Breaking: SCOTUS ends Affirmative Action in university race-based admissions

[tahuyaman]

Affirmative action assumes that many black people are less qualified and therefore need affirmative action.
Affirmative action too often denies the qualified the respect and appreciation they deserve.

That isn't a myth. That's a fact.

Many could be less qualified, but that doesn’t mean they are less capable. Let’s focus on increasing their academic performance throughout their primary and secondary education. Let’s encourage everyone to live up to their potential. Let’s stop the soft bigotry of low expectations.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think that's a good thing. The state has no business dictating the admissions policies of private colleges.

It is the state's business when the state is funding the private college through direct funding as well as Pell grants et al. to the tune of $680 billion a year and constitutes between 16 and 20% of college funding.

 

[Coyote]

My second generation Italian brother-in-law does not have the same cultural experience as other people. As a white person who was born into and has lived below the poverty line for quite a number of years, I do not have the same cultural experience as somehow who was born into the middle or upper class. The small town person does not have the same cultural experience as the city person. The Christian does not have the same cultural experience as the Jew or Muslim. Very few of us have identical cultural experiences as anybody else. My cultural experience is quite different than the black person born into affluence.

Experiencing poverty or any other of a thousand other circumstances of my life is part of my life experience but it does not define me. It doesn't dictate what I think, what I believe, what I know, what I can do.

Against to hold up diversity of race as desirable and forbid diversity of thought, perspective, ability, perception is so backward I don't know where to begin. But that's exactly where we find ourselves in far too much of institutional America these days.

All of the above doesn’t define you but it shaped you. It helped make you the person you are today. We aren’t formed in a vacuumed. More important, it gave you unique perspectives and strengths that you can share with others, wouldn’t you agree?

You, as a woman, of a certain era (me too) had very different experiences and challenges than a man did. Growing up poor had to have equipped you with strengths and self-reliance that another might not have. Even then…growing up poor in a rural, but relatively safe area would be different than growing up poor in an urban area where gangs and drugs and shootings are common. Growing up as a girl, poor, in a place when many girls were pregnant by 16….that has to shape someone. And they are all different.

The fact is growing up as a woman is different than growing up as a man, and in this society, the same is true when it comes to race. One vivid and blunt example is what happened to Ahmad Arbry. That would never have happened to a White person there. You can’t just discount race (or gender, or sexual orientation, or ethnicity, or religion) when it comes to diversity because as groups, they have unique challenges to overcome.

The other thing I disagree with is this:

Against to hold up diversity of race as desirable and forbid diversity of thought, perspective, ability, perception is so backward I don't know where to begin.

No one is “forbidding“ diversity of thought, ability, perspective, or perception among applicants….in fact, I would think all that comes out when you take into account things like economic status, geographical locations, resumes etc.

Why does it have to be one or the other….that considering race in diversity means everything else is then labeled “undesirable”? That CLEARLY is not the case when you look at the admission demographics.

 

[dblack]

It is the state's business when the state is funding the private college through direct funding as well as Pell grants et al. to the tune of $680 billion a year and constitutes between 16 and 20% of college funding.

Then the proper remedy is to revoke the funding. Not use it as an excuse to dictate their admissions policies.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

By ruling in favor of Asian minority?

Are you always this stupid or today is a special occasion?

Dumbass they didn't rule in favor of Asians, this will be seen in coming years.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

You don't have a clue what I know or who I think benefitted from AA.
But have a lovely evening.

I know you don't know a damn thing about AA.

 

[Ame®icano]

The Court just made it legal to discriminate, again. Why in the hell do you think AA was created in the first place, fool.

LBJ bought your votes with it.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Let's see... you said:
View attachment 800882

Tell me what I got wrong please...

View attachment 800884

When did the first slaves come to these shores?

 

[Foxfyre]

Many could be less qualified, but that doesn’t mean they are less capable. Let’s focus on increasing their academic performance throughout their primary and secondary education. Let’s encourage everyone to live up to their potential. Let’s stop the soft bigotry of low expectations.

The point is not whether they are qualified or capable though most of us in affirmative action situations have witnessed at least one or more cases where somebody got the job because of their sex or skin color and were not capable or qualified to do the job. Affirmative action by its very nature lowers standards (including expectations) and unfortunately that taints perception of those who actually do qualify and merit their position.

If we have true equality everybody has to meet the same standards regardless of their sex or skin color or sexual orientation or anything else.

These people who claim removing affirmative action allows discrimination would scream bloody murder if the high court required that photos and race be omitted from college applications and admissions be on merit alone.

 

[Unkotare]

The point is not whether they are qualified or capable though most of us in affirmative action situations have witnessed at least one or more cases where somebody got the job because of their sex or skin color and were not capable or qualified to do the job. Affirmative action by its very nature lowers standards (including expectations) and unfortunately that taints perception of those who actually do qualify and merit their position.

If we have true equality everybody has to meet the same standards regardless of their sex or skin color or sexual orientation or anything else.

These people who claim removing affirmative action allows discrimination would scream bloody murder if the high court required that photos and race be omitted from college applications and admissions be on merit alone.

"Photos"?

 

[Ame®icano]

Dumbass they didn't rule in favor of Asians, this will be seen in coming years.

Let's see, Asians file lawsuit against discriminating admission practices at Harvard.
Supreme court rules against Harvard, and you say they didn't rule in favor of Asians.

My first thought here was - You can't possibly be this dumb.
And this time, you proved me wrong. You can.

 

[2aguy]

The Court has ruled you can no longer use race to discriminate against others. Everyone should welcome this ruling.

When racism is your primary tool, weapon and shield, then when racism ends....the democrats have nothing to offer...

