Breaking : BBC : Navy Yard Incident : SWAT Team ***ORDERED***To stand down

[Brain357]

Simple question...

Had you been in the Navy Yard that day, would you have preferred to be helpless or armed?

I think most people would prefer the shooter wasn't armed.

But he was.

So again, had you been in the Navy Yard that day, would you have preferred to be helpless or armed?

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

 

[whitehall]

Just think, if he didn't have access to a gun, the swat team wouldn't have even needed to be there.

The failure of the GOP to act after Newtown keeps adding to the carnage this country is suffering.

He was crazy. He wouldn't have had a gun if the democrats didn't think that the confidentiality of mental patients trumped society's safety. As a matter of fact he would not have had access to the base if the feds weren't more interested in feeling up LOL's at airports instead of doing their freaking jobs. How long is it going to take before the incompetent asses, who let the Boston Marathon bombing happen and the Navy Yard shooting happen, are fired?

 

[Missourian]

I think most people would prefer the shooter wasn't armed.

But he was.

So again, had you been in the Navy Yard that day, would you have preferred to be helpless or armed?

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

 

[Brain357]

But he was.

So again, had you been in the Navy Yard that day, would you have preferred to be helpless or armed?

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

 

[Pauli007001]

But he was.

So again, had you been in the Navy Yard that day, would you have preferred to be helpless or armed?

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Her family were less dead because they were gun owners.

Liberals believe gun owners and their families are less than human.

 

[Pauli007001]

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

Is sooner rely on my own abilities and skills armed or unarmed.
Though most likely not carrying a firearm.
I shoot targets or game.
Why that drives the fanatics nuts is beyond me!!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just think, if he didn't have access to a gun, the swat team wouldn't have even needed to be there.

The failure of the GOP to act after Newtown keeps adding to the carnage this country is suffering.

He bought a shotgun and had no record to flag a background check, exactly how would any of the new laws have effected his killing spree, be specific.

 

[Pauli007001]

Just think, if he didn't have access to a gun, the swat team wouldn't have even needed to be there.

The failure of the GOP to act after Newtown keeps adding to the carnage this country is suffering.

He bought a shotgun and had no record to flag a background check, exactly how would any of the new laws have effected his killing spree, be specific.

It was an AR15 shotgun with a high capacity clip, possibly even a flash surpressor, it definatly had a terrifying pistol grip( known to make the capacity of the 100 round AR15 shotgun clip even bigger in capacity !!!
Luckily it didn't have a bipod or a Folding stock otherwise it would have fired land mines and cluster bombs that would blow off limbs and kill children for tge next 50 years!!!!!!
It's the NRA!!!
We need to murder all their children now , by the millions!!
If we don't murder the NRA children, human children might die!!!!

 

[Missourian]

Are you suggesting you'd be more safe? Somebody might mistake you for the bad guy:
Christopher Geraghty, Retired Lieutenant Who Accidentally Killed ATF Agent John Capano, Is 'Devastated': Lawyer

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

 

[Contumacious]

just think, if he didn't have access to a gun, the swat team wouldn't have even needed to be there.

The failure of the gop to act after newtown keeps adding to the carnage this country is suffering.

what action could the democrats or the gop do to prevent the shipyard shooter?

abolish gun free zones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

[National Socialist]

Not incompetence. Obama needed a decent death toll to push for more gun confiscation. Its not working as he hoped though.

 

[Brain357]

I am suggesting that you are unwilling to answer a simple question.

If you had been in the Navy Yard that day, would you want to be armed and at least have a chance of defending yourself, or would you prefer to be helplessly waiting for someone else who is armed, hoping they get there in time?

Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including both of Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[4] Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.​

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

 

[hortysir]

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

I have serious doubts that you'd pass a background check for purchasing a gun, much less actually own any

 

[Brain357]

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

I have serious doubts that you'd pass a background check for purchasing a gun, much less actually own any

Please explain. I'd love to hear your intelligent explanation.

 

[hortysir]

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

I have serious doubts that you'd pass a background check for purchasing a gun, much less actually own any

Please explain. I'd love to hear your intelligent explanation.

You claim that you could obtain a CWP, if you wanted to.
That would imply that you have a weapon capable of concealment.

Why possess such a weapon but for personal protection?
Yet you state that you would not want to be armed in a violent situation.

:bs:

 

[Brain357]

I have serious doubts that you'd pass a background check for purchasing a gun, much less actually own any

Please explain. I'd love to hear your intelligent explanation.

You claim that you could obtain a CWP, if you wanted to.
That would imply that you have a weapon capable of concealment.

Why possess such a weapon but for personal protection?
Yet you state that you would not want to be armed in a violent situation.

:bs:

I don't own one but have a perfectly clean record and could certainly buy one. If I can buy one then I can get a carry license. But your right since I don't wish to concealed carry I have Ruger GP100 .357 with 4" barrel which probably isn't the best concealed weapon. I pretty clearly explained why I wouldn't want to be armed in this situation. I think it would make things worse than it was.

