BREAKING NEWS: Appeals court rules part of President Obama’s health care law unconsti

[Foxfyre]

Or we could get the federal government out of it entirely and let the free market work. When we did that, most people paid for their doctor's visits, shots, broken fingers or whatever, and most people could afford the healthcare they had to have.

 

[Flopper]

I'm looking at a bill for $425 for a trip to the doctor. Two years ago there was $45,000 for a stay in the hospital. Those prices are twice what they were 10 years ago and half what they will be in 10 years.

You can repeal the healthcare law, shit can Medicare and Medicaid and those prices are going to keep going up, maybe not quite as fast but they're going to keep rising. Before the government, became a major player in healthcare, costs began rising. Healthcare costs started rising in the 1950's, 4% of GDP in 1955, 5% in 1960, 7.5% in 1970, 9.5% in 1980, 12% in 1990... The increased costs tracks fairly well the increase in the use of healthcare insurance and the rise in of new developments in healthcare. Neither of these is going away.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think Obamacare is only the first in a number of healthcare bills we will see over this decade.

Let’s hope so. Until a single payer system is installed.

We need to get insurance companies out of the business of health maintenance and back into the business of actual Health Insurance – used only for catastrophic illness or injury, traditional supplemental policies.

 

[sparky]

Or we could get the federal government out of it entirely and let the free market work.

we could, but what that would mean to many here is we get the insurance cabal out of Congress as well to do so

~S~

 

[Immanuel]

I think Obamacare is only the first in a number of healthcare bills we will see over this decade.

Let’s hope so. Until a single payer system is installed.

We need to get insurance companies out of the business of health maintenance and back into the business of actual Health Insurance – used only for catastrophic illness or injury, traditional supplemental policies.

The last thing we need is an unscrupulous bureaucracy that has no competition and no real oversight 100% control over our health care costs. That is the absolute last thing we need.

Immie

 

[dblack]

I'm looking at a bill for $425 for a trip to the doctor. Two years ago there was $45,000 for a stay in the hospital. Those prices are twice what they were 10 years ago and half what they will be in 10 years.

Absolutely. Runaway health care inflation is the number one problem with health care. ACA doesn't just ignore this problem, it yanks enthusiastically on the same levers that caused it in the first place.

Before the government, became a major player in healthcare, costs began rising. Healthcare costs started rising in the 1950's, 4% of GDP in 1955, 5% in 1960, 7.5% in 1970, 9.5% in 1980, 12% in 1990... The increased costs tracks fairly well the increase in the use of healthcare insurance and the rise in of new developments in healthcare.

Government influence in health care tracks right along with these numbers. The over-reliance on health insurance followed the tax incentives and labor polices that began in the 50's. Even if you don't want to admit that government created the problem, it's clear that the ACA doesn't resolve it. We need to reverse course, but the ACA just pushes us headlong into the same ravine.

 

[Claudette]

Yup into the ravinie then right over the cliff.

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and anyone who thinks Obamacare is gonna be cheaper and better is living in lalaland.

 

[Flopper]

Or we could get the federal government out of it entirely and let the free market work.

we could, but what that would mean to many here is we get the insurance cabal out of Congress as well to do so

~S~

There is no way government is going to get out of healthcare. There are 62 million on Medicaid and 50 million on Medicare. Then add another 5 million in the VA healthcare system. That's 1/3 of the population. With the US passing Obamacare, all developed countries have some form of universal care. Russia is the only country that has a program to move government out of the healthcare business and it has been a miserable failure. The population’s health has deteriorated on virtually every measure and costs have risen. Like it or not, government's presence in healthcare is here to stay. Instead of trying to turn the clock back, we should be trying to make the healthcare system work better.

 

[Foxfyre]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket. The very few who couldn't pay the modest fees received a bill and were expected to pay it out as they were able. Ditto for the emergency room or the first couple of hundred or so of a hospital stay.

So nobody abused the system because it cost them something to do so.

We all pay up front out of pociket for maintenance, repairs, and service on our appliances, houses, automobiles, heating and air conditioning systems, etc. etc. etc. To think that it is somehow immoral to for people to pay up front out of pocket for routine healthcare and maintenance is absurd. Aren't people of capable of putting as much importance on our health as we are our automobiles?

And under that system the USA had the very best healthcare in the world. We were the envy of everybody.

But the more the government got involved, the more the system was twisted and thrown out of kilter. No longer were honest market driven costs the norm but what anybody could cheat or obfusicate or manipulate because the government would pay the price. And that is a cancer that begins to affect other products and services that are all interconnected. And it didn't take long before routine healthcare was artificially inflated for everybody so that it is now difficult to go to the doctor if you don't have insurance.

It should not be that way.

Get government out of it entirely and let the free market work. And we will again have the very best and affordable healthcare in the world.

