BREAKING!! Michael Mann.....climate criminal?

[CrusaderFrank]

Why don't you explain, using the greenhouse hypothesis as described by climate science, why the base of the troposphere on Uranus is 33K warmer than the base of the troposphere on earth even though Uranus is 30X further away from the sun than earth and has an atmosphere composed almost entirely of hydrogen and helium.

So what's the source of these kook conspiracy theories of yours?

Did your worst enemy hack your account to make you look like an idiot?

 

[SSDD]

Why don't you explain, using the greenhouse hypothesis as described by climate science, why the base of the troposphere on Uranus is 33K warmer than the base of the troposphere on earth even though Uranus is 30X further away from the sun than earth and has an atmosphere composed almost entirely of hydrogen and helium.

So what's the source of these kook conspiracy theories of yours?

So what conspiracy do you think is happening here? Are you disputing the distance Uranus is from the sun?...the composition of its atmosphere?.....or the temperature?

Enlighten me as to which of these well known facts you are disputing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why don't you explain, using the greenhouse hypothesis as described by climate science, why the base of the troposphere on Uranus is 33K warmer than the base of the troposphere on earth even though Uranus is 30X further away from the sun than earth and has an atmosphere composed almost entirely of hydrogen and helium.

So what's the source of these kook conspiracy theories of yours?

So what conspiracy do you think is happening here? Are you disputing the distance Uranus is from the sun?...the composition of its atmosphere?.....or the temperature?

Enlighten me as to which of these well known facts you are disputing.

er, all of them! LOL Amazing what cult membership does to a person

 

[mamooth]

Are you disputing the distance Uranus is from the sun?...the composition of its atmosphere?.....or the temperature?

I don't know exactly which "I, a mere layman, have discovered the basic flaws of the greenhouse theory which all of planet earth has previously missed!" guy you're using, which is why I asked, but I'd suggest this William Connolly piece that refutes such nonsense.

The idealised greenhouse effect model and its enemies ? Stoat

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Are you disputing the distance Uranus is from the sun?...the composition of its atmosphere?.....or the temperature?

I don't know exactly which "I, a mere layman, have discovered the basic flaws of the greenhouse theory which all of planet earth has previously missed!" guy you're using, which is why I asked, but I'd suggest this William Connolly piece that refutes such nonsense.

The idealised greenhouse effect model and its enemies ? Stoat

That's the problem with running so many sock accounts, you forget what you said. Read through the thread and look at your last "mamooth" post Joe

Sent from my Chinese Supercomputer made from XBox parts Bush sent to China

 

[mamooth]

Call me a sock again, Frank, ever, and I report you. You won't get any other warnings. Board rules are clear on this; all accusations of socking go to mods only.

 

[Dot Com]

yeah come on 57Frank. Stop being a stereotypical denier.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

See I only have this one account so I never had to look up the rules on running a sock account

Sent from my Chinese Supercomputer made from XBox parts Bush sent to China

 

[Abraham3]

Solar System Exploration: News & Events: News Archive: Greenhouse Effects ... Also on Other Planets

For a really strong greenhouse effect, we should look at Venus. Venus is similar to Earth in terms of size and mass, but its surface temperature is about 460 degrees Celsius. This is hot enough to melt lead! The Venusian atmosphere is mainly made up of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. On Earth, carbon dioxide makes up only a tiny fraction of the atmosphere. However, man-made emissions have caused carbon dioxide concentrations here to increase by about 30% since pre-industrial times. Why is there so much carbon dioxide in the Venusian atmosphere? What made Venus evolve so differently from Earth? "Good questions. That is precisely one of the things we want to find out" says Hakan Svedhem, Project Scientist for ESA's mission Venus Express, due for launch in 2005.

Is Venus a mirror that reflects how the Earth will be if global warming continues at its current speed? "Venus will help us understand what happens when the greenhouse effect is really extreme. However, it's not a good example of what will happen to Earth due to human activities. Life on Earth would disappear due to the extreme temperatures much before reaching even half of the concentrations of carbon dioxide on Venus!" says Svedhem.