 

[Foxfyre]

All of the above doesn’t define you but it shaped you. It helped make you the person you are today. We aren’t formed in a vacuumed. More important, it gave you unique perspectives and strengths that you can share with others, wouldn’t you agree?

You, as a woman, of a certain era (me too) had very different experiences and challenges than a man did. Growing up poor had to have equipped you with strengths and self-reliance that another might not have. Even then…growing up poor in a rural, but relatively safe area would be different than growing up poor in an urban area where gangs and drugs and shootings are common. Growing up as a girl, poor, in a place when many girls were pregnant by 16….that has to shape someone. And they are all different.

The fact is growing up as a woman is different than growing up as a man, and in this society, the same is true when it comes to race. One vivid and blunt example is what happened to Ahmad Arbry. That would never have happened to a White person there. You can’t just discount race (or gender, or sexual orientation, or ethnicity, or religion) when it comes to diversity because as groups, they have unique challenges to overcome.

The other thing I disagree with is this:



No one is “forbidding“ diversity of thought, ability, perspective, or perception among applicants….in fact, I would think all that comes out when you take into account things like economic status, geographical locations, resumes etc.

Why does it have to be one or the other….that considering race in diversity means everything else is then labeled “undesirable”? That CLEARLY is not the case when you look at the admission demographics.

Everything I have experienced in life informs me in some way. But it absolutely does not define who I am, what I know, what I believe, what I think, what I can do.

And if you think nobody is forbidding diversity of thought, etc., you just try to express pro life beliefs or defend traditional marriage or question AGW as a primary driving force of climate change or hold up John Locke and the French classical liberal economists as examples of what our government should be or criticize CRT or use the wrong pronouns or say people who transgender or mentally ill or bring cold watermelon for a treat for a black colleague and see how long you are welcome or even hold your job in government, education, entertainment, scientific institutions, and many religion institutions these days.

It's PC, woke, and accept our doctrines or nothing with most leftists these days. All others should be punished, banished, excluded, disrespected.

 

[Ame®icano]

When did the first slaves come to these shores?

What is the party that supported slavery until slavery ended?

 

[Foxfyre]

Then the proper remedy is to revoke the funding. Not use it as an excuse to dictate their admissions policies.

The point SCOTUS made is you can't use the taxpayers money and discriminate against people re skin color. The decision was made on existing law.

They did NOT forbid universities from establishing affirmative action policies, but that permission must be made by Congress and nobody should be looking to the courts to get Congress off the hook there.

"Equal rights for all races means that people of all races and ethnicities are treated in an egalitarian/equal manner, and institutions give individuals legal, moral, and political rights1. This is also known as racial equality. Civil rights are guarantees of equal social opportunities and equal protection under the law, regardless of race, religion, or other personal characteristics."

That is a summary of the civil rights law passed in 1964.

 

[Foxfyre]

I know you don't know a damn thing about AA.

You mean other than teaching it at university level? Again have a lovely evening.

 

[Coyote]

Affirmative action assumes that many black people are less qualified and therefore need affirmative action.
Affirmative action too often denies the qualified the respect and appreciation they deserve.

That isn't a myth. That's a fact.

I actually support the ending of AA as a program, it has gone as far as it can in what it was needed for, which was essentially to open closed doors and force schools and employers to stop discriminating on the basis of race, gender or disability.

That does not mean the people were less qualified. In reality…were some less qualified? Sure, in terms of educational qualifications. But was their job performance worse? No.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/209930#:~:text=We%20find%20evidence%20of%20lower,and%20female%20Affirmative%20Action%20hires.

We use microlevel data on employers and employees from a sample of establishments in four major metropolitan areas in the United States to investigate whether Affirmative Action leads to the hiring of minority or female employees who are less qualified. Our measures of qualifications include the educational attainment of the workers hired and a variety of outcome measures related to worker performance on the job. We find evidence of lower educational qualifications among women and minorities hired under Affirmative Action. However, we do not find evidence of weaker job performance among most groups of minority and female Affirmative Action hires.

And, I’ll point out my frustration with these arguments on USMB…it is thread after thread and always ONLY about race, just one race. Not women, who were major beneficiaries of AA…not other races…not the disabled.

 

[Foxfyre]

"Photos"?

A lot of college applications, maybe most, ask for a head shot of the applicant. I say do away with those as well as the race boxes on applications so that the application will be evaluated on merit alone.

 

[Coyote]

What is the party that supported slavery until slavery ended?

Irrelevant cop out.

 

[Foxfyre]

I actually support the ending of AA as a program, it has gone as far as it can in what it was needed for, which was essentially to open closed doors and force schools and employers to stop discriminating on the basis of race, gender or disability.

That does not mean the people were less qualified. In reality…were some less qualified? Sure, in terms of educational qualifications. But was their job performance worse? No.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/209930#:~:text=We%20find%20evidence%20of%20lower,and%20female%20Affirmative%20Action%20hires.

We use microlevel data on employers and employees from a sample of establishments in four major metropolitan areas in the United States to investigate whether Affirmative Action leads to the hiring of minority or female employees who are less qualified. Our measures of qualifications include the educational attainment of the workers hired and a variety of outcome measures related to worker performance on the job. We find evidence of lower educational qualifications among women and minorities hired under Affirmative Action. However, we do not find evidence of weaker job performance among most groups of minority and female Affirmative Action hires.

And, I’ll point out my frustration with these arguments on USMB…it is thread after thread and always ONLY about race, just one race. Not women, who were major beneficiaries of AA…not other races…not the disabled.

Again it is not whether or not a person is or isn't qualified. It is the perception that the affirmative action employee likely did not merit his/her job or position or whatever just as the boss's kid in the office is usually never seen as anything other than the nepotism employee and is often resented. That is why so many businesses have a policy against nepotism. And yes, affirmative action should become a thing of the past.