Brain Candy

[ChemEngineer]

If you add a liter of water at the boiling point, 100 degrees Celsius, to a liter of water at its freezing point, 0 degrees Celsius, you obviously get two liters at 50 degrees C.

Without doing any calculations what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add a liter of water at 100 C to a liter frozen into ice at 0 C?

Now what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add three liters frozen into ice at 0 C to a kilogram (liter of water) of steam at 100 C in a perfectly insulated container?

The answers are amazing.

 

[JoeMoma]

If you add a liter of water at the boiling point, 100 degrees Celsius, to a liter of water at its freezing point, 0 degrees Celsius, you obviously get two liters at 50 degrees C.

Without doing any calculations what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add a liter of water at 100 C to a liter frozen into ice at 0 C?

Now what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add three liters frozen into ice at 0 C to a kilogram (liter of water) of steam at 100 C in a perfectly insulated container?

The answers are amazing.

I'm to lazy to look the stuff up, but I know there is an amount of energy associated with the phase changes -- ice to liquid or liquid to steam at which there is no temperature change.

 

[JoeMoma]

My SWAG: 2 degrees C

 

[Moonglow]

If you add a liter of water at the boiling point, 100 degrees Celsius, to a liter of water at its freezing point, 0 degrees Celsius, you obviously get two liters at 50 degrees C.

Without doing any calculations what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add a liter of water at 100 C to a liter frozen into ice at 0 C?

Now what is your best guess of what the equilibrium temperature is when you add three liters frozen into ice at 0 C to a kilogram (liter of water) of steam at 100 C in a perfectly insulated container?

The answers are amazing.

instantaneously or after a period of time?

 

[ChemEngineer]

Seventy-two views and only one guess by JoMoma.

Don't be afraid to guess wrong, people.



A gram of ice melts while absorbing 80 calories which cools the hot water from 100 to 20 C.

Equal quantities of 20 C water and 0 C water equilibrate at 10 degrees C. (Heat of fusion = 80 cal/gram)


Now add one pound, ton, or gram of ice at 0 degrees Celsius while piping in a like amount of steam at 100 degrees C and what do you think the equilibrium temperature will be? (It’s crazy.)


The first gram of steam entirely melts all the equal amount of ice while losing only 80 calories. It then loses another 100 calories raising the temperature from 0 to 100. All the water and steam are 100 degrees C. Another two grams of ice can be added and the final equilibrium temperature of 3 grams, or pounds, or tons of ice with 1 gram, pound, or ton of steam, will all be at 100 degrees C, the boiling point.

(Heat of vaporization is 540 calories per gram)

1 unit of steam melts and heats 3 units of ice to its temperature of water’s boiling point.

 

[JoeMoma]

Seventy-two views and only one guess by JoMoma.

Don't be afraid to guess wrong, people.



A gram of ice melts while absorbing 80 calories which cools the hot water from 100 to 20 C.

Equal quantities of 20 C water and 0 C water equilibrate at 10 degrees C. (Heat of fusion = 80 cal/gram)


Now add one pound, ton, or gram of ice at 0 degrees Celsius while piping in a like amount of steam at 100 degrees C and what do you think the equilibrium temperature will be? (It’s crazy.)


The first gram of steam entirely melts all the equal amount of ice while losing only 80 calories. It then loses another 100 calories raising the temperature from 0 to 100. All the water and steam are 100 degrees C. Another two grams of ice can be added and the final equilibrium temperature of 3 grams, or pounds, or tons of ice with 1 gram, pound, or ton of steam, will all be at 100 degrees C, the boiling point.

(Heat of vaporization is 540 calories per gram)

1 unit of steam melts and heats 3 units of ice to its temperature of water’s boiling point.

I was guessing that the heat of melting ice (or freezing water) was much greater than the heat of vaporization. I had that backwards.

 

[JoeMoma]

 

[ChemEngineer]

I was guessing that the heat of melting ice (or freezing water) was much greater than the heat of vaporization. I had that backwards.

Big Joe, thanks for your inputs. You da only one wid balls around here, seems like. I mean, sides me o course.

There is a huge implication in that phase diagram at the Triple Point, where water, steam and ice can remain in stable equilibrium indefinitely. It is this: Water cannot freeze at the same temperature that ice is melting. Chemistry students are told "water freezes at 0" and simultaneously "ice melts at 0."

