BORN IN THE USA? Birth certificate issue No. 1 at Fox News
- Thread starter Brn2bfree
- Start date
vel, it was impossible for her to deliver obama in kenya and 4 days later be in honolulu, request and file for the exception for children born overseas to the health dept, have them approve all the paperwork and have obama's birth recorded at the health registrar on 8/8/61.....IMPOSSIBLE. game over....he was born in hawaii.
Ravi
Diamond Member
Yep. This was an immaculate conception, remember...I'm sure Mary had some inkling of what the future held for her son and so too did Obamamom.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Simply wrong, A State law can NOT supersede a Federal Law. The right to citizenship is a FEDERAL law. No State can refuse to register a birth because of a State Law in direct opposition to a Federal Law.
States do not get to determine Federal US Citizenship, EVER. The Federal Government establishes that criteria and the States MUST obey it. Or do I need to cite the relevant portion of the US Constitution that States State law is subservient to Federal Law?
Further the State law is probably the old Territory law establishing Territory citizenship. Again not US Citizenship.
Cite Federal law that supports your claim. State law is not relevant at all.
States do not get to determine Federal US Citizenship, EVER. The Federal Government establishes that criteria and the States MUST obey it. Or do I need to cite the relevant portion of the US Constitution that States State law is subservient to Federal Law?
Further the State law is probably the old Territory law establishing Territory citizenship. Again not US Citizenship.
Cite Federal law that supports your claim. State law is not relevant at all.
Let's say, I am a Natural born us citizen who is pregnant, I am married to a US National, we go on vacation overseas, and i prematurely deliver my child over seas....are these people really saying that my child would NOT be a natural born citizen under those conditions and there is no exception??? While if I went overseas and adopted a child from overseas and brought him home, my adopted child would be considered a natural born citizen of the united states?
What makes mccain a natural born citizen? Certainly not the constitution's definition of a natural born citizen...that has to be noted. It was rules and regs that were instituted AFTER the constitution....
If mrs obama was a usa citizen and wanted to return back to her home in America but the Kenyan Government STOPPED her from returning home to deliver her baby because she was too far along in pregnancy, as you all have contended, don't you THINK that there would be a measure of relief for a Mrs OBama to have her child noted as a natural born citizen if she got home as soon as she was allowed to by the Kenyan govt?
I do.
I don't think our constitution and the rules and regs on natural born citizens are meant to punish pregnant American citizens with child .....that are on vacation, that happen to be forced to deliver over there.....
REGARDLESS it was impossible for mrs obama to make it to the usa from Kenya in 4 days or less, file all the legal paperwork, get all the paperwork approved by the health dept for them to file it with the registrars office by august 8....
What makes mccain a natural born citizen? Certainly not the constitution's definition of a natural born citizen...that has to be noted. It was rules and regs that were instituted AFTER the constitution....
If mrs obama was a usa citizen and wanted to return back to her home in America but the Kenyan Government STOPPED her from returning home to deliver her baby because she was too far along in pregnancy, as you all have contended, don't you THINK that there would be a measure of relief for a Mrs OBama to have her child noted as a natural born citizen if she got home as soon as she was allowed to by the Kenyan govt?
I do.
I don't think our constitution and the rules and regs on natural born citizens are meant to punish pregnant American citizens with child .....that are on vacation, that happen to be forced to deliver over there.....
REGARDLESS it was impossible for mrs obama to make it to the usa from Kenya in 4 days or less, file all the legal paperwork, get all the paperwork approved by the health dept for them to file it with the registrars office by august 8....
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
It does not matter anyway, as even if he were born in Kenya he would still be a NATURAL Born Citizen. He was born to an American Citizen. That alone grants citizenship. No matter where the birth occurs.
But the conspiracy that they knew to register him in Hawaii cause some day it would matter is hilarious indeed. Also the one where the Governor and Lt. Governor, both Republicans that supported McCain would help protect Obama in his cover up is even Funnier.
HUGGY
I Post Because I Care
The GOP's do-nothingness is preferable
Not according to the last election Gunny. MOST americans wanted this change.
