BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME...

[Shusha]

The rules and thumbnail explanations cited here are give rise the the ramification that you cannot claim that which is already under sovereign control.

You are confusing military control with sovereign control. Military control is occupation and occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

You have a habit of deliberately ignoring relevant facts which are in contradiction to your agenda. As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty. There are also a number of other methods of acquiring sovereignty. Your failure is in focusing on Israel's supposed military control as though it occurred in a vacuum, while ignoring all the other circumstances which lead to Israel's sovereignty.

 

[Hollie]

First: The CABLEGRAM DATED • 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 by the All Palestine Government (APG), came four months after the Israeli Declaration of 15 MAY.

So?

So, either you don’t understand and need extra help or you do understand and prefer to retreat to a pointless conjunction.

1) The Palestinian Declaration came 4 months too late. They missed the bus. "The early bird catches the worm."

2) This "All Palestine Government" was controlled by Egypt.

What makes you say too late. The Palestinians do not need anyone's approval to declare independence.

However, absent any meaningful processes or mechanisms to declare independence and to establish sovereignty and to maintain a semblance of a working government and social order, we’re left with what we have now: rival, antagonistic tribes that are wholly unable to conform to some very basic codes of behavior that define a functioning society.

 

[Shusha]

What makes you say too late. The Palestinians do not need anyone's approval to declare independence.

They DO need an effective government, a defined territory over which they exert at least some control, a permanent population and the ability to treat with other sovereigns (at least some recognition).

 

[RoccoR]

RE: BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I must remind you that everyone has the right to self-determination all people have the right to sovereignty and territorial integrity.

BUT, you must first understand what a "RIGHT" is versus what an "OBLIGATION" is... This will help you understand the mistake you are making.

First: The CABLEGRAM DATED • 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 by the All Palestine Government (APG), came four months after the Israeli Declaration of 15 MAY.

So?

(COMMENT)

In our discussions, we often refer to "rights" (sometimes coupled (Human Rights Law) of all kinds.

Rights Law is :

• A requirement to refrain from interfering with or curtailing the enjoyment of the rights. That is the claimant asserting the "right" has no authority to make demands for tangibles.
​

Obligation is:

• The requirement means that States must take positive action to facilitate or surrender something tangible.

※ You have the "right" to own a car. But, no one has the obligation to give you a car.
※ You have the right to freedom of religion, but no one has an obligation to present a religion, no one has requirement to transport you to the religion or to present you with a religion: or the requirement to even have a religion.​

In the case of the 1948 APG Independence Announcement, (First) the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) represented the Arab Palestinian People; not the APG. It was the AHC that addressed the various rejections to participate in the activities concerning the development of self-governing institutions. (Second) The Arab Palestinians cannot come in after the fact, and → demand sovereignty over territory that they formally declined in the participation of self-determination. The APG cannot demad territorial sovereignty over territory defended by the Arab League and under international cease-fire for which there was no Arab Palestinian representative.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

Indeed, you cannot offer a case where rival, antagonistic Islamic tribes have either the ability or the wherewithal to establish sovereignty and a working government.

 

[RoccoR]

BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I think it is yo that is confused.

The rules and thumbnail explanations cited here are give rise the the ramification that you cannot claim that which is already under sovereign control.

You are confusing military control with sovereign control. Military control is occupation and occupations do not acquire sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

One More Time:

• Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State. (See: Abdulrahim ibid)

• The right to territorial sovereignty enables a State to exercise the fullest measures of sovereignty powers over its land territory. (See: Abdulrahim ibid)​

https://sites.google.com/site/walid...e-territory-and-territorial-sovereignty#_ftn3
I don't remember (other than the Oslo Accords) when the Arab Palestinians exercised the duty of a state or exercised sovereignty over a territory of the state. That is, with the possible exception of Area "A."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is the claimant asserting the "right" has no authority to make demands for tangibles.

What have the Palestinians ever demanded from others?

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

Territorial sovereignty is all about control. The use of a military force is just a tool to achieve that goal.

v/r
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory,

Which is? Do you have a map of Israel without those phony armistice lines?

 

[Shusha]

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

Debatable.

 

[P F Tinmore]

et al,

Territorial sovereignty is all about control. The use of a military force is just a tool to achieve that goal.

v/r
R

No it isn't.

ARTICLE 4​

​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933​

You are still implying that those with the guns have all the rights.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

Debatable.

Are you saying that Israel's occupation of Palestine is peaceful?

 

[P F Tinmore]

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

Debatable.

I'm open. State your case.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: BREAKING: The UN concludes that Israel has established an APARTHEID REGIME...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Jewish State has ots of patience.

As Rocco deftly pointed out -- there are circumstances when military occupations DO, in fact, acquire sovereignty.

Indeed, a long term, peaceful, uncontested occupation can eventually acquire sovereignty.

