BREAKING: Mass school shooting multiple victims

[Derideo_Te]

The government has no right to infringe upon our rights. Period.

Define "infringe".

Does requiring you to have a permit for a concealed weapon infringe upon your rights?

Yes or no?

If no, then why would requiring you to have a permit for a firearm in your house infringe upon your rights?

 

[Asclepias]

Here is the schools official bylaws:

“Possession, use, or threatened use of firearms (including but not limited to BB guns, air guns, water pistols, and paint guns) ammunition, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or any other objects as weapons on college property, except as expressly authorized by law or college regulations, is prohibited.

Possession of knives with a blade longer than 4” is prohibited.

Brandishing weapons is prohibited.

Misuse of personal defensive weapons – e.g., pepper spray, etc. is prohibited. The owner is responsible and accountable for any misuse of these devices.”

You keep missing out on the fact that CCW's were there and there is nothing legally the school can do about it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

 

[Asclepias]

The government has no right to infringe upon our rights. Period.

Define "infringe".

Does requiring you to have a permit for a concealed weapon infringe upon your rights?

Yes or no?

If no, then why would requiring you to have a permit for a firearm in your house infringe upon your rights?

This will be interesting.

 

[nicolondon]

What I seem to read a lot about is excuses not to do something rather than finding some common ground, a lot of responsible gun owners when polled think something should be done. You simply can't arm every nursery, school, university, security people can't man every corridor and you can't have everyone walking around with a gun. Do Americans want to live in that type of society?

Here's the thing.
Common ground - that is, compromise- requires that both sides give something to get what they want.
The side that wants more gun control has nothing to offer to gun owners in exchange for what they to the gun owners to give up.
Thus, compromise -- that is, common ground - is impossible,.

Surely gun owners are human like the rest of us! If they could do something to help shouldn't they, I'm sure gun owners see these massacres and feel for the families. In terms of gun owners giving up something. Well no ones taking their gun away so what are they giving up. I hear a lot about freedom, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to go to a cinema, school etc without fear of being murdered. Isn't that the more important right, all I see is a lot of hysteria from the NRA screaming that Obama is after your guns, or they'll take your 2nd Am rights away. How about the rights of innocent people to not be murdered. I watched Obamas news conference and if people remove their partisan hats then its impossible to disagree with his sentiments. A governments first priority is to protect its citizens from harm, those in Congress who sit on their arses doing nothing should be ashamed and have blood on their hands.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It worked in Australia.

Oh, I see that sploogy....

{
A civilian NSW Police employee has been "callously murdered" and his killer shot dead as officers returned fire outside police headquarters at Parramatta in Sydney's west.

Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said the lone gunman, who is yet to be identified, shot the police employee at close range as he was leaving the building around 4:30pm on Friday.

The offender then fired several more shots at officers as they emerged from the building to respond to the incident.

The gunman was killed when the officers, who are special constables, returned fire.}

NSW Police employee one of two dead in Parramatta HQ shooting

 

[nicolondon]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

 

[Asclepias]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

I have a buddy that used to live in the UK but now resides in Spain and he is bewildered. We talked about this at length this morning.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Could somebody please explain to me the normal procedure to buy a gun? Also does each State have a gun register so that all owners are on a central database?

Very few of the states require registration.
There are two ways to buy a gun:
-Go to a dealer, pick it out, undergo a background check, pay for the gun, take the gun home.
-Go to a private individual, pay for the gun, take it home.

If gun owners were licensed the private sale would allow for the seller to verity the buyer was licensed; and, a license could be immediately suspended if the licensee were to be arrested for crimes of violence, DUI for drugs or alcohol, detained civilly as a danger to him or her self or others.