As a complete contrast to Venus, there is Mars. The Red Planet displays hardly any greenhouse effect. Mars does have some atmospheric carbon dioxide, but almost no atmosphere! The existing atmosphere is so thin that it cannot retain energy from the Sun. There are therefore extreme temperature contrasts between day and night and sun or shade. However, most scientists agree that Mars was much warmer in the past and even had oceans, which means that the atmosphere was also very different. About 3600 million years ago, something happened and the planet evolved towards its current state. What could have triggered such a huge change in climate? "We will answer this question with Mars Express" explains Agustin Chicarro, Project Scientist of ESA's mission to Mars, due for launch in May 2003.

Finally, if we look at Titan, Saturn's largest moon, we see a moderate greenhouse effect mostly due to the large concentrations of methane, another greenhouse gas, in its atmosphere. Astronomers have compared Titan with the early Earth. It would be a suitable place for life if it were not so cold: its surface is extremely cold at about -180 degrees Celsius. Understanding which factors influence Titan's climate would be enormously helpful to us, on Earth. "What we learn on Titan will certainly be useful to understand the other planets", confirms Jean-Pierre Lebreton, Project Scientist of Huygens, ESA's probe to Titan.

 

[Abraham3]

Nov 18: Uranus/Neptune

Uranus's atmosphere:

The atmosphere of Uranus is composed of 83% hydrogen, 15% helium, 2% methane and small amounts of acetylene and other hydrocarbons. Methane in the upper atmosphere absorbs red light, giving Uranus its blue-green color. In fact, as we move outward in the Solar System, the inner Jovian worlds (Jupiter and Saturn) are dominated by ammonia for their coloration. But as the temperature drops below 70 K ammonia gas freezes into ice crystals and drops out of the atmosphere. Methane becomes more dominate and, being a blue gas, the outer Jovian worlds (Uranus and Neptune) go from blue-green to deep blue.

The atmosphere is arranged into clouds running at constant latitudes, similar to the orientation of the more vivid latitudinal bands seen on Jupiter and Saturn. Winds at mid-latitudes on Uranus blow in the direction of the planet's rotation. These winds blow at velocities of 90 to 360 miles per hour.

Uranus lacks an internal energy source such as Jupiter and Saturn, and thus its atmosphere energy system is much less active, resulting in fewer features (storms, eddies, etc.). Cloud patterns are only seen at the warmer, lower levels deep below the atmospheric haze. In addition, the tilted axis of Uranus produces uneven warming in the two hemisphere which produce long-term North-South flows across the latitude zones. The combination of these effects means that the atmospheric features are washed out much like Saturn.

Neptune's atmosphere:

Neptune is a dynamic planet with several large, dark spots reminiscent of Jupiter's hurricane-like storms. The largest spot, known as the Great Dark Spot, is about the size of the earth and is similar to the Great Red Spot on Jupiter. Other dark spots display cyclone-like structure in their centers.

Just like the storms on Jupiter, the dark spots on Neptune ``tumble'' along the zones absorbing smaller storms to power themselves. The most surprising thing about these storms is that, unlike Jupiter, they are short-lived. Recent HST images do not show the Great Dark Spot.

Long bright clouds, similar to cirrus clouds on Earth, were seen high in Neptune's atmosphere. At low northern latitudes, Voyager captured images of cloud streaks casting their shadows on cloud decks below.

The strongest winds on any planet were measured on Neptune. Most of the winds there blow westward, opposite to the rotation of the planet. Near the Great Dark Spot, winds blow up to 1,200 miles an hour.

Neptune emits 2.7 times more energy than it receives from the Sun. This access energy powers the atmosphere to produce the storms that are not seen on its twin planet Uranus. The source of internal energy should not be leftover energy from formation (i.e. Jupiter) since Neptune is too small. Nor is it due to an unusual chemical change, such as the helium rain for Saturn. Rather, it is due to the fact that methane is highly abundant in Neptune's atmosphere, and methane is an excellent insulator of heat (i.e. the greenhouse effect). Neptune has a sub-zero type greenhouse effect that is trapping formation heat that should have been radiated billions of years ago like Uranus.

 

[Abraham3]

The idealised greenhouse effect model and its enemies ? Stoat

Another way of thinking about it…

…which is in fact exactly the same way of thinking about it, even further simplified.

If you don’t like the numbers of the maths, don’t despair, there is hope for you. Its possible to get a qualitative understanding with no numbers at all.