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i know rgs, i was just playing along with their speculations and trying to ''reason'' with them on why they are just hot air.... to me it's fun, to a degree!
Care.. You BELIEVE it impossible. That would be your OPINION. Being your OPNION doesn't make something FACT. I told you in an earlier post, we'll just have to disagree on this issue. Unless Obama decides to actually show his Certificate of Live Birth ( As opposed to his Certification of Live Birth ) then I'll never be able to prove my theory to you and you'll never convince me of the legitamacy of someone that has spent millions of dollars in order to hide whatever that birth certificate shows. In truth it makes very little difference. Even if you were to prove that Obama is a natural born citizen, it still wouldn't make me think that he was qualified for POTUS.
So, tell you what, you can continue to question my intelligence because I won't take Obama's word , and I'll continue to feel that you are incredibly naive in the fact that you can see this man spending millions to hide something and still not question it. And the world will continue to spin.
One thing though, I read your next post. Please understand, laws change. You are still trying to apply 2009 laws to events in 1961. I gave you a link in an earlier post to a history page that tells you what laws were in effect at different time periods. You appear so fixated on the ability to pass citizenship to a child that you seem to overlook the fact that we've had periods in our history where it was not automatic as it is today. Furthermore, a foreign national that holds a U.S. visa is NOT able to confer U.S. citizenship to their child born in their native country. ( to simplify.. Obama Sr.'s status didn't mean squat in determining if Barack is a U.S. citizen. )
ScreamingEagle
Gold Member
- Jul 5, 2004
- 13,399
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Why is Obama NOT producing a hospital-generated original birth certificate that truely proves he was born in Hawaii? Or is he an exempt elitist? Or could it mean we have an ILLEGAL ALIEN in the office of President.....?
If Obama was born in Mombassa - where his step-grandmother claims to have witnessed his birth - his mother would not have been old enough to confer U.S. citizenship upon him...and that would mean that he was actually a British subject at birth....
It would also be nice to clarify what kind of passport he traveled on to Pakistan at the age of 20....did he go on an Idonesian passport, a Kenyan passport, or a British one....???
WHY have all of Obama's records disappeared or been sealed?
....inquiring minds want to know...
If Obama was born in Mombassa - where his step-grandmother claims to have witnessed his birth - his mother would not have been old enough to confer U.S. citizenship upon him...and that would mean that he was actually a British subject at birth....
It would also be nice to clarify what kind of passport he traveled on to Pakistan at the age of 20....did he go on an Idonesian passport, a Kenyan passport, or a British one....???
WHY have all of Obama's records disappeared or been sealed?
....inquiring minds want to know...
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This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro.
Photo from AP Photo - News, photos, topics, and quotes
In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim.
Was young Obama Indonesian citizen?
The Fourteenth Amendment does not provide any procedure for loss of United States citizenship. Under the Supreme Court precedent of Afroyim v. Rusk, loss of U.S. citizenship is possible only under the following circumstances:[9]
Fraud in the naturalization process. Technically this is not loss of citizenship, but rather a voiding of the purported naturalization and a declaration that the immigrant never was a U.S. citizen.
Voluntary relinquishment of citizenship. This may be accomplished either through renunciation procedures specially established by the State Department or through other actions (e.g., treason) which demonstrate an intention to give up U.S. citizenship.[10] Such an act of expatriation must be accompanied by an intent to terminate American citizenship.[11]
Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Wong Kim Ark the Supreme Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, a man born within the United States to foreigners (in that case, Chinese citizens) who were lawfully residing in the United States and who were not employed in a diplomatic or other official capacity by a foreign power, was a citizen of the United States.
Under these two rulings, the following persons born in the United States are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, and thus do not qualify for automatic citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment:
Children born to foreign diplomats
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
Children born to Native Americans who are members of tribes not taxed (These were later given full citizenship by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.)
The following persons born in the United States are explicitly citizens:
Children born to U.S. citizens
Children born to aliens who are lawfully inside the United States (resident or visitor), with the intention of amicably interacting with its people and obeying its laws
The Court in Wong Kim Ark did not explicitly decide whether U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" (it was not necessary to answer this question since Wong Kim Ark's parents were legally present in the United States at the time of his birth).