Dear God you really are a dummy.
Legal gun owners commit very few violent crimes involving guns. Insane people and negro thugs commit 99.999% of violent crimes involving a gun.
You don't like guns in the hands of even the cops. You're a ******* LIB pajama-boy *****.
I saw a lot of you ******* LIBs in VN. We called you all "pukers and shiters". You could set your watch when a dozen of you cowards would show up at the MI claiming you had a 'stomach ache' a few minutes after you heard an explosion a mile away. That's why I have no respect for you and yours.
And to think how many good men died to make sure you could attempt to destroy our freedoms. Now I'm going to puke.

You are an angry old man, full of hate. You and other deranged people should never own a gun.

 

[nicolondon]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

I have a buddy that used to live in the UK but now resides in Spain and he is bewildered. We talked about this at length this morning.

Yes bewildered is where I'm at. This massacre got a lot of attention on our news. Its just so awful for those poor families. What really hit home though was the Sandy Hook massacre of those children. How can people turn a blind eye, surely as a nation America has to try everything possible that still allows people their 2nd Am right but marries that with sensible regulations. You of course can never totally eradicate these things from happening but you have to try.

 

[Asclepias]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

I have a buddy that used to live in the UK but now resides in Spain and he is bewildered. We talked about this at length this morning.

Yes bewildered is where I'm at. This massacre got a lot of attention on our news. Its just so awful for those poor families. What really hit home though was the Sandy Hook massacre of those children. How can people turn a blind eye, surely as a nation America has to try everything possible that still allows people their 2nd Am right but marries that with sensible regulations. You of course can never totally eradicate these things from happening but you have to try.

Well you have several levels of retardation going on here. Some are just plain selfish. Others are convinced the NWO is imminent. The nuttiest of the bunch are convinced that Sandy Hook was staged and didnt really happen. We have a few people on this forum that probably think it didnt really happen.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What I seem to read a lot about is excuses not to do something rather than finding some common ground, a lot of responsible gun owners when polled think something should be done. You simply can't arm every nursery, school, university, security people can't man every corridor and you can't have everyone walking around with a gun. Do Americans want to live in that type of society?

Here's the thing.
Common ground - that is, compromise- requires that both sides give something to get what they want.
The side that wants more gun control has nothing to offer to gun owners in exchange for what they to the gun owners to give up.
Thus, compromise -- that is, common ground - is impossible,.

Surely gun owners are human like the rest of us! If they could do something to help shouldn't they, I'm sure gun owners see these massacres and feel for the families.

There's no sound reason for gun owners to acquiesce to those that want more gun control because the additional gun control they want - not to mention the gun controls in place - will do nothing to prevent gun-related violence.

In terms of gun owners giving up something. Well no ones taking their gun away so what are they giving up

Every gun control law that affects only the law abiding -- background checks, registration, licenses, etc - creates a imitation on the rights of the law abiding. In our country, rights cannot be limited unless the state can show a compelling need to do so and a effective, limited means to meet that need. None of the additional restrictions meet that test, and so there's no sound reason gun owners should allow them.

I hear a lot about freedom, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to go to a cinema, school etc without fear of being murdered.

There is no freedom from fear.
Freedom itself, after all is a scary thing.

all I see is a lot of hysteria from the NRA screaming that Obama is after your guns,

President Obama openly states that he wants to ban an assortment of rifles, handguns and shotguns. There is no false concern here.

How about the rights of innocent people to not be murdered.

You have the right to life.
No law will prevent someone who wants to illegally deprive you of that right from doing so.

 

[ChrisL]

Why would you want to give the "man" that kind of power over you? What about all those "racists" who want to hold you down. You know, the man, ******.

What power am I giving them? What about the racists? I still have my gun to kill them should they attack me in my home.

You want the government to be able to "control" people's rights. The only people that such controls effect are the people that care about the law. Do you really think people who would commit mass murder care or would not find some other way to do as much damage as possible?

Your strawman has been noted and I will address it. The government already controls your rights. How did you not know that? Who said people determined to commit mass murder would not find another way?

You blaming the tool and trying to gain control over a tool. It's never going to work. It's just delusional and avoidance of what the ACTUAL problem might be with society.

