Boycott Israel

[Indeependent]

Have you seen a kosher slaughter house and how clean it is, compared to the halal ones that are filthy and fly ridden.

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Indeed, greed is a tremendous motivations for human beings, regardless of religion.
These facilities should be fined and closed.

 

[Sally]

Have you seen a kosher slaughter house and how clean it is, compared to the halal ones that are filthy and fly ridden.

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Indeed, greed is a tremendous motivations for human beings, regardless of religion.
These facilities should be fined and closed.

I guess I must have missed a few posts. How in the world did this thread get into talking about Kosher meats?

 

[Coyote]

Have you seen a kosher slaughter house and how clean it is, compared to the halal ones that are filthy and fly ridden.

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Is there much difference between kosher and halal? There must not be although there are likely far fewer halal markets available than kosther so that might be why they use the kosher. Can't be a lot of differnece though...

 

[Sally]

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Is there much difference between kosher and halal? There must not be although there are likely far fewer halal markets available than kosther so that might be why they use the kosher. Can't be a lot of differnece though...

Since I don't work in a meat processing plant which is either Halal or Kosher, I really wouldn't know. I would imagine that there is some difference. Maybe someone who is a Muslim can tell us what goes on when it comes to Halal food processing (like the method of slaughter and the prayers that must be said), and someone who is following the Kosher rules can tell us what goes on in a Kosher processing plant with the same criteria -- method of slaughter and prayers which are said.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Is there much difference between kosher and halal? There must not be although there are likely far fewer halal markets available than kosther so that might be why they use the kosher. Can't be a lot of differnece though...

Since I don't work in a meat processing plant which is either Halal or Kosher, I really wouldn't know. I would imagine that there is some difference. Maybe someone who is a Muslim can tell us what goes on when it comes to Halal food processing (like the method of slaughter and the prayers that must be said), and someone who is following the Kosher rules can tell us what goes on in a Kosher processing plant with the same criteria -- method of slaughter and prayers which are said.

I think the method of slaughter is somewhat different. Also, camels might be slaughtered in a Muslim slaughterhouse but not a Jewish one. (Both don't eat pork.)

 

[aris2chat]

Have you seen a kosher slaughter house and how clean it is, compared to the halal ones that are filthy and fly ridden.

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

 

[Victory67]

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

You have a very naive idea that Kosher butchers would throw out meat that doesn't comply with kosher laws or toss animals if they violate Kashrut regulations.

Man, its a business. Profit is their motive. They are going to do everything they can to maximize profit.

Until I see evidence that there are large groups of auditors that go out and examine the integrity and thoroughness of Kosher-certified meat & poultry plants, I'm going to use my brain and assume the thumb is on the scale.

 

[Victory67]

Like I thought, nothing 100% healthier or better about kosher meat. The USDA has the final call as to whether an animal is safe and healthy enough to eat.

Are kosher and halal meats safer or more environmentally friendly than regular meat?

 

[aris2chat]

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

You have a very naive idea that Kosher butchers would throw out meat that doesn't comply with kosher laws or toss animals if they violate Kashrut regulations.

Man, its a business. Profit is their motive. They are going to do everything they can to maximize profit.

Until I see evidence that there are large groups of auditors that go out and examine the integrity and thoroughness of Kosher-certified meat & poultry plants, I'm going to use my brain and assume the thumb is on the scale.

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

 

[Victory67]

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

The USDA inspector may reject an animal that the bodek permits, and vice versa, though the USDA always makes the final call on whether meat is safe to sell. According to Joe Regenstein, head of the Cornell Kosher and Halal Food Initiative, it's unclear what health implications&#8212;if any&#8212;the extra religious examination might have for consumers. (Regenstein also says there's no data showing that the cleansing, final-days diet used in some halal systems translates into health benefits for you and me.)

There is no kosher rule against feeding an animal crap, hormones, or other garbage.


"First of all, the rules for producing kosher meat don't specify how to raise the animals or what to feed them. So unless the label says otherwise, you're not likely to be getting the flesh of an animal reared on organic grasses"

 

[Indeependent]

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

You have a very naive idea that Kosher butchers would throw out meat that doesn't comply with kosher laws or toss animals if they violate Kashrut regulations.

