Boycotts and browbeating of Israel: What’s changed since the last Gaza war?

[Kimura]

Hardly. I have friends who work on Wall Street and they know where the money is going.
Many secular Jews lost many of their relatives in the Holocaust and they ain't taking shit anymore.

I also work on Wall Street, Jews aren't a monolithic group. I lost family in the Holocaust (great aunts and uncles), but that doesn't justify the way Palestinians are treated. That card simply can't be used, it doesn't provide any moral justifications at all. Quite the contrary.

That card is never used. Israelis/Jews don't use the Holocaust to justify anything , even though we hear the opposite.
In fact, I always see anti zionists bringing up the Holocaust, but almost never the other war around.

Indeependent said:

Many secular Jews lost many of their relatives in the Holocaust and they ain't taking shit anymore.

That doesn't sound like a justification to you or do you have trouble reading between the lines?

 

[Kimura]

Israelis should matter to Israel first.

If the people of Gaza don't matter to Hamas, so what can Israel possibly do?

Hamas excecuted poor civilians who dared to protest against it. over 20 people were excecuted, for nothing but daring to think, and others were injured.

A field hospital Israel created for women and children was targeted by Hamas, who didn't want Gaza civilians to get treatment.

Hamas is to be blamed for this bloodshed.

Hamas is the organic manifestation of desperation. The Palestinians were quite passive for many years, even after everything that went down 1948.

That's a crock of apologist camel crap.
Hamas is just the latest in a long line of Palestinian "organic manifestations of desperation" ... a desperation which was fostered and feed by decades of failed leadership and the exhortations of those who would keep them as a knife at Israel's throat.

LOL

Where have I failed acknowledge Palestinian violence in this thread? It's become obvious acts of violence can't be separated from the conflict. It boils down to a group of people that have become increasingly dispossessed.

 

[Daniyel]

Hamas is the organic manifestation of desperation. The Palestinians were quite passive for many years, even after everything that went down 1948.

That's a crock of apologist camel crap.
Hamas is just the latest in a long line of Palestinian "organic manifestations of desperation" ... a desperation which was fostered and feed by decades of failed leadership and the exhortations of those who would keep them as a knife at Israel's throat.

LOL

Where have I failed acknowledge Palestinian violence in this thread? It's become obvious acts of violence can't be separated from the conflict. It boils down to a group of people that have become increasingly dispossessed.

But of course we in Israel enjoy having over 40 TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS SWORE TO KILL US ALL!!
Sorry for not taking a bullet or two before shooting the 'dispossessed' terrorists.

 

[SAYIT]

There needs to be something similar to Godwin's law but for Jews who call other Jews self-hating Jews.

Why?

Is that not true?

Don't you know there is an ugly phenomenon of self hating Jews?

It's ridiculous.

As a Jew, if I call Israel on their incessant and pedantic bullshit, that makes me a self-hating Jew?

If you are Jewish and you refer to Israel's very measured and necessary defense as "incessant and pedandic bullshit" then you are not only not much of a Jew, you are not much of a human.

 

[Kimura]

Why?

Is that not true?

Don't you know there is an ugly phenomenon of self hating Jews?

It's ridiculous.

As a Jew, if I call Israel on their incessant and pedantic bullshit, that makes me a self-hating Jew?

If you are Jewish and you refer to Israel's very measured and necessary defense as "incessant and pedandic bullshit" then you are not only not much of a Jew you are not much of a human.

I was referring to Israeli policy, not self-defense, which everyone should have a right to.

Measured, lol, okie dokie.

 

[SAYIT]

Hamas is the organic manifestation of desperation. The Palestinians were quite passive for many years, even after everything that went down 1948.

That's a crock of apologist camel crap.
Hamas is just the latest in a long line of Palestinian "organic manifestations of desperation" ... a desperation which was fostered and feed by decades of failed leadership and the exhortations of those who would keep them as a knife at Israel's throat.

LOL
Where have I failed acknowledge Palestinian violence in this thread?

Where did I say you had?

 

[Kimura]

That's a crock of apologist camel crap.
Hamas is just the latest in a long line of Palestinian "organic manifestations of desperation" ... a desperation which was fostered and feed by decades of failed leadership and the exhortations of those who would keep them as a knife at Israel's throat.

LOL
Where have I failed acknowledge Palestinian violence in this thread?

Where did I say you had?

By the way, 1600-1800 dead civilians, 415 of which were children.

Is this the part where you tell me it's their own fault?

If that's your definition of measured, I don't know what else to say.

Benjamin Netanyahu's moral compass is so fucked up, I'm surprised he can make it to the bathroom to take a piss in the morning.

 

[Crystalclear]

It's ridiculous.



As a Jew, if I call Israel on their incessant and pedantic bullshit, that makes me a self-hating Jew?