Q. What are the ACTUAL problems.

A. Many:

• Poverty
• Education
• Jobs
• Mental Health
• Partisanship
• Ignorance
• Selfishness
• Racism
• Bigotry
• Wedge Issues

and the greatest problem is The Congress,

Lol. We can agree on THAT at least.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Could somebody please explain to me the normal procedure to buy a gun? Also does each State have a gun register so that all owners are on a central database?

Very few of the states require registration.
There are two ways to buy a gun:
-Go to a dealer, pick it out, undergo a background check, pay for the gun, take the gun home.
-Go to a private individual, pay for the gun, take it home.

If gun owners were licensed the private sale would allow for the seller to verity the buyer was licensed; and, a license could be immediately suspended if the licensee were to be arrested for crimes of violence, DUI for drugs or alcohol, detained civilly as a danger to him or her self or others.

Dear God you really are a dummy.
Legal gun owners commit very few violent crimes involving guns. Insane people and negro thugs commit 99.999% of violent crimes involving a gun.
You don't like guns in the hands of even the cops. You're a ******* LIB pajama-boy *****.
I saw a lot of you ******* LIBs in VN. We called you all "pukers and shiters". You could set your watch when a dozen of you cowards would show up at the MI claiming you had a 'stomach ache' a few minutes after you heard an explosion a mile away. That's why I have no respect for you and yours.
And to think how many good men died to make sure you could attempt to destroy our freedoms. Now I'm going to puke.

You are an angry old man, full of hate. You and other deranged people should never own a gun.

More mindless nonsense from an anti-gun loon who smiles at the deaths of innocents.

 

[Asclepias]

What I seem to read a lot about is excuses not to do something rather than finding some common ground, a lot of responsible gun owners when polled think something should be done. You simply can't arm every nursery, school, university, security people can't man every corridor and you can't have everyone walking around with a gun. Do Americans want to live in that type of society?

Here's the thing.
Common ground - that is, compromise- requires that both sides give something to get what they want.
The side that wants more gun control has nothing to offer to gun owners in exchange for what they to the gun owners to give up.
Thus, compromise -- that is, common ground - is impossible,.

Surely gun owners are human like the rest of us! If they could do something to help shouldn't they, I'm sure gun owners see these massacres and feel for the families.

There's no sound reason for gun owners to acquiesce to those that want more gun control because the additional gun control they want - not to mention the gun controls in place - will do nothing to prevent gun-related violence.

In terms of gun owners giving up something. Well no ones taking their gun away so what are they giving up

Every gun control law that affects only the law abiding -- background checks, registration, licenses, etc - creates a imitation on the rights of the law abiding. In our country, rights cannot be limited unless the state can show a compelling need to do so and a effective, limited means to meet that need. None of the additional restrictions meet that test, and so there's no sound reason gun owners should allow them.

I hear a lot about freedom, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to go to a cinema, school etc without fear of being murdered.

There is no freedom from fear.
Freedom itself, after all is a scary thing.

all I see is a lot of hysteria from the NRA screaming that Obama is after your guns,

President Obama openly states that he wants to ban an assortment of rifles, handguns and shotguns. There is no false concern here.

How about the rights of innocent people to not be murdered.

You have he right to life.
No law will prevent someone who wants to illegally deprive you of that right from doing so.

As you can see nicolondon the gun huggers are locked into this concept that all gun crime is stopped by gun control at once or nothing at all. There is no sign of rational thinking that allows for a slow reduction.

 

[ChrisL]

The government has no right to infringe upon our rights. Period.

Define "infringe".

Does requiring you to have a permit for a concealed weapon infringe upon your rights?

Yes or no?

If no, then why would requiring you to have a permit for a firearm in your house infringe upon your rights?

You already have to have a permit.