 

[Flopper]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket. The very few who couldn't pay the modest fees received a bill and were expected to pay it out as they were able. Ditto for the emergency room or the first couple of hundred or so of a hospital stay.

So nobody abused the system because it cost them something to do so.

We all pay up front out of pociket for maintenance, repairs, and service on our appliances, houses, automobiles, heating and air conditioning systems, etc. etc. etc. To think that it is somehow immoral to for people to pay up front out of pocket for routine healthcare and maintenance is absurd. Aren't people of capable of putting as much importance on our health as we are our automobiles?

And under that system the USA had the very best healthcare in the world. We were the envy of everybody.

But the more the government got involved, the more the system was twisted and thrown out of kilter. No longer were honest market driven costs the norm but what anybody could cheat or obfusicate or manipulate because the government would pay the price. And that is a cancer that begins to affect other products and services that are all interconnected. And it didn't take long before routine healthcare was artificially inflated for everybody so that it is now difficult to go to the doctor if you don't have insurance.

It should not be that way.

Get government out of it entirely and let the free market work. And we will again have the very best and affordable healthcare in the world.

Yes, people could afford to go to the doctor because a trip to the doctor did not include 15 blood test, immunization for Influenza, Pneumonia, Hepatitis, Mumps, Measles, and recommended specialize diagnostic tests and procedures.

If people had to pay for all their healthcare, you're absolutely correct, costs would come down however so would life expectancy. Insurance with high deductibles would seem to be the answer because it makes the patient more responsible. However, we know that high deductible policies encourage people to bypass physical exams, immunizations, maintenance drugs, and low cost procedures that prevent illnesses that are very expensive to treat. In addition, the poor are not likely to have enough money to pay a high deducible.

I don't think putting up to a 1/3 of the population in jeopardy of dying or suffering from curable diseases because they don't have the money to pay for treatment is going to be the answer.

 

[Foxfyre]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket. The very few who couldn't pay the modest fees received a bill and were expected to pay it out as they were able. Ditto for the emergency room or the first couple of hundred or so of a hospital stay.

So nobody abused the system because it cost them something to do so.

We all pay up front out of pociket for maintenance, repairs, and service on our appliances, houses, automobiles, heating and air conditioning systems, etc. etc. etc. To think that it is somehow immoral to for people to pay up front out of pocket for routine healthcare and maintenance is absurd. Aren't people of capable of putting as much importance on our health as we are our automobiles?

And under that system the USA had the very best healthcare in the world. We were the envy of everybody.

But the more the government got involved, the more the system was twisted and thrown out of kilter. No longer were honest market driven costs the norm but what anybody could cheat or obfusicate or manipulate because the government would pay the price. And that is a cancer that begins to affect other products and services that are all interconnected. And it didn't take long before routine healthcare was artificially inflated for everybody so that it is now difficult to go to the doctor if you don't have insurance.

It should not be that way.

Get government out of it entirely and let the free market work. And we will again have the very best and affordable healthcare in the world.

Yes, people could afford to go to the doctor because a trip to the doctor did not include 15 blood test, immunization for Influenza, Pneumonia, Hepatitis, Mumps, Measles, and recommended specialize diagnostic tests and procedures.

If people had to pay for all their healthcare, you're absolutely correct, costs would come down however so would life expectancy. Insurance with high deductibles would seem to be the answer because it makes the patient more responsible. However, we know that high deductible policies encourage people to bypass physical exams, immunizations, maintenance drugs, and low cost procedures that prevent illnesses that are very expensive to treat. In addition, the poor are not likely to have enough money to pay a high deducible.

I don't think putting up to a 1/3 of the population in jeopardy of dying or suffering from curable diseases because they don't have the money to pay for treatment is going to be the answer.

And I don't think your point of view will hold up under scrutiny. But what makes a leftwinger a leftwinger is looking to big government to be nanny, protector, rescuer, and insurance policy against all evils. What makes a conservative a conservative is believing in the right of the people to choose to do what is best for them and not taking that right away from them.

 

[saveliberty]

Tort reform would go a long way to end redundant or unnecessary tests. Having to pay for some of the costs can help prevent frequent visits too. The poor will still default to emergency services, because they provide a free ride.

 

[Flopper]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket. The very few who couldn't pay the modest fees received a bill and were expected to pay it out as they were able. Ditto for the emergency room or the first couple of hundred or so of a hospital stay.

So nobody abused the system because it cost them something to do so.

We all pay up front out of pociket for maintenance, repairs, and service on our appliances, houses, automobiles, heating and air conditioning systems, etc. etc. etc. To think that it is somehow immoral to for people to pay up front out of pocket for routine healthcare and maintenance is absurd. Aren't people of capable of putting as much importance on our health as we are our automobiles?

And under that system the USA had the very best healthcare in the world. We were the envy of everybody.