The question is is Barack Obama a U.S. Citizen? while he may be a Natural born Citizen, is he a U.S. Citizen and does the fact that he was listed once as being an Indonesian citizen disqualify him to be President? Interesting debate, however I think is more or less pointless, because even it were to be found the case would he be removed from office at this point?
Photo from AP Photo - News, photos, topics, and quotes
In the picture, Obama is registered under the name Barry Soetoro by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. The school card lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii. His religion is listed as Muslim.
Was young Obama Indonesian citizen?
The Fourteenth Amendment does not provide any procedure for loss of United States citizenship. Under the Supreme Court precedent of Afroyim v. Rusk, loss of U.S. citizenship is possible only under the following circumstances:[9]
Fraud in the naturalization process. Technically this is not loss of citizenship, but rather a voiding of the purported naturalization and a declaration that the immigrant never was a U.S. citizen.
Voluntary relinquishment of citizenship. This may be accomplished either through renunciation procedures specially established by the State Department or through other actions (e.g., treason) which demonstrate an intention to give up U.S. citizenship.[10] Such an act of expatriation must be accompanied by an intent to terminate American citizenship.[11]
Citizenship Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Wong Kim Ark the Supreme Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, a man born within the United States to foreigners (in that case, Chinese citizens) who were lawfully residing in the United States and who were not employed in a diplomatic or other official capacity by a foreign power, was a citizen of the United States.
Under these two rulings, the following persons born in the United States are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, and thus do not qualify for automatic citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment:
Children born to foreign diplomats
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
Children born to Native Americans who are members of tribes not taxed (These were later given full citizenship by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.)
The following persons born in the United States are explicitly citizens:
Children born to U.S. citizens
Children born to aliens who are lawfully inside the United States (resident or visitor), with the intention of amicably interacting with its people and obeying its laws
The Court in Wong Kim Ark did not explicitly decide whether U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" (it was not necessary to answer this question since Wong Kim Ark's parents were legally present in the United States at the time of his birth).
The question is is Barack Obama a U.S. Citizen? while he may be a Natural born Citizen, is he a U.S. Citizen and does the fact that he was listed once as being an Indonesian citizen disqualify him to be President? Interesting debate, however I think is more or less pointless, because even it were to be found the case would he be removed from office at this point?
Why not do some real detective work, go to kenya, interview those that would have been present, and record the interviews with translation present, then go to the kenyan hospital they say he was born at, and search kenyan records for his birth....find the doctor that supposedly delivered him...
go to usa records, see if his mother traveled to kenya while pregnant, and near obama's birth...check the division of vital records that would show their reentry in to the USA....check the records of the american embassy in kenya, see if it was truly reported that his mother tried to get home, but was stopped by the kenyan govt....check the kenyan gvt records or the airline records of the time to see if there is any legitimate record of this incident....there is just SOOOOOOOO MUCH that could be done to try to verify the 5 DIFFERENT Stories now of why obama's notorized certificate of birth, stating hawaii as his birth place has to be a fraud.....
sheesh....you all are sending this idiot a ton of money to get the birth certificate...., why wouldn't it be spent on finding out the truth, through being a gumshoe, a real sleuth of an investigator???? i guess it really isn't as important to get to the truth, as it is to keep this issue alive....gees louise, talk about a bunch of people that think things should just be handed to them, when there is no legitimate reason to do such....
FIND your legitimate reason, find some real proof instead of hearsay, then maybe all of the cases brought to court wouldn't be continually thrown out!
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on his original birth certificate stating honolulu as his birth place and the hospital born at will help you....with anything you can't do now....go to the hospital and search hospital births in honolulu on obama's birth date....why wouldn't you just do that now....there couldn't be more than 10 to 20 babies born that day of which half would be female....not much sleuthing to do....
maybe i have read too many mystery and female sleuth novels along with ''who done it'' novels than the rest of you, but if i had the means....as this lawyer does, i'd be doing some REAL investigating, digging up REAL EVIDENCE to support my case instead of what amounts to slander or close to it, at this point?
maybe even speak to the individual Notary that notarized the certificate of birth, verifying it matched the original?