* Agree that the Earth is heated by the sun,
* and that it emits thermal radiation to balance the heat from the sun.
* In the absence of atmosphere, that’s it.
* With an atmosphere (that absorbs some or all LW, but no SW) the LW from the Earth warms up the atmosphere,
* which emits thermal radiation upwards and downwards.
* Therefore, the Earth is warmer in the presence of an atmosphere, because it is heated by two sources: the sun and the atmosphere.

Easy, no?

 

[Old Rocks]

No, not easy. If the great obese junkie says otherwise, he is correct and all them thar pointyheaded scientists don't know nothin'.

 

[skookerasbil]

Call me a sock again, Frank, ever, and I report you. You won't get any other warnings. Board rules are clear on this; all accusations of socking go to mods only.

Holy Mother of God.......far left people have the backbones of Hershey bars. Buckle up your chinstrap you limpwrister. You wouldn't last 48 hours working with me. I knew there was something about that cat.


What a disgrace. Indeed.....the feminists have deballed the American male.

 

[Abraham3]

So you think it 'manly' to lie and break the rules? Got it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Solar System Exploration: News & Events: News Archive: Greenhouse Effects ... Also on Other Planets

For a really strong greenhouse effect, we should look at Venus. Venus is similar to Earth in terms of size and mass, but its surface temperature is about 460 degrees Celsius. This is hot enough to melt lead! The Venusian atmosphere is mainly made up of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. On Earth, carbon dioxide makes up only a tiny fraction of the atmosphere. However, man-made emissions have caused carbon dioxide concentrations here to increase by about 30% since pre-industrial times. Why is there so much carbon dioxide in the Venusian atmosphere? What made Venus evolve so differently from Earth? "Good questions. That is precisely one of the things we want to find out" says Hakan Svedhem, Project Scientist for ESA's mission Venus Express, due for launch in 2005.

Is Venus a mirror that reflects how the Earth will be if global warming continues at its current speed? "Venus will help us understand what happens when the greenhouse effect is really extreme. However, it's not a good example of what will happen to Earth due to human activities. Life on Earth would disappear due to the extreme temperatures much before reaching even half of the concentrations of carbon dioxide on Venus!" says Svedhem.

As a complete contrast to Venus, there is Mars. The Red Planet displays hardly any greenhouse effect. Mars does have some atmospheric carbon dioxide, but almost no atmosphere! The existing atmosphere is so thin that it cannot retain energy from the Sun. There are therefore extreme temperature contrasts between day and night and sun or shade. However, most scientists agree that Mars was much warmer in the past and even had oceans, which means that the atmosphere was also very different. About 3600 million years ago, something happened and the planet evolved towards its current state. What could have triggered such a huge change in climate? "We will answer this question with Mars Express" explains Agustin Chicarro, Project Scientist of ESA's mission to Mars, due for launch in May 2003.

Finally, if we look at Titan, Saturn's largest moon, we see a moderate greenhouse effect mostly due to the large concentrations of methane, another greenhouse gas, in its atmosphere. Astronomers have compared Titan with the early Earth. It would be a suitable place for life if it were not so cold: its surface is extremely cold at about -180 degrees Celsius. Understanding which factors influence Titan's climate would be enormously helpful to us, on Earth. "What we learn on Titan will certainly be useful to understand the other planets", confirms Jean-Pierre Lebreton, Project Scientist of Huygens, ESA's probe to Titan.

Venus is hot because of Global Warming? Seriously?

It's the massive atmosphere that causes the heat, not the "Greenhouse Effect"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, not easy. If the great obese junkie says otherwise, he is correct and all them thar pointyheaded scientists don't know nothin'.

Max Planck Institute is an obese junkie?

Try reading something other than Al Gore

Max Planck Institute For Meteorology: “Prognoses Confirm Model Forecasts” Warming Postponed “Hundreds Of Years”
By P Gosselin on 26. Mai 2013
Now that global temperatures have not risen in 15 years, a number of scientists find themselves having great difficulty coming to terms with that new reality.

- See more at: Max Planck Institute For Meteorology: ?Prognoses Confirm Model Forecasts? Warming Postponed ?Hundreds Of Years?