Wha? Then take away the Triple Point, right? You make a perfect freezer at exactly 0 and put in one tray of ice and one tray of water and the first thaws while the second freezes? Think about that.

 

[JoeMoma]

I was guessing that the heat of melting ice (or freezing water) was much greater than the heat of vaporization. I had that backwards.

Big Joe, thanks for your inputs. You da only one wid balls around here, seems like. I mean, sides me o course.

There is a huge implication in that phase diagram at the Triple Point, where water, steam and ice can remain in stable equilibrium indefinitely. It is this: Water cannot freeze at the same temperature that ice is melting. Chemistry students are told "water freezes at 0" and simultaneously "ice melts at 0."

Wha? Then take away the Triple Point, right? You make a perfect freezer at exactly 0 and put in one tray of ice and one tray of water and the first thaws while the second freezes? Think about that.

View attachment 452900

I was taught ( engineering major) that both ice and water are usually present at 0 degrees C (one atmosphere of pressure). It is very difficult to maintain only ice at 0 degrees C or only water at 0 degrees C.

 

[james bond]

My answer was...

 

[JoeMoma]

My answer was...

View attachment 452930

What was the question.....or is your answer also the question?

 

[james bond]

My answer was...

View attachment 452930

What was the question.....or is your answer also the question?

I got the first part right about equal amounts of boiling water to ice.

The next question, I never thought of -- I think 3x amount of ice to steam or even equal amounts of ice to steam. Who in the fark does that? You get that funky conversion in-between to water which takes some energy. People won't know that.

Anyway, to get even, I have a question for ChemEngineer and others here. Which is better -- a shaken or stirred martini? Why? Either way, you're getting 1.5 oz vs 1 oz of booze, so you're coming out ahead in terms of liquor.

 

[ChemEngineer]

I got the first part right about equal amounts of boiling water to ice.

The next question, I never thought of -- I think 3x amount of ice to steam or even equal amounts of ice to steam. Who in the fark does that? You get that funky conversion in-between to water which takes some energy. People won't know that.

Anyway, to get even, I have a question for ChemEngineer and others here. Which is better -- a shaken or stirred martini? Why? Either way, you're getting 1.5 oz vs 1 oz of booze, so you're coming out ahead in terms of liquor.

My answer to your martini question is "Who in the fark" cares? I have never been a drinker.

Back to the subject of the thread, viz., "Brain Candy."

As the Cat in the Hat said, "It is fun to have fun but you have to know how."

The strongest "muscle" in the human body is your brain. With it, you can lift tremendous weights using pullies, levers, and machinery that the brain designed and made to handle weights far in excess of what pathetic muscles can do.

Using your brain strengthens it just as using your muscles strengthens them. Learn new things, new activities, and grow your horizons. Ever try a cryptoquote? Create your own website for the enjoyment and enlightenment of others? Surely you have much to give.

If you did not wish to enjoy brain candy, why did you open the thread? If you failed to enjoy it or at least learn something about the profound physico-chemical properties of water, please try harder. It takes practice.

On this subject of Brain Candy, I offer this for your children or grandchildren:

GoodKidsFun

GoodKidsFun.blogspot.com

 

[ChemEngineer]

My answer was...

View attachment 452930

"That's not right. It's not even wrong." - Wolfgang Pauli, Physicist

 

[ChemEngineer]

I was taught ( engineering major) that both ice and water are usually present at 0 degrees C (one atmosphere of pressure). It is very difficult to maintain only ice at 0 degrees C or only water at 0 degrees C.

Big Joe, in an unusual combination of mechanical and chemical engineering, I just replaced my refrigerator water filter after 6 1/2 years of constant use. (Manufacturers recommend changing it every six months, so I was only off by just over one order of magnitude, but who's counting.)

I cut both ends off with a hacksaw, resulting in fine white plastic particles, not contaminants from the filter. Then I sliced the carbon filter with a razor blade and there was absolutely nothing visible that the filter captured.

Obviously water filters don't do much but they're pretty expensive. The new one was $25.
Tap water won't kill ya. Gramma and grampa grew up on it.

The activated carbon may have adsorbed some trace chemicals and lost their adsorptive capacity. We survived, somehow.

 

[JoeMoma]

I was taught ( engineering major) that both ice and water are usually present at 0 degrees C (one atmosphere of pressure). It is very difficult to maintain only ice at 0 degrees C or only water at 0 degrees C.