 

[Missourian]

Oh I'm perfectly willing to answer your question. I have no concealed carry license even though I certainly could. And in this instance I would prefer to just be unarmed. There were a lot of people working in that building and it was like 4 stories. Most people got out without ever seeing the shooter. Unarmed you had one shooter to worry about and you would run or hide. Pull out your gun and you have to worry about the shooter and being mistaken for the shooter by the police. Throw in multiple others carrying and you have to worry about them also. The shooter would have the advantage if you ran into him in the hall. You might recognize him as a coworker and think he's ok. But no matter what you have to think before shooting and he doesn't. But I'll admit my answer might change depending on the shooting. At Newtown I wish I could have been armed and within helping distance.

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

I'll prelude this comment with this caveat...the chances are infinitesimal that either of us would ever need a gun to defend ourselves.

These mass shootings are big news, but the fact is, Homicide is down 49% since 1991, and I think there is little doubt that gun rights have expanded greatly in that time.

Conceal Carry was but a glimmer on the horizon in 1991 when homicides reached their peak.

And mass murder is an extremely small percentage of homicide.

10News - Mass, multiple murders rates constant despite overall decline in homicides12172012 - 10News.com - News

I reckon I would respond to your post thusly...

If I have a gun, I have the choice of using it, or not using it, dependent on the situation.

If I choose to carry no gun, all further choices evaporate.

I'd rather leave my options open than close them off and leave myself and others helpless if the situation unfolded in a way in which my firearm could save lives.

More succinctly, I rather have it and not need it, or have it and not use it than need it and not have it.

 

[Brain357]

I would rather be armed.

If I could save myself or someone else, it would be worth the risk.

How about Virginia Tech, where Cho chained the doors shut.

Yes, being armed has it's own drawbacks, but the deterrent value of multiple armed defenders has to be taken into account as well.

At least folks have a chance of barricading themselves in an office and holding off an armed attacker.

I don't disagree that sometimes I would want to be armed and sometimes not. Since I choose not to concealed carry obviously I've decided there are mores time I wouldn't than would. I couldn't live with myself if I shot and killed the wrong person. A lot of responsibility.

There was someone carrying at the Tucson shooting. If he was going to shoot someone it would have been the wrong person. Luckily he was responsible and shot no one. But that didn't help stop the shooter. The shooter was stopped when he tried to reload. Which as you know is why I think magazine size should be limited. If the concealed carry guy had picked the right person and shot I really think he'd have got him in 3 or less shots. And if it took more there would have been others accidently shot.

I'll prelude this comment with this caveat...the chances are infinitesimal that either of us would ever need a gun to defend ourselves.

These mass shootings are big news, but the fact is, Homicide is down 49% since 1991, and I think there is little doubt that gun rights have expanded greatly in that time.

Conceal Carry was but a glimmer on the horizon in 1991 when homicides reached their peak.

And mass murder is an extremely small percentage of homicide.

10News - Mass, multiple murders rates constant despite overall decline in homicides12172012 - 10News.com - News

I reckon I would respond to your post thusly...

If I have a gun, I have the choice of using it, or not using it, dependent on the situation.

If I choose to carry no gun, all further choices evaporate.

I'd rather leave my options open than close them off and leave myself and others helpless if the situation unfolded in a way in which my firearm could save lives.

More succinctly, I rather have it and not need it, or have it and not use it than need it and not have it.

Very nice response. It can be difficult to get a smart, well thought response on here. I guess that's why I think your alright even though we mostly disagree.

So I think what you saying is why I have not come out supporting anything that would keep you from doing that. While I don't concealed carry I'm not supporting anything against it. I support bans on hi cap magazines, but studies show there is plenty of rounds for defense. And I support background checks for all gun sales and want more added involving mental health. I'm pretty sure none of that would slow you down. I don't quite get gun free zones, but haven't gone back to see just what the thinking was on them. I mean a military base being gun free sounds pretty silly to me, but there must be some reason for it? I think some of the biggest gone free zones are large companies, they don't seem to want employees being armed.

 

[Contumacious]

Navy Yard: Swat team 'stood down' at mass shooting scene

By Debbie Siegelbaum BBC News, Washington

One of the first teams of heavily armed police to respond to Monday's shooting in Washington DC was ordered to stand down by superiors, the BBC can reveal.

HUH?

WTF?

Can you say incompetence?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


.

NAVY YARD SURVEILLANCE VIDEO


None of the US government owned media has commented about the SWAT team being ordered to stand down.

.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I suppose the next step is to manufacture a yarn that Obama phoned in the stand down order. From the golf course. While watching the shooting through the eyes of a drone via a Blackberry app. For seven hours.

Give Stephanie time, it just needs to hit one of her websites and we'll get the regurgitation passed along here as "news"