If you are Jewish and you refer to Israel's very measured and necessary defense as "incessant and pedandic bullshit" then you are not only not much of a Jew you are not much of a human.

I was referring to Israeli policy, not self-defense, which everyone should have a right to.



Measured, lol, okie dokie.

The Israeli policy right now is about self-defense

 

[Lipush]

Hamas is the organic manifestation of desperation. The Palestinians were quite passive for many years, even after everything that went down 1948.

What's their alternative? The Palestinian Authority, what a spineless and incompetent bunch. The IDF leveled El-Wafa Hospital even though they knew their were no weapons inside. Setting up a field hospital is the least they could do.

What's their alternative???

Accept Israel's existance, and abadon the way of terror and death.

That'll be a good starting point!

I agree. Aziz Duwaik said they'd be willing to admit to accept Israel's right exist, but they want multiple party talks, which should include the EU as a broker. I'm starting to think the two-state solution isn't going to happen. That shipped has sailed.

Like I said, the settlements are actually a form of national suicide in the end. I can't even fathom how the Israeli government can support crazy people.

Which crazy people are you talking about?

 

[Lipush]

There needs to be something similar to Godwin's law but for Jews who call other Jews self-hating Jews.

Why?

Is that not true?

Don't you know there is an ugly phenomenon of self hating Jews?

It's ridiculous.

As a Jew, if I call Israel on their incessant and pedantic bullshit, that makes me a self-hating Jew?

Critisicm of Israel is not what makes one self hating Jew.

Criticism of Israel joined by twisting facts to cover up lies, ignoring other facts while blaming Israel alone for most of the problems in the area, combine those and you'll have an example of a self hating Jew.

 

[Kimura]

What's their alternative???

Accept Israel's existance, and abadon the way of terror and death.

That'll be a good starting point!

I agree. Aziz Duwaik said they'd be willing to admit to accept Israel's right exist, but they want multiple party talks, which should include the EU as a broker. I'm starting to think the two-state solution isn't going to happen. That shipped has sailed.

Like I said, the settlements are actually a form of national suicide in the end. I can't even fathom how the Israeli government can support crazy people.

Which crazy people are you talking about?

The settlers....

The Israeli government supports them in the West Bank.

 

[Lipush]

Why are the settlers crazy?

 

[Kimura]

Why are the settlers crazy?

I don't even know where to start. I think most religious people aren't playing with a full deck to begin with. Let's not even mention the Israeli government subsidizes this insanity.

You have settlers moving into homes that don't belong to them, taking land that people worked for years.

 

[Kimura]

This also creates a problem for a two-state solution. You can't just remove 350,000 people and relocate them without resistance. It would be tough for the IDF to forcibly remove these people. What does one do?

I see two options:

#1 They stay but they live in a Palestinian State. Personally, I don't see a problem with such a state being 10-20% Jewish, Israel has an Arab population of around 20% if I'm not mistaken.

#2 You have the IDF go in and remove them if need be, but they'll have to be compensated regardless of any relocation (probably a horrible idea, they'll get violent, it'll make removal of the Gaza settlers look like a stroll in the park).

My two cents....

 

[danny30]

Kimura, Israel are fighting a war for their survival against terrorists who want all of them all dead. Innocent civilians have died, and I feel sad about this too, but that is what happens during such conflicts, just because the world is outraged doesn't change that facts. If Israel were targeting Innocent people the death toll would be considerably higher.
Why is is that people like you cannot grasp the concept that Hamas have shoot rockets and place children in those areas to die as human shields. Just a bit of research and a simple understanding of Hamas and what they stand for should tell you that.

Then you have the casualty figures.

"An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."

That alone shows that the bombing is not indiscriminate. It all comes down to the same thing again and again, basically children will unfortunately get killed because of Hamas's strategy of placing them in danger, then people like you will cry out and blame Israel, which incidentally is why Hamas are doing what there doing. They know that there are plenty of gullible people who will see the deaths of innocents, particularly children and will automatically go against Israel.

I truly want there to be peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis but I know deep down inside that it will never happen. This is not a war over land and anyone who honestly believes that or thinks that it can be solved by a two state solution has no idea about the conflict. It is a religious war plain and simple.

Kimura, I appreciate that you feel disgusted when you see innocent people dying but you really need to get it out of your head that Israel are deliberately targeting innocent people. If that was the case then logic would tell you that after nearly a month conflict the casualty figures would have been in the tens of thousands at least.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kimura,
No goalpost have changed.
Focus...
You are stating that attempted murder is not a crime.
Or are you stating that if the governing authority does not stop repeated attempts at murder then nobody else has the authority to do so.
Gee, what happens when it's the GOVERNING authority that is attempting murder?

Killing "protected persons" is a crime. The nationals of an occupying power are not protected persons.

