Breeding Nazis in Ukraine, has American Media reported you about that?

[Stratford57]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

 

[Stratford57]

Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.

But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.

Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”

Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students

Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.

and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.

same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.

Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool

It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.

You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.

 

[Bleipriester]

Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.

But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.

Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”

Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students

Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.

and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.

same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.

Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool

It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.

You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.

Hillary is President.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[ESay]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

 

[Stratford57]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

 

[ESay]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?

 

[Stratford57]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?

As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "the territories" of Donbass. With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.

CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :

Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html

These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.

 

[ESay]

Of course Zelensky controls the troops. But if we are talking about so called volunteers, then this is not so simple.

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Some journalist asked Avakov about the result of negotiations. He gave his answer. So, what is the problem?

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?

As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "the territories" of Donbass. With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.

CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :

Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html

These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.

I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?

 

[Stratford57]

If he controlled the troops they could clean up the mess with those "volunteers" on the border (which is only 400+km if I'm not mistaken) and withdraw from it within several months, not 10 years. But the problem is that Ukrainian chief and commander seems to be afraid of those "volunteers". I can't think about any other explanations.

Talking "No Capitulation" about his boss in public seems normal to you?

To me it looked like Avakov brought a virgin to Paris and left her alone with machos for six hours. After that he was happy to tell the crowd: "She's still a virgin!" Unethical, stupid, ridiculous, embarrassing.

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?

As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "the territories" of Donbass. With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.

CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :

Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html

These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.

I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?

Have you?

In case you haven't:

Here are the key points of the new plan :

1. Immediate and full bilateral ceasefire

To take effect in parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, from 00:00 local time on 15 February (22:00 GMT on 14 February).

2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides

To equal distances to create a buffer zone of: at least 50km (30 miles) separating both sides for artillery systems of 100mm calibre or more; 70km for multiple rocket systems and 140km for the heaviest rocket and missile systems such as Tornado, Uragan, Smerch and Tochka.

Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline.

Separatist forces to withdraw theirs from the line of 19 September 2014.

Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks. The OSCE security body will assist in the process.

3. Effective monitoring and verification regime for the ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons

To be carried out by the OSCE from day one, using all necessary technology such as satellites and radar.

4. From day one of the withdrawal begin a dialogue on the holding of local elections

In line with the Ukrainian law on temporary self-rule for parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. There will also be a dialogue on those areas' political future.

5. Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict

6. Release of all hostages and other illegally detained people

On the basis of "all for all". To be completed at the latest on the fifth day after the military withdrawal.

Image copyrightAFPImage captionThe Minsk leaders (from left: Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel, Petro Poroshenko)

7. Unimpeded delivery of humanitarian aid to the needy, internationally supervised

8. Restoration of full social and economic links with affected areas

Including social transfers, such as payment of pensions. To that end, Ukraine will restore its banking services in districts affected by the conflict.

9. Full Ukrainian government control will be restored over the state border, throughout the conflict zone

To begin on the first day after local elections, and be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015. (Local elections in rebel-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk regions will be based on Ukrainian law and a constitutional reform.)

10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory

To be monitored by the OSCE. All illegal groups to be disarmed.

11. Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with adoption of a new constitution by the end of 2015

Ukraine ceasefire: New Minsk agreement

Withdrawal still remains one step of many. So?

 

[Stratford57]

Bleipriester , I do not agree with everything Trump says and does. But he's Deep State's wortst enemy and Deep State is our worst enemy . And an enemy of my enemy is my friend. In any case I think Trump is an honest and brave person and a patriot to be able to confront with the most powerful in the world Deep State machine which has destroyed lots of those tho dared to disagree with them.

But I would care less about USA if they just minded their own business and did NOT interfere in my home country of Ukraine. But they did and now "independent" Ukraine is totally dependent on Americans, their Deep State. Biden's case is just a tip of the iceberg of their corruption and crimes in Ukraine.

Franko Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign affairs: “What happens in Washington doesn’t stay in Washington: it comes to my country, it affects everybody I’d like to tell my USA colleagues: don’t make one sided decisions. EU sometimes is afraid to stand for its interests especially when its interests contradict USA interests. And it’s not right.”

Press conference during Moscow Festival of Youth and Students

Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.

and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.

same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.

Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool

It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.

You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.

Hillary is President.

President of what? May be of those:

or those:

?

Or all above? Choose wisely before you answer.

 

[Bleipriester]

Phrump is the filth of Deep State, shat into office by Deep State with false slogans of peace and taking back America.

and anybody who thinks otherwise that he is any different than warmongers Bush and Obama and clinton before them,those doubts can be put to rest right here and now.

same as Bush clinton and obama,he is a servant to the bankers and the CIA.

