy our farm lands through some Ukrainian shell companies very cheap. In such a corrupt Ukrainian swamp that won't be a problem. And I bet there will be something like a referendum among Ukrainian rulers, oligarchs and Soros about selling our lands. It seems to be a done deal, Soros paid for the coup, he wants his money back and Ukrainian lands will be a sweet piece for his old teeth.

We (who have been protesting against the coup) knew for sure: Americans had come to our country not to give us dolce vita (as they promised) but for their own profit (as always). I was coming to the marches with the protest signs (made by myself) like "Where comes America comes the war" written in 2 languages and it was in March and April, before Kiev brought its troops, tanks and planes to Donbass.

Those who needed your approval and help to overthrow bad but dully elected Yanuckovich promised you a lot of good things which never came true. The situation in Ukraine with bad Yanukovich was incomparably better than now and it will only get worse and worse regardless what they will tell you about "economy growth". So far living standards in Ukraine have been going down.

Was that coup worth all that (and many other unpleasant things) after all?

 

[MaryL]

The main stream media informs us about gay penguins. Not so much about esoteric facts. Ukraine has lesser merit than gay penguins. But we can trust the MSM to tell us about things that matter. They are good about being factual, objective and over all. unbiased.

 

[ESay]

Well, I repeat it once more what I wrote above. Maybe you are a little bit slow.

Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. In Ukraine's view the terrorist organizations DNR and LNR dont comprise of all people of Donbass or territories. The terrorist organizations comprise only of those who serve in the rebels' militant groups. Those ones who work in pseudo-state entities the rebels organized may be considered as collaborators.

The territories on which these terrorist groups act are called 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

The common people who live on these territories are the citizens of Ukraine as anyone else who lives on various parts of the country. Various politicians say this, btw, including Zelensky.

----------

A great economist Yanukovich also sought a cooperation with IMF, btw.

Yeas, the amount of dept in comparison to GDP rose more than two- fold in the past several years. But it never reached more than 85% of GDP. And maybe you know that 2019 and 2020 are the years of the biggest payments. The biggest debt to GDP ratio was in 2016 IIRC (more than 80%). It is estimated that this year it will drop to the ratio of 65% or so.

------

No, thanks. Repeat the question if you will. I don't have much desire to scroll back through all our fruitful conversation.

The conversation has been really "fruitful", I agree with that. On several pages you've been accusing me in calling LNR&DNR terrorist organizations and finally admitted that it was not me but official Ukraine who had invented that nonsense.

At least Russia, "the aggressor" (as you call her in Ukraine!) agreed to forgive Ukraine her debt (given to her during Yanukovich presidency which you were bitching about), good luck with the debt to IMF though.
Naftogaz Receives $2.9 Billion Payment From Gazprom With New Agreement

About the rest: learn how help yourself.

Oh, dear. 2.9 billion Naftogaz got from Gazprom have nothing to do whatsoever with so called debt of Yanukovich.

The Gazprom's payment was according to the ruling of Stokholm arbitrage. And payment of this money was one of preconditions Ukraine put on the table before signing the transit contract.

The case about the debt of Yanukovich has been considered in British courts. The final ruling is expected this year.

It was weird to mix up these two separate cases, even for you.

Ok, seems like I misunderstood something, what a big deal. Thank you for explaining it to me so kindly.

As far a I know Ukraine isn’t going to pay those 3 billion to Russia anyway.

But Ukraine still owes a lot more to IMF and so far is able to pay percentage while the debt keeps growing same way as the pockets of Ukrainian oligarchs.

Over $12 billion disappears from Ukraine’s budget every year, and global graft watchdog Transparency International ranks the country as Europe’s most corrupt.
Why Ukraine Must Outsource Its Fight Against Corruption

Also new Ukrainian rulers are going to sell Ukrainian great farmers lands to foreigners cheap, that was probably one of the main goals of arranging the coup (I doubt bad Yanukovich would allow it). And what were they promising to you encouraging you to help them to remove a dully elected president: European future, no oligarchs, no corruption and so on and on. Which promises have been fulfilled, may be you know? Only no visa for trips to Europe which the vast majority can't afford anyway.

I don't know about paying the debt. The odds are that Ukraine will lose the case against Russia. But at the same time, Ukraine has filled various lawsuits against Russia about state properties lost in Crimea. There is a possibility that this debt will be nullified as a form of compensation.

Actually, in 2014 Ukraine proposed Russia to prolong and repay this debt at the terms proposed to private investors. But Moscow refused.

As I wrote above, the debt-to-GDP ratio should drop to 65%.

-----------
Yes, corruption is the foremost problem in Ukraine. Your articles are from 2015-16 years, but much of them is true today too, unfortunately.

I fully support so called outsourcing of corruption fighting. And this possibility was seriously discussed a couple of years ago. But there are groups of people with big money who do everything to thwart that.

--------

Actually, it is not the current rulers who want to do that. Formally, the law which allows to sell agricultural lands was passed in 2002. But this law established a five-year moratorium as a temporal measure. On the practice, the moratorium has been extended for almost 20 years.

The law which will cancel this moratorium and establish land market will allow only Ukrainian citizens and companies to buy the land. The permission for foreigners to do that must be approved on a referendum. It is according to the government project.

And foreigners will easily buy our farm lands through some Ukrainian shell companies very cheap. In such a corrupt Ukrainian swamp that won't be a problem. And I bet there will be something like a referendum among Ukrainian rulers, oligarchs and Soros about selling our lands. It seems to be a done deal, Soros paid for the coup, he wants his money back and Ukrainian lands will be a sweet piece for his old teeth.

We (who have been protesting against the coup) knew for sure: Americans had come to our country not to give us dolce vita (as they promised) but for their own profit (as always). I was coming to the marches with the protest signs (made by myself) like "Where comes America comes the war" written in 2 languages and it was in March and April, before Kiev brought its troops, tanks and planes to Donbass.

Those who needed your approval and help to overthrow bad but dully elected Yanuckovich promised you a lot of good things which never came true. The situation in Ukraine with bad Yanukovich was incomparably better than now and it will only get worse and worse regardless what they will tell you about "economy growth". So far living standards in Ukraine have been going down.

Was that coup worth all that (and many other unpleasant things) after all?

I won't comment on the stuff about Soros. In a nutshell - I think you over-estimate his influence on global affair.

You use such strange rhetoric... Bad Yanukovich, promises from someone, someone should give you something. Are you a child?

No one owes you nothing in this world. You should trust only your close relatives and very close friends. No one is going to 'give' you anything.

You and I have absolutely different mentality.
What irritated me the most in Yanukovich was not his refusing to sign an agreement with the EU per se. It was just a final drop. What I despised in him was his desire to create in Ukraine a second Russia - with a single ruling party, pocket opposition, with the parliament and the courts to be virtually offshoots of the administration, with large and totally subjued bureacratic apparat and so on. And on the top of it should stand his clan of course.

This system of power was going to fall anyway. Except of that, the economic situation was not so cloudless as you want to imply. In the last two years of his rule there was stagnation in the econony, the central bank annualy sold some of its reserves to support the exchange rate of the currency. And that is just two things which i remembered the first.

For me the question 'was the coup worth it' sounds ridiculous. Because as I said above his system of power was going to fall anyway.