Those conditions have never been met by Israel's occupation of Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Many things are happening at once in the region.

IF the normal state for Palestine, established through historical findings, is civil unrest and street level violence is the most often recorded condition, THEN the conditional standard indicates normality.

All Israel has to do is maintain effective control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

IF the normal state for Palestine, established through historical findings, is civil unrest and street level violence is the most often recorded condition, THEN the conditional standard indicates normality.

Remember, Palestine was founded under belligerent occupation. The Palestinians merely resisted that aggression.

 

[Indeependent]

Who cares what the UN says about Israel? I think the UN is a worthless, bias, power hungry organization that should have been abandoned decades ago. See how that works?

Like before 1948? The world sure would be a helluva lot better off had they not given Palestine to extremist Jews.

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

I believe you meant to say - gave it back to them. The land belonged to the Jews before their return. It's their land.

Extremist Jews? I've never heard of an extremist Jew before. Just like I've never hear of a jihadist Jew, a Jewish terrorist or a Jewish suicide bomber.

The Canaanites occupied the Levant prior to the first Jewish invasion .

The Shemites were invaded by the Canaanites...checkmate.

That's interesting. Do you mean Shem, King of Jerusalem, who blessed Abraham after his nephew Lot was captured?

Yes.
Genesis, Chapter 10.
The Canaanites, along with the other families of Ham took Gaza.
Anyone who says anything is completely full of shit.

 

[Indeependent]

Like before 1948? The world sure would be a helluva lot better off had they not given Palestine to extremist Jews.

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

I believe you meant to say - gave it back to them. The land belonged to the Jews before their return. It's their land.

Extremist Jews? I've never heard of an extremist Jew before. Just like I've never hear of a jihadist Jew, a Jewish terrorist or a Jewish suicide bomber.

The Canaanites occupied the Levant prior to the first Jewish invasion .

The Shemites were invaded by the Canaanites...checkmate.

That's interesting. Do you mean Shem, King of Jerusalem, who blessed Abraham after his nephew Lot was captured?

The Caananites and subsequent Phonecians were known to precede the Israelites. But my question is were the Caanites themselves Israelites os a different tribe.All people of the era descended from NOAH. but Caanan was isolated from their Jewish fold and were made to he enemies that needed to be conquered. Very strange.

The Shemites preceded everyone and you damn well know it.
Genesis, Chapter 10.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Like before 1948? The world sure would be a helluva lot better off had they not given Palestine to extremist Jews.

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

I believe you meant to say - gave it back to them. The land belonged to the Jews before their return. It's their land.

Extremist Jews? I've never heard of an extremist Jew before. Just like I've never hear of a jihadist Jew, a Jewish terrorist or a Jewish suicide bomber.

The Canaanites occupied the Levant prior to the first Jewish invasion .

The Shemites were invaded by the Canaanites...checkmate.

That's interesting. Do you mean Shem, King of Jerusalem, who blessed Abraham after his nephew Lot was captured?

Yes.
Genesis, Chapter 10.
The Canaanites, along with the other families of Ham took Gaza.
Anyone who says anything is completely full of shit.

According to Genesis, Chapter 10, verses 15--20, the border of the Canaanites was from Zidon in the north (present-day Lebanon) to Gerar and/or Gaza in the south (present-day Hamasland in Gaza) to Sodom and Gomorrah in the east (present-day Dead Sea area).

Chapter 12: 6--"And Abram passed thru the land unto the place of Shechem...and the Canaanite was then in the Land."

Every Yeshiva boy knows that Joshua and the Israelites conquered the Land of Canaan from the Canaanites. What are you referring to?

 

[Indeependent]

I believe you meant to say - gave it back to them. The land belonged to the Jews before their return. It's their land.

Extremist Jews? I've never heard of an extremist Jew before. Just like I've never hear of a jihadist Jew, a Jewish terrorist or a Jewish suicide bomber.

The Canaanites occupied the Levant prior to the first Jewish invasion .

The Shemites were invaded by the Canaanites...checkmate.

That's interesting. Do you mean Shem, King of Jerusalem, who blessed Abraham after his nephew Lot was captured?

Yes.
Genesis, Chapter 10.
The Canaanites, along with the other families of Ham took Gaza.
Anyone who says anything is completely full of shit.

According to Genesis, Chapter 10, verses 15--20, the border of the Canaanites was from Zidon in the north (present-day Lebanon) to Gerar and/or Gaza in the south (present-day Hamasland in Gaza) to Sodom and Gomorrah in the east (present-day Dead Sea area).

Chapter 12: 6--"And Abram passed thru the land unto the place of Shechem...and the Canaanite was then in the Land."

Every Yeshiva boy knows that Joshua and the Israelites conquered the Land of Canaan from the Canaanites. What are you referring to?

That's exactly the point I'm making that the Jew haters want to deny.
The Jew haters keep claiming the Canaanites were the first to settle in Israel proper.