Why Trump Is A Rothschild Tool

It is Christmas Eve, so lets not insult the orange phrump at least for this day.

You guys better start thanking God that Hillary did not become POTUS. Otherwise you all would have already been transgenders and at war with Russia. Merry Christmas.

Hillary is President.

President of what? May be of those:

View attachment 296676


or those:

View attachment 296677

?

Or all above? Choose wisely before you answer.

Trump, Clinton, there is no difference for your country or mine.
Again, you want Trump, you get him only together with your nazi puppets, deep state and all the other shit you didn´t like about Obama. So, stop the whining.

 

[ESay]

First of all, it isn't a border. It is a frontline.

As I said before, the pullback from the entire frontline isnt possible as an isolated action. The full scale pullback will be possible when political settlement of the conflict really begins.

As I said before I don't consider the Avakov's comment as something special. Avakov didn't bring anyone. That is ridiculous.

Zelensky hadn't had expierence in political and diplomatic affairs. And some people thought that he wasnt be able to hold pressure from his 'partners'. But it seems that he was good.

And that's the major problem in Ukraine: those who support a new Washington project called "Independent Ukraine" consider normal the things which are far from normal and visa versa. Thanks to crooked Media, politicians, teachers, etc. who keep working for foreign agents [like Deep State] against their own people.

That's why Crimea has already left Ukraine, Donbass is about to leave and Eastern Ukraine is hoping to leave one day.

How is that Donbas about to leave? Haven't you heard about the Minsk agreements? Haven't your musters of puppets from the Kremlin told you that it is official Kiev doesn't want Donbas returning and is doing everything to prevent this?

As far as I know official Kiev calls DNR and LNR "terrorists organizations" and only wants to return "the territories" of Donbass. With such a "friendly" approach and with withdrawing stretched for 10 years (and it's only one of many steps mentioned in Minsk Agreements) Ukraine can kiss Donbass good bye. Besides Ukrainian officials (unlike their brainwashed sheep) know who keeps shelling Donbass and killing its civilians for 5 last years, and it's not Putin. I doubt the Donbass people can ever trust Ukraine again as long as it stays under Deep State and Nazi control.

CIS-EMO political analyst of an International Monitoring Organization, Stanislav Byshok :

Honestly, I don’t understand why Ukraine needs Donbass. Let’s suggest tomorrow all the rebels will put their weapons aside and Ukraine will have its border with Russia back, what will Ukraine gain? Four million people, who have a lot of reasons to hate Ukraine, all those people will have to be supplied with jobs and food.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/the-truth-about-ukraine-byshoks-lecture.html

These people will NEVER vote for Deep State Ukrainian puppets and those puppets know that pretty darn well.

I have one question - Have you ever read the Minsk agreements?

Have you?

In case you haven't:

Here are the key points of the new plan :

1. Immediate and full bilateral ceasefire

To take effect in parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, from 00:00 local time on 15 February (22:00 GMT on 14 February).

2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides

To equal distances to create a buffer zone of: at least 50km (30 miles) separating both sides for artillery systems of 100mm calibre or more; 70km for multiple rocket systems and 140km for the heaviest rocket and missile systems such as Tornado, Uragan, Smerch and Tochka.

Ukrainian troops to withdraw heavy weapons from the current frontline.

Separatist forces to withdraw theirs from the line of 19 September 2014.

Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks. The OSCE security body will assist in the process.

3. Effective monitoring and verification regime for the ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons

To be carried out by the OSCE from day one, using all necessary technology such as satellites and radar.

4. From day one of the withdrawal begin a dialogue on the holding of local elections

In line with the Ukrainian law on temporary self-rule for parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. There will also be a dialogue on those areas' political future.

5. Pardon and amnesty by banning any prosecution of figures involved in the Donetsk and Luhansk conflict

6. Release of all hostages and other illegally detained people

On the basis of "all for all". To be completed at the latest on the fifth day after the military withdrawal.

Image copyrightAFPImage captionThe Minsk leaders (from left: Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel, Petro Poroshenko)

7. Unimpeded delivery of humanitarian aid to the needy, internationally supervised

8. Restoration of full social and economic links with affected areas

Including social transfers, such as payment of pensions. To that end, Ukraine will restore its banking services in districts affected by the conflict.

9. Full Ukrainian government control will be restored over the state border, throughout the conflict zone

To begin on the first day after local elections, and be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015. (Local elections in rebel-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk regions will be based on Ukrainian law and a constitutional reform.)

10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory

To be monitored by the OSCE. All illegal groups to be disarmed.

11. Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with adoption of a new constitution by the end of 2015

Ukraine ceasefire: New Minsk agreement

Withdrawal still remains one step of many. So?