care
go to usa records, see if his mother traveled to kenya while pregnant, and near obama's birth...check the division of vital records that would show their reentry in to the USA....check the records of the american embassy in kenya, see if it was truly reported that his mother tried to get home, but was stopped by the kenyan govt....check the kenyan gvt records or the airline records of the time to see if there is any legitimate record of this incident....there is just SOOOOOOOO MUCH that could be done to try to verify the 5 DIFFERENT Stories now of why obama's notorized certificate of birth, stating hawaii as his birth place has to be a fraud.....
sheesh....you all are sending this idiot a ton of money to get the birth certificate...., why wouldn't it be spent on finding out the truth, through being a gumshoe, a real sleuth of an investigator???? i guess it really isn't as important to get to the truth, as it is to keep this issue alive....gees louise, talk about a bunch of people that think things should just be handed to them, when there is no legitimate reason to do such....
FIND your legitimate reason, find some real proof instead of hearsay, then maybe all of the cases brought to court wouldn't be continually thrown out!
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on his original birth certificate stating honolulu as his birth place and the hospital born at will help you....with anything you can't do now....go to the hospital and search hospital births in honolulu on obama's birth date....why wouldn't you just do that now....there couldn't be more than 10 to 20 babies born that day of which half would be female....not much sleuthing to do....
maybe i have read too many mystery and female sleuth novels along with ''who done it'' novels than the rest of you, but if i had the means....as this lawyer does, i'd be doing some REAL investigating, digging up REAL EVIDENCE to support my case instead of what amounts to slander or close to it, at this point?
maybe even speak to the individual Notary that notarized the certificate of birth, verifying it matched the original?
care
You would think Care, it would be a simple matter of dispatching one of your numerous underlings to dispense with this. I personally don't see why it is that much of an issue with President Obama and seems to be an easily resovable one and one that would make all those talking about look bad if he just up and produced it. No matter, he is in office and my posts were simply to stimulate debate on the question of citizenship as it relates to the Presidency once a person has become a citizen of another country, which is fairly clear from the AP that he was. Is it that once he returned to the US he was automatically a citizen again, or would have to re-apply for citizenship and would that disqualify him to be president. I do see your point though.
Annie
Diamond Member
- Nov 22, 2003
- 50,848
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One more time, I'll say as a conservative, I don't think the issue of religion is pertinent. I don't think Obama is a Muslim or a Christian, he may or may not be a Black nationalist, but I don't think even that is influential. He's not religious, he's narcissistic. He worships himself and what he sees as his great accomplishments.
Until becoming POTUS, most of us would disagree with his self-assessment, but that is of no concern.
I think the birth certificate thing is way past the dead horse stage, those that persist are beating the long calcified dinosaurs. It's moot. If he isn't a natural born, which I think his mom made him, he won. It's the one time I agree with him and Congress, regardless of make up isn't going there. Get over it.
Until becoming POTUS, most of us would disagree with his self-assessment, but that is of no concern.
I think the birth certificate thing is way past the dead horse stage, those that persist are beating the long calcified dinosaurs. It's moot. If he isn't a natural born, which I think his mom made him, he won. It's the one time I agree with him and Congress, regardless of make up isn't going there. Get over it.
and to add to that, the Constitution doesn't have a religious test for any public office
so i don't care if he's a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Mormon, Hindu, Shinto, agnostic, or atheist.
its not a relevant issue
NO!bama08
Senior Member
- Sep 13, 2008
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"2. The "right" is not innocent, they have done their share of "destroying the country" ... so step aside for whom?"
If you think George Bush was "right" you're way off. He was just another liberal. Everything since Ronald Regan has been liberal. That's the whole problem. You libs thought you were voting the opposite direction from GB but you went in the same direction, only 10 times worse.
If you think George Bush was "right" you're way off. He was just another liberal. Everything since Ronald Regan has been liberal. That's the whole problem. You libs thought you were voting the opposite direction from GB but you went in the same direction, only 10 times worse.
Political Junky
Gold Member
- May 27, 2009
- 25,793
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The wingnut holocaust denier who killed a guard today, is a "Birther". You must be so proud.
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