 

[Kimura]

Kimura, Israel are fighting a war for their survival against terrorists who want all of them all dead. Innocent civilians have died, and I feel sad about this too, but that is what happens during such conflicts, just because the world is outraged doesn't change that facts. If Israel were targeting Innocent people the death toll would be considerably higher.
Why is is that people like you cannot grasp the concept that Hamas have shoot rockets and place children in those areas to die as human shields. Just a bit of research and a simple understanding of Hamas and what they stand for should tell you that.

Then you have the casualty figures.

"An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."

That alone shows that the bombing is not indiscriminate. It all comes down to the same thing again and again, basically children will unfortunately get killed because of Hamas's strategy of placing them in danger, then people like you will cry out and blame Israel, which incidentally is why Hamas are doing what there doing. They know that there are plenty of gullible people who will see the deaths of innocents, particularly children and will automatically go against Israel.

I truly want there to be peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis but I know deep down inside that it will never happen. This is not a war over land and anyone who honestly believes that or thinks that it can be solved by a two state solution has no idea about the conflict. It is a religious war plain and simple.

Kimura, I appreciate that you feel disgusted when you see innocent people dying but you really need to get it out of your head that Israel are deliberately targeting innocent people. If that was the case then logic would tell you that after nearly a month conflict the casualty figures would have been in the tens of thousands at least.

The causality figures weren't higher because the US told Israel to stop once the causalities became unacceptable to the international community. Obama made the call and reeled Bibi in. The IDF ground offensive stayed within the outskirts of Gaza. The Israeli public simply will not tolerate high casualties. Even some of the Israelis here will agree with me on this.

 

[Indeependent]

I also work on Wall Street, Jews aren't a monolithic group. I lost family in the Holocaust (great aunts and uncles), but that doesn't justify the way Palestinians are treated. That card simply can't be used, it doesn't provide any moral justifications at all. Quite the contrary.

That card is never used. Israelis/Jews don't use the Holocaust to justify anything , even though we hear the opposite.
In fact, I always see anti zionists bringing up the Holocaust, but almost never the other war around.

Indeependent said:

Many secular Jews lost many of their relatives in the Holocaust and they ain't taking shit anymore.

That doesn't sound like a justification to you or do you have trouble reading between the lines?

Not the Holocaust itself, but the concrete manifestation of blind hatred accompanied by murderous behavior.
Jews have plenty more in history to remember than just WWII Germany.
Jews who actually lost family don't PONDER on terrorism, they REACT to it.

Speaking of Tel Aviv and people living in a fantasy land, Israel didn't react to Aza's attacks on S'derot for YEARS because, ah, what they heck, just a bunch of poor Jews.
But attack Tel Aviv ONCE, and the Israelis went BONKERS!
And voila, sudden response.

I guess some Jew boy from the Knesset can just go to Aza and ask someone politely to stop the attacks.
Nu?

 

[Indeependent]

Kimura, Israel are fighting a war for their survival against terrorists who want all of them all dead. Innocent civilians have died, and I feel sad about this too, but that is what happens during such conflicts, just because the world is outraged doesn't change that facts. If Israel were targeting Innocent people the death toll would be considerably higher.
Why is is that people like you cannot grasp the concept that Hamas have shoot rockets and place children in those areas to die as human shields. Just a bit of research and a simple understanding of Hamas and what they stand for should tell you that.

Then you have the casualty figures.

"An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."

That alone shows that the bombing is not indiscriminate. It all comes down to the same thing again and again, basically children will unfortunately get killed because of Hamas's strategy of placing them in danger, then people like you will cry out and blame Israel, which incidentally is why Hamas are doing what there doing. They know that there are plenty of gullible people who will see the deaths of innocents, particularly children and will automatically go against Israel.

I truly want there to be peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis but I know deep down inside that it will never happen. This is not a war over land and anyone who honestly believes that or thinks that it can be solved by a two state solution has no idea about the conflict. It is a religious war plain and simple.

Kimura, I appreciate that you feel disgusted when you see innocent people dying but you really need to get it out of your head that Israel are deliberately targeting innocent people. If that was the case then logic would tell you that after nearly a month conflict the casualty figures would have been in the tens of thousands at least.

The Israeli public simply will not tolerate high casualties.

Those who won't are fools; or is that just elite Peaceniks in Tel Aviv?
They WILL tolerate it when someone in THEIR family, God forbid, gets hurt or killed.

 

[Indeependent]

Kimura,
No goalpost have changed.
Focus...
You are stating that attempted murder is not a crime.
Or are you stating that if the governing authority does not stop repeated attempts at murder then nobody else has the authority to do so.
Gee, what happens when it's the GOVERNING authority that is attempting murder?

Killing "protected persons" is a crime. The nationals of an occupying power are not protected persons.

Sorry, Tin, those who cheer on and linger amongst military personnel are targets.
You only have two ways to view this...
[] The "civilians" are cheerleaders in which case they die
[] The "civilians" are forced to shield Hamas
Take your pick.