Big Joe, in an unusual combination of mechanical and chemical engineering, I just replaced my refrigerator water filter after 6 1/2 years of constant use. (Manufacturers recommend changing it every six months, so I was only off by just over one order of magnitude, but who's counting.)

I cut both ends off with a hacksaw, resulting in fine white plastic particles, not contaminants from the filter. Then I sliced the carbon filter with a razor blade and there was absolutely nothing visible that the filter captured.

Obviously water filters don't do much but they're pretty expensive. The new one was $25.
Tap water won't kill ya. Gramma and grampa grew up on it.

View attachment 452976

The activated carbon may have adsorbed some trace chemicals and lost their adsorptive capacity. We survived, somehow.

I grew up on tap water too...city water as we called it because it wasn't well water from the property, but from the local town's water system. The fluoride put in the water seemed to have worked, because I have my teeth still. Both my parents had false teeth by the time they were in their 40s.

 

[ChemEngineer]

I was taught ( engineering major) that both ice and water are usually present at 0 degrees C (one atmosphere of pressure). It is very difficult to maintain only ice at 0 degrees C or only water at 0 degrees C.

Big Joe, in an unusual combination of mechanical and chemical engineering, I just replaced my refrigerator water filter after 6 1/2 years of constant use. (Manufacturers recommend changing it every six months, so I was only off by just over one order of magnitude, but who's counting.)

I cut both ends off with a hacksaw, resulting in fine white plastic particles, not contaminants from the filter. Then I sliced the carbon filter with a razor blade and there was absolutely nothing visible that the filter captured.

Obviously water filters don't do much but they're pretty expensive. The new one was $25.
Tap water won't kill ya. Gramma and grampa grew up on it.

View attachment 452976

The activated carbon may have adsorbed some trace chemicals and lost their adsorptive capacity. We survived, somehow.

I grew up on tap water too...city water as we called it because it wasn't well water from the property, but from the local town's water system. The fluoride put in the water seemed to have worked, because I have my teeth still. Both my parents had false teeth by the time they were in their 40s.

Mine too. Unfortunately they never taught me to brush or floss and I didn't see a dentist until I was in high school. Very bad start. It's no fun growing up poor, but I moved up quite dramatically.
Made two fortunes and still have one.

 

[james bond]

My answer to your martini question is "Who in the fark" cares? I have never been a drinker.

It's brain candy. Shaking the liquor with ice makes it colder faster as more energy is transferred and more of the ice melts.

For the drinkers:
That said, one doesn't usually want a colder martini, so it's better to stir it which is the way it is supposed to be made. It also dilutes the liquor a bit either way, but you're getting a cold drink without the ice watering it down.

"That's not right. It's not even wrong." - Wolfgang Pauli, Physicist

Where I just stopped was I didn't know what happens when the ice changes from water to steam. Was that immediate or did it take time? Maybe I missed that part in your explanation.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Where I just stopped was I didn't know what happens when the ice changes from water to steam. Was that immediate or did it take time? Maybe I missed that part in your explanation.

In no case does ice melt to water, heat up to 100 and then vaporize. Good point, it is a process dependent on the quantities involved and their surface area. Using just one gram for simplicity speeds up the process and facilitates calculations.

Here's another thought. In elementary school, my daughter needed a science project. I took her to a college chemistry lab and used steam cone to heat various materials to 100 Celsius after weighting them. We put an equal mass of water at room temperature and then calculated their specific heats with water as a reference of 1. NOTHING holds heat like water. Nothing except steam. Well, and hydrogen but who uses that stuff.

Gold only holds 1/33 as much heat as water. So in other words if you add 33 grams (or ounces if you wish) of gold at 0 Celsius, right out of the freezer to 1 gram (or ounce) of water out of the steam cone at 100 Celsius, they will equilibrate at 50 degrees C. Metals have very low specific heats because they do not have any method of storing heat other than intramolecular vibration.
In contrast, water can translate (move laterally), rotate in any direction, and the hydrogen molecules can vibrate back and forth to and from the oxygen molecule AND they can vibrate like a tuning fork.

God's design of water, with its countless properties, should strengthen your wonderful faith.

Here, one of my many websites: Water. Wow!

 

[ChemEngineer]

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