Boy Scouts of America says discussing end to ban on gay members

[rightwinger]

Allowing local organizations to decide their own policies might be a good idea if the more liberal factions really allow it without pressure from the sissie lobby. It would be interesting to follow up on the incidences of pedophile behavior in more liberal areas.

For most gay rights issues I think that a patchwork of rights is unnacceptable. However, I support the Scouts resolving it this way
The Boy Scouts are different organizationally than other youth groups. A Little League team may be sponsored by a local Pizza joint who pays for their uniforms and gets a trophy at the end of the year. But scout groups belong to their sponsoring organization. If a Baptist Church sponsors a Boy Scout troop that troop serves as a youth organization of that church who executes a Boy Scout program.
As much as I support gay rights, I don't think you can force that Baptist church to accept gays in its youth organization

 

[oldfart]

This really isn't that big of a deal, all they are saying is they may allow individual troops to decide how to handle it, instead of having a national ban.

We have been through this before, when the BSA changed policy to allow women to be Scoutmasters. Back in the 20's and 30's there was a high level of virulent racism in Scouting (like the society in general) that had to be quietly discouraged. The fundamental dynamic is that BSA establishes policies which all Scouting units must adhere to and the sponsoring organizations require certain additional policies consistent with their beliefs (as long as they do not conflict with the BSA standards). So a Mormon-sponsored troop can decide that the Scoutmaster must be male and receive his position as a calling from the church.

Over the years I have been involved in most of the "evolving standards" of the BSA:
1. racial discrimination
2. religious bigotry
3. excess militarism; jingoism vs patriotism
4. child safety (predators)
5. child safety (lack of supervision and adherence to safety standards)
6. role of women as adult leaders
7. status of female youth members in Venture and Varsity Scouting programs
8. the Unitarian debacle
9. definition of "atheism" and religious tests for membership (most Buddhists, Taoists, Confucians, and a number of other established faiths are technically "atheist" in that they do not believe in personified gods, which are apparently the only ones a lot of Christians and Muslims consider, making the aforementioned groups and many Jews, native American practitioners, animists, etc. "heathens" and "atheists".
10. relationship to the World Scouting Movement

As the above should make clear, a Buddhist-sponsored troop which has no objection to homosexuality is not currently allowed to choose a gay Scoutmaster, regardless of the suitability of the person to the sponsoring organization. This is basically regarded as an indication of religious intolerance by most of the World Scouting Movement. Thus American Scouting is often felt to be in violation of the basic principles and values of the founders of Scouting. This is my opinion also. How long Scouting can survive in the United States as a captive of culture wars is an open question.

For the record, I have been a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer, and adult leader most of my life, and a Wood Badge Beaver; my two sons are Eagle Scouts and Vigil Members of the OA (as am I) and we have served on NOAC ICE staff for a number of years; my father was a Council President and with others established the largest annual Scouting event in the country and was a Silver Beaver back in the 50's; and I count as friends several members of the BSA National Committee and OA Committee. I have had the great privilege to know Tom Cochran and Bill Hillcourt and to have met E Urner Goodman.

And for all the Wood Badge folks, I try to follow Bill's admonition to "Never stop working your ticket!"

 

[kwc57]

This really isn't that big of a deal, all they are saying is they may allow individual troops to decide how to handle it, instead of having a national ban.

We have been through this before, when the BSA changed policy to allow women to be Scoutmasters. Back in the 20's and 30's there was a high level of virulent racism in Scouting (like the society in general) that had to be quietly discouraged. The fundamental dynamic is that BSA establishes policies which all Scouting units must adhere to and the sponsoring organizations require certain additional policies consistent with their beliefs (as long as they do not conflict with the BSA standards). So a Mormon-sponsored troop can decide that the Scoutmaster must be male and receive his position as a calling from the church.

Over the years I have been involved in most of the "evolving standards" of the BSA:
1. racial discrimination
2. religious bigotry
3. excess militarism; jingoism vs patriotism
4. child safety (predators)
5. child safety (lack of supervision and adherence to safety standards)
6. role of women as adult leaders
7. status of female youth members in Venture and Varsity Scouting programs
8. the Unitarian debacle
9. definition of "atheism" and religious tests for membership (most Buddhists, Taoists, Confucians, and a number of other established faiths are technically "atheist" in that they do not believe in personified gods, which are apparently the only ones a lot of Christians and Muslims consider, making the aforementioned groups and many Jews, native American practitioners, animists, etc. "heathens" and "atheists".
10. relationship to the World Scouting Movement

As the above should make clear, a Buddhist-sponsored troop which has no objection to homosexuality is not currently allowed to choose a gay Scoutmaster, regardless of the suitability of the person to the sponsoring organization. This is basically regarded as an indication of religious intolerance by most of the World Scouting Movement. Thus American Scouting is often felt to be in violation of the basic principles and values of the founders of Scouting. This is my opinion also. How long Scouting can survive in the United States as a captive of culture wars is an open question.

For the record, I have been a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer, and adult leader most of my life, and a Wood Badge Beaver; my two sons are Eagle Scouts and Vigil Members of the OA (as am I) and we have served on NOAC ICE staff for a number of years; my father was a Council President and with others established the largest annual Scouting event in the country and was a Silver Beaver back in the 50's; and I count as friends several members of the BSA National Committee and OA Committee. I have had the great privilege to know Tom Cochran and Bill Hillcourt and to have met E Urner Goodman.

And for all the Wood Badge folks, I try to follow Bill's admonition to "Never stop working your ticket!"

Small world. I used to be a Beaver and a good old Beaver too! Pack Committee Chair, Webelos Den Leader, Assistant Scoutmaster, 2005 and 2010 Jamboree ASM, OA Chapter Adviser, Wood Badge staffer (4), NYLT staffer and Course Director and currently OA Associate Lodge Adviser. District Award of Merit and Vigil. My son who is now aged out is an Eagle Scout and Vigil. I know gentlemen who were personal assistants to both Green Bar Bill and Goodman. Southern Region.

 

[shikaki]

Pedophiles who target boys are often married heterosexuals.

Gay pedophiles who target boys are still gay. Of course a gay man doesn't have to molest a boy himself. He could just explain to a boy how exciting and normal it is to respond to the advances of another boy .

Would you also object to a straight man explaining how exciting being sexually active with a girl is to a straight boy?

As an older Eagle Scout, I'm trying to understand why sexuality is even being discussed in the Boy Scouts? Have we really become that bored that we need to find any organization that doesn't have drama and introduce it. Gay or straight is irrelevant to scouting. It should not be discussed either way. Scouting is about survival, camping, tieing knots, etc. Scouting is also about helping boys grow into young productive, contributing citizens. There is no sexuality merit badge that I'm aware of... Best advice is to leave scouting as is and keep your sexual preference out of it. Is there really a reason that this needs to be an issue?

 

[shikaki]

The Scouts may have just gotten too big to survive as it is. They can have gay scouts and boy scouts. They already have all black boy scout troops and all latino boy scout troops. They can have all gay scout troops.

If sexuality in scouting is that big of a deal, that would be my preference to changing something that is already and has been working for over a hundred years.