Direct answer to the questions is a sign of respect to the one you are talking with and honesty. I am not particularly too high in expectations of this from you, but try not to answer questions with questions. Otherwise you are becoming boring.

If you have read the agreements, you should know that the mutual pullback should de done from the frontline which was established as of 29 Sept 2014. Do you understand what this means in practice?

 

[Stratford57]

Direct answer to the questions is a sign of respect to the one you are talking with and honesty. I am not particularly too high in expectations of this from you, but try not to answer questions with questions. Otherwise you are becoming boring.

I understand that you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply to my post #228 which you "replied" with a question.

If you have read the agreements, you should know that the mutual pullback should de done from the frontline which was established as of 29 Sept 2014. Do you understand what this means in practice?

I understand that "mutual pullback should be done from the front line " and it's just one step of many. And also I understand the words "be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015" and it's the end of 2019 today.

Also I understand the words "Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks", not 10 years like Zelensky wants.

Anything else I need to understand?

 

[ESay]

I understand that you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. BTW, I'm still waiting for your reply to my post #228 which you "replied" with a question.

I don't try to make anything. Something tells me that you hadn't read them before my answer. I just prove for myself how uninformed you are.

What should I reply to your post? There weren't any direct questions.

Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.

 

[ESay]

understand that "mutual pullback should be done from the front line " and it's just one step of many. And also I understand the words "be completed after a comprehensive political settlement, by the end of 2015" and it's the end of 2019 today.

Also I understand the words "Heavy weapons withdrawal must start no later than day two of the ceasefire and be completed within two weeks", not 10 years like Zelensky wants.

Anything else I need to understand?

Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?

 

[Stratford57]

Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.

So, Ukraine wants to return the "territories" without people or the people of DLNR as well (which Ukraine considers "terrorist organizations")?

It means either ethnic cleansing in Donbass (if Ukraine ever gets control of it) or bringing 4 million of "terrorists" to Ukraine.

What exactly does official Kiev want?

 

[Stratford57]

Actually, you understand nothing. According to the Minsk agreements the pullback should be done from the frontline as of September 2014. According to this frontline the city of Debaltsevo belongs to the government held territory. If we are talking about the pullback from the entire frontline, then when the rebels will get out from the city and the surrounding area?

No, I do not understand why Debaltsevo matters so much: it's just one of 100+ settlements which both sides have to withdraw from. And according to Minsk agreements it should be done a lot sooner that 10 years (which Zelensky has suggested).

Putin, on the contrary, wants to stay with Minsk agreements without revising them.

Putin: There is nothing more important than the Minsk Agreements. Of course, I was worried by the statement made by President Zelensky after he left Paris to the effect that they could be revised. If we revise the Minsk Agreements, the settlement process will hit a dead end, because the main element of the Minsk Agreements is a law on the special status of Donbass, which must be formalised in the Ukrainian Constitution. It has been extended for a year, but not permanently, although we keep saying – not only do I, but the other Normandy format leaders say so as well – that the law must be of unlimited duration and that its formula must be incorporated in the Constitution. However, it appears that neither the previous nor the current Ukrainian leadership wants this. But there is no way around it. This is the first point.
Vladimir Putin’s annual news conference

Putin: Mr Zelensky and I have different positions on this issue. Our position is very simple: we stand for the implementation of the Minsk Agreements. The Minsk Agreements say – you can read it for yourself – that Ukraine will be able to start restoring control over that territory, over that section of the border on day one after the local elections. This is what it says. And this process should end after the completion of a comprehensive political settlement. This is what the text of the agreement says. Why should the Minsk Agreements be reopened and revised? All the measures set out in that package are interconnected. If we revise one of them, this will lead to the revision of others and we will lose the agreements and create a situation where nothing can be done. This is our logic, and I believe that it is justified.
Joint news conference following a Normandy format summit

 

[eagle1462010]

So..........are both sides still firing on each other and are they still manning front line positions there?

 

[ESay]

Yes, Ukraine considers DLNR as terrorist organizations. There are no these quasi-state entities in the agreements. There are 'particular districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts'.

Why to return them? Because it is a Ukrainian territory. But we should find a way of co-existense in the single state. There are no simple answers how to do that.

So, Ukraine wants to return the "territories" without people or the people of DLNR as well (which Ukraine considers "terrorist organizations")?

It means either ethnic cleansing in Donbass (if Ukraine ever gets control of it) or bringing 4 million of "terrorists" to Ukraine.

What exactly does official Kiev want?

I am not a lawyer, but only those ones who participate in military units of the rebels are considered terrorists. Those ones who hold an official post in their pseudo state branches of authority can be considered as collaborators. It is my understanding.

Saying that all people in Donbas are considered as terrorists is absurd.