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Solar System Exploration: News & Events: News Archive: Greenhouse Effects ... Also on Other Planets

For a really strong greenhouse effect, we should look at Venus. Venus is similar to Earth in terms of size and mass, but its surface temperature is about 460 degrees Celsius. This is hot enough to melt lead! The Venusian atmosphere is mainly made up of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. On Earth, carbon dioxide makes up only a tiny fraction of the atmosphere. However, man-made emissions have caused carbon dioxide concentrations here to increase by about 30% since pre-industrial times. Why is there so much carbon dioxide in the Venusian atmosphere? What made Venus evolve so differently from Earth? "Good questions. That is precisely one of the things we want to find out" says Hakan Svedhem, Project Scientist for ESA's mission Venus Express, due for launch in 2005.

Is Venus a mirror that reflects how the Earth will be if global warming continues at its current speed? "Venus will help us understand what happens when the greenhouse effect is really extreme. However, it's not a good example of what will happen to Earth due to human activities. Life on Earth would disappear due to the extreme temperatures much before reaching even half of the concentrations of carbon dioxide on Venus!" says Svedhem.

As a complete contrast to Venus, there is Mars. The Red Planet displays hardly any greenhouse effect. Mars does have some atmospheric carbon dioxide, but almost no atmosphere! The existing atmosphere is so thin that it cannot retain energy from the Sun. There are therefore extreme temperature contrasts between day and night and sun or shade. However, most scientists agree that Mars was much warmer in the past and even had oceans, which means that the atmosphere was also very different. About 3600 million years ago, something happened and the planet evolved towards its current state. What could have triggered such a huge change in climate? "We will answer this question with Mars Express" explains Agustin Chicarro, Project Scientist of ESA's mission to Mars, due for launch in May 2003.

Finally, if we look at Titan, Saturn's largest moon, we see a moderate greenhouse effect mostly due to the large concentrations of methane, another greenhouse gas, in its atmosphere. Astronomers have compared Titan with the early Earth. It would be a suitable place for life if it were not so cold: its surface is extremely cold at about -180 degrees Celsius. Understanding which factors influence Titan's climate would be enormously helpful to us, on Earth. "What we learn on Titan will certainly be useful to understand the other planets", confirms Jean-Pierre Lebreton, Project Scientist of Huygens, ESA's probe to Titan.

Venus is hot because of Global Warming? Seriously?

It's the massive atmosphere that causes the heat, not the "Greenhouse Effect"

Maybe being millions of miles closer to that big yellow warm thing in the sky accounts for that too.

 

[Kosh]

Then again if the AGW religious scripture of CO2 was really true, Mars would be a ball of fire as it's atmosphere is 96% CO2.

 

[IanC]

The idealised greenhouse effect model and its enemies ? Stoat

Another way of thinking about it…

…which is in fact exactly the same way of thinking about it, even further simplified.

If you don’t like the numbers of the maths, don’t despair, there is hope for you. Its possible to get a qualitative understanding with no numbers at all.

* Agree that the Earth is heated by the sun,
* and that it emits thermal radiation to balance the heat from the sun.
* In the absence of atmosphere, that’s it.
* With an atmosphere (that absorbs some or all LW, but no SW) the LW from the Earth warms up the atmosphere,
* which emits thermal radiation upwards and downwards.
* Therefore, the Earth is warmer in the presence of an atmosphere, because it is heated by two sources: the sun and the atmosphere.

Easy, no?

I, for one, have no big problem with Connelly's ultra simplification of the greenhouse effect.

especially if you take LW escape through the atmospheric window into account. it is analogous to albedo for incoming sunlight. it is gone immediately (well at least at the speed of light) and no longer interacts. according to Trenberth it is 40w near surface and another 30w above the clouds. this ~ 15% reduction brings the greenhouse estimate of surface temp to within a couple of degrees of our standard estimate of the earth's surface temperature.

 

[IanC]

and while you are at it, explain why the surface temperature of Venus does not drop during its 2,000 hour night...also using the greenhouse hypothesis as described by climate science.

why are none of our inhouse skeptics taking SSDD to task for an incredibly stupid statement?

perhaps he is reponding to someone else who made the claim but as it stands the statement belongs to him. it is on par with wirebender's claim that a heated plate in a cool vacuum would also warm an unheated plate to the same temperature, back when we were discussing Spencer's thought experiment to show that cooler objects can indeed make warm objects warmer when there is an energy source and a differential pathway to the eventual energy sink.