Man, its a business. Profit is their motive. They are going to do everything they can to maximize profit.

Until I see evidence that there are large groups of auditors that go out and examine the integrity and thoroughness of Kosher-certified meat & poultry plants, I'm going to use my brain and assume the thumb is on the scale.

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

You are COMPLETLEY correct.

Many of the laws of slaughtering are in Tractate Chullin.
There is a specific Kashrus Ordination; It requires several years of study.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

The USDA inspector may reject an animal that the bodek permits, and vice versa, though the USDA always makes the final call on whether meat is safe to sell. According to Joe Regenstein, head of the Cornell Kosher and Halal Food Initiative, it's unclear what health implications—if any—the extra religious examination might have for consumers. (Regenstein also says there's no data showing that the cleansing, final-days diet used in some halal systems translates into health benefits for you and me.)

There is no kosher rule against feeding an animal crap, hormones, or other garbage.

I've eaten in kosher establishments. On particularly hot days, I've also walked into non-kosher establishments to have a Coke if there are no kosher places nearby. I can tell you that some non-kosher establishments have pungent smells that kosher places simply do not have.

 

[Indeependent]

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

The USDA inspector may reject an animal that the bodek permits, and vice versa, though the USDA always makes the final call on whether meat is safe to sell. According to Joe Regenstein, head of the Cornell Kosher and Halal Food Initiative, it's unclear what health implications—if any—the extra religious examination might have for consumers. (Regenstein also says there's no data showing that the cleansing, final-days diet used in some halal systems translates into health benefits for you and me.)

There is no kosher rule against feeding an animal crap, hormones, or other garbage.


"First of all, the rules for producing kosher meat don't specify how to raise the animals or what to feed them. So unless the label says otherwise, you're not likely to be getting the flesh of an animal reared on organic grasses"

That's a pretty silly opening paragraph as all food facilities are under the legal auspices of the USDA.
I don't know all the rules as my previous posting indicates they are NUMEROUS and require a very special degree of study.

OTOH, everything in life is under the auspices of the rabbinate and requires a very special degree of study.
One shouldn't even be a landlord unless one confers with their local rabbinical authority on the specified subject.

 

[Victory67]

I've eaten in kosher establishments. On particularly hot days, I've also walked into non-kosher establishments to have a Coke if there are no kosher places nearby. I can tell you that some non-kosher establishments have pungent smells that kosher places simply do not have.

I once bought kosher chicken to see if smelled better and looked better.

It did not. The best meat I have ever bought is USDA Organic chicken and grass-fed beef from Whole Foods.

Kosher meats look crappy.

 

[Jroc]

The Israel Boycott, Anti-Judaism, and the Giant Shrug

January 7, 2014 by Jackson Doughart

...

I’ve long tried to understand the contemporary Left’s obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian dispute and its tunnel-visioned view of the matter

the far right is as anti-Semitic as the far left.

the difference is that the far right also hates mulims/arabs.... and the far left sees the terrorists and their supporters as somehow being downtrodden.

Humm...Are there "right wing" boycotts of Israel? if so post them. How about on college campuses ? Humm.... How about the 2112 democrat platform which eliminated support for Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?..Oh they put it back in forcibly for political reasons. You can stay in denial if you want. Generally Religious Christians support Israel because of their Religious beliefs. The left, when they do, only support Israel for political reasons

 

[Sally]

I've eaten in kosher establishments. On particularly hot days, I've also walked into non-kosher establishments to have a Coke if there are no kosher places nearby. I can tell you that some non-kosher establishments have pungent smells that kosher places simply do not have.

I once bought kosher chicken to see if smelled better and looked better.

It did not. The best meat I have ever bought is USDA Organic chicken and grass-fed beef from Whole Foods.

Kosher meats look crappy.

I doubt if you go shopping. EDIT Moreover, if Kosher meats look crappy, maybe you can tell us why Muslims buy this "crappy looking" meat?

