Boeing, unions, and the right to work

[bripat9643]

uhhhhh, seriously Bripat? You don't think some private sector workers ever go out and smoke a dooby? What the heck? You take only 2 pot smokers from a union that you saw in a video, and you label and tag ALL union members as being like them?

Does anyone around here use their own God given power to reason and think on their own anymore?

Non-unionized employees would never get away with it. You think an employer isn't going to notice when his workers return from lunch stoned or drunk? If they are in a union, they can't be fired. If not, the employer will put them on notice, and the second offense will get them canned.

 

[Wiseacre]

There is something unhealthy and disreputable about union power and their influence over the democratic party. Both public and private, the way the Obama Admin and the dems are bending over backwards to serve the interests of the unions over the interests of the country as a whole presents an image of favoritism to their constituents. I suppose everyone has their own opinion of where the line is for what's acceptable and what's not, but when the gov't steps in to challenge a compnay's right to build a factory anywhere they want to, well that's too far IMHO.

Not that I wouldn't say the GOP are innocent in this regard, they pander to special interests too. But not to the degree the Dems do for the unions, IMHO anyway.

 

[The T]

There is something unhealthy and disreputable about union power and their influence over the democratic party. Both public and private, the way the Obama Admin and the dems are bending over backwards to serve the interests of the unions over the interests of the country as a whole presents an image of favoritism to their constituents. I suppose everyone has their own opinion of where the line is for what's acceptable and what's not, but when the gov't steps in to challenge a compnay's right to build a factory anywhere they want to, well that's too far IMHO.

Not that I wouldn't say the GOP are innocent in this regard, they pander to special interests too. But not to the degree the Dems do for the unions, IMHO anyway.

It's a money-laundering scheme. It's that simple.

 

[code1211]

Yes. I asked about jobs being sent