Overview Of MA Firearms Law<meta name="keywords" content="fid, ltc, permit, license, gun, firearm, massachusetts, ma, mass"> <meta name="description" content="GOAL's MA firearms law overview page, the most asked about laws that gun owners need to know.">

 

[ChrisL]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

We are not Australia, and I don't care about Australia, TBH. We have rights that we have since WAY before you were born. You aren't fixing the problem by focusing on the tool. That is just common sense. If someone wants to kill people, they will just use another tool to accomplish that goal.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

the Wing Nut Gun Nut sheriff of the county where the massacre occurred, Douglas County, wrote a defiant letter to Vice President Biden after the Sandy Hook school massacre stating he would obey no gun control laws he deemed unconstitutional.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

No there is nothing that can be done...we just have to accept that in our society we have regular and routine gun slaughters and no there is nothing that can be done just accept the deaths move on ...and ain't Freedom wonderful eh...hahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaha

 

[nicolondon]

What I seem to read a lot about is excuses not to do something rather than finding some common ground, a lot of responsible gun owners when polled think something should be done. You simply can't arm every nursery, school, university, security people can't man every corridor and you can't have everyone walking around with a gun. Do Americans want to live in that type of society?

Here's the thing.
Common ground - that is, compromise- requires that both sides give something to get what they want.
The side that wants more gun control has nothing to offer to gun owners in exchange for what they to the gun owners to give up.
Thus, compromise -- that is, common ground - is impossible,.

Surely gun owners are human like the rest of us! If they could do something to help shouldn't they, I'm sure gun owners see these massacres and feel for the families.

There's no sound reason for gun owners to acquiesce to those that want more gun control because the additional gun control they want - not to mention the gun controls in place - will do nothing to prevent gun-related violence.

In terms of gun owners giving up something. Well no ones taking their gun away so what are they giving up

Every gun control law that affects only the law abiding -- background checks, registration, licenses, etc - creates a imitation on the rights of the law abiding. In our country, rights cannot be limited unless the state can show a compelling need to do so and a effective, limited means to meet that need. None of the additional restrictions meet that test, and so there's no sound reason gun owners should allow them.

I hear a lot about freedom, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to go to a cinema, school etc without fear of being murdered.

There is no freedom from fear.
Freedom itself, after all is a scary thing.

all I see is a lot of hysteria from the NRA screaming that Obama is after your guns,

President Obama openly states that he wants to ban an assortment of rifles, handguns and shotguns. There is no false concern here.

How about the rights of innocent people to not be murdered.

You have the right to life.
No law will prevent someone who wants to illegally deprive you of that right from doing so.

Thanks for answering my points. I appreciate this type of debate where those pro-guns argue in a reasoned manner. As a Brit I do understand that its a tricky business entering into this debate especially as we aren't brought up with guns and gun ownership in the USA is very matter of fact and not seen as out of the ordinary. I think the issue is one of perception as to the purpose of guns and whether its about having a minimum amount of protection versus a weapon that can unload a large amount of bullets in a short time.

Personally IMO the 2nd Am right was not designed to afford Americans any gun they wanted or the total freedom in where to buy that weapon or where to carry it. Your State legislatures have expanded gun rights and widened the goal posts above and beyond that original right. At the time of the writing of that constitution you did not have those powerful weapons. The right to bear arms is not carte blanche to bear any gun however powerful, it does not give the bearer of those arms complete freedom. It gives them the boundaries of that freedom as set out by each State. Only part of the problem is the 2nd Am, the main issue is borne out from a political discourse and lobby that normalize the expectations of citizens re their gun rights. Logically speaking each State could bring about laws that prohibit anything but a simple handgun able to fire 6 bullets, exceptions could be made for farmers, hunters. That would still not go against the 2nd Am.

The problem is guns are big business in the USA, they make big profits. The normalization of gun ownership from an early age is a problem because culturally this is difficult to break. Its not possible to re-write American history, whats done is done however its impossible to keep ignoring the terrible rates of homicide by gun.

Collectively in the last ten years over 300,000 Americans have died through either murder, suicide or accident. Homicide is approx. over 100,000.

Would Americans be so accepting if those 100,000 had been killed by terrorists?