 

[Sally]

Kosher slaughter houses in the USA have of course been sited for their inhumane practases, filthy conditions, and abuse of workers. Just like any other slaughterhouse. They aren't special. Now go ahead and call it "anti-Semitism" to accuse kosher slaughterhouses and kosher meat of being no cleaner or healthier than non-kosher.

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

Thanks, Aris. It gives us a pretty good idea of why Muslims have no problem purchasing the meat from a Kosher butcher.

 

[aris2chat]

Rejected not thrown. Meat can be used by other non-kosher butchers or used to feed animals from zoos to pet food. Not for observant jewish consumption, not marked Kosher.

Yes, it is a business, but it is also a way of live and religion that is applied.
No not every butcher or plant is honest, but the majority are or they don't get certification.
Just because every piece of meat is USDA, do you think there is not someone who might be dishonest?
You learn to know and trust the merchants and manufacturers of products, and inspectors.
Kosher is a higher standard than USDA.
It is beyond being honesty to men, but being honestly to god.

>>Laws concerning business ethics are delineated in the major codes of Jewish law (e.g. Mishneh Torah, 12th century; Shulhan Arukh, particularly Choshen Mishpat, 16th century). A wide array of topics on business ethics are discussed in the responsa literature. Business ethics received special emphasis in the teaching of Rabbi Yisrael Lipkin Salanter (19th century), founder of the Musar movement in Eastern Europe. Enforcing laws regarding the proper treatment of workers in the food industry has been central to the efforts of Conservative Judaism's Hekhsher Tzedek commission and its 2008 approval of a responsum by Rabbi Jill Jacobs which required paying workers in accordance with Jewish law and treating workers with dignity and respect.<<@

The USDA inspector may reject an animal that the bodek permits, and vice versa, though the USDA always makes the final call on whether meat is safe to sell. According to Joe Regenstein, head of the Cornell Kosher and Halal Food Initiative, it's unclear what health implications—if any—the extra religious examination might have for consumers. (Regenstein also says there's no data showing that the cleansing, final-days diet used in some halal systems translates into health benefits for you and me.)

There is no kosher rule against feeding an animal crap, hormones, or other garbage.


"First of all, the rules for producing kosher meat don't specify how to raise the animals or what to feed them. So unless the label says otherwise, you're not likely to be getting the flesh of an animal reared on organic grasses"

Kosher animals must be healthy. If improper feed, treatment or illness contributes to unhealthy the animal is rejected. As to exact feed, I believe it traditional to feed both grass and grain. As to anything else, not in my interest. I'm sure kosher butchers trust the farmers they get the animals from.

 

[Sally]

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

You have a very naive idea that Kosher butchers would throw out meat that doesn't comply with kosher laws or toss animals if they violate Kashrut regulations.

Man, its a business. Profit is their motive. They are going to do everything they can to maximize profit.

Until I see evidence that there are large groups of auditors that go out and examine the integrity and thoroughness of Kosher-certified meat & poultry plants, I'm going to use my brain and assume the thumb is on the scale.

Listen, you have never worked in a Kosher processing plant, so you really should use your brain to stop making silly remarks. Until you get a job in one of these plants, you actually are no authority on what is going on. I would never tell you what is going on in a Halal processing plant because I have never been employed in one.

 

[Indeependent]

Have you done any research on Halal processing plants in the U.S. yet? If not, why not? Meanwhile, the Muslims are still going to Kosher meat markets so, unlike you, they have no problem with the Kosher meat.

Vic does not realize that if the animals suffers or when the lungs and organs are inspected the meat can be rejected as not kosher. Kosher goes beyond cleanliness, lack of cruelty, removing blood and certification. It is careful in picking the animals before killing, making sure there are no tears in the skin upon killing and that the health of the animals is examined internally as well. No sign of disease inside is permissible or the animal is rejected.

Thanks, Aris. It gives us a pretty good idea of why Muslims have no problem purchasing the meat from a Kosher butcher.

vic must be right, he spent 20 seconds doing research on Wikipedia.