But the more the government got involved, the more the system was twisted and thrown out of kilter. No longer were honest market driven costs the norm but what anybody could cheat or obfusicate or manipulate because the government would pay the price. And that is a cancer that begins to affect other products and services that are all interconnected. And it didn't take long before routine healthcare was artificially inflated for everybody so that it is now difficult to go to the doctor if you don't have insurance.

It should not be that way.

Get government out of it entirely and let the free market work. And we will again have the very best and affordable healthcare in the world.

Yes, people could afford to go to the doctor because a trip to the doctor did not include 15 blood test, immunization for Influenza, Pneumonia, Hepatitis, Mumps, Measles, and recommended specialize diagnostic tests and procedures.

If people had to pay for all their healthcare, you're absolutely correct, costs would come down however so would life expectancy. Insurance with high deductibles would seem to be the answer because it makes the patient more responsible. However, we know that high deductible policies encourage people to bypass physical exams, immunizations, maintenance drugs, and low cost procedures that prevent illnesses that are very expensive to treat. In addition, the poor are not likely to have enough money to pay a high deducible.

I don't think putting up to a 1/3 of the population in jeopardy of dying or suffering from curable diseases because they don't have the money to pay for treatment is going to be the answer.

And I don't think your point of view will hold up under scrutiny. But what makes a leftwinger a leftwinger is looking to big government to be nanny, protector, rescuer, and insurance policy against all evils. What makes a conservative a conservative is believing in the right of the people to choose to do what is best for them and not taking that right away from them.

Eliminating the federal government from healthcare is about as likely as eliminating it's involvement in the monetary system. That train left a long time ago.

 

[dblack]

Eliminating the federal government from healthcare is about as likely as eliminating it's involvement in the monetary system. That train left a long time ago.

Yup... and the bridge ahead is washed out. I say we slow that sucker down enough that we can jump off!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Duelling appellate decisions guarantees a busy SCOTUS.

 

[Flopper]

Tort reform would go a long way to end redundant or unnecessary tests. Having to pay for some of the costs can help prevent frequent visits too. The poor will still default to emergency services, because they provide a free ride.

I agree tort reform would help, but there are bigger factors to consider. We must reward quality of care not quantity of care, promote prevention, encourage wellness and take better care of those with chronic illnesses (who account for at least 70 percent of health costs).

 

[Greenbeard]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket.

How much did an MRI or CT scan cost in those days?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket.

How much did an MRI or CT scan cost in those days?

I paid $75 for my last MRI. Guess how much the guy right behind me with a union health insurance pan got charged.

 

[Foxfyre]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket.

How much did an MRI or CT scan cost in those days?

There were no MRIs or CT scans when Medicare went into effect. But a chest x-ray would run the patient about $15. Something more complicated maybe a bit more. A hospital bed was about $35/night for a semi-private room. Patients who couldn't afford their bills were set up on contracts to pay it out - at $10/month if that is all they could afford. But nobody expected healthcare for free.

I was working for a hospital the day Medicare went into effect. And from Day 1 there was abuse of the system and from that day costs began rising at an unprecedented rate and have been escalating ever since. Medicaid made it worse. And all the other stuff they've included in those programs have made healthcare unaffordable for anybody.

We need to get the federal government out of it.

 

[Flopper]

Before government got involved in healthcare, just about everybody could afford that doctor's visit and paid for it out of pocket. A shot or a prescription was also something people could and did pay out of pocket.

How much did an MRI or CT scan cost in those days?

There were no MRIs or CT scans when Medicare went into effect. But a chest x-ray would run the patient about $15. Something more complicated maybe a bit more. A hospital bed was about $35/night for a semi-private room. Patients who couldn't afford their bills were set up on contracts to pay it out - at $10/month if that is all they could afford. But nobody expected healthcare for free.

I was working for a hospital the day Medicare went into effect. And from Day 1 there was abuse of the system and from that day costs began rising at an unprecedented rate and have been escalating ever since. Medicaid made it worse. And all the other stuff they've included in those programs have made healthcare unaffordable for anybody.

We need to get the federal government out of it.

Comparing an X-ray to an MRI or CT Scan is like comparing a magnifying glass to a microscope. I agree you didn't pay much for medical care but you didn't get much compared to today. Cancer survival rates today are twice what they were then. Diseases we had no treatment for then are being treated and cured.

Medical advances have come at a high cost, hundreds of billions in research, machines such as an MRI costing a million dollars or more, and hundreds of new highly trained medical professionals. One of the things that is really driving up cost is that we are developing treatments for much less common diseases. This means there're fewer people to pay the costs. These costs will continue to accelerate as we tackle more rare diseases.

Of course government adds cost to healthcare but using government as a scapegoat for all problems is counterproductive. Without government involvement in healthcare most of the medical marvels of the last half century would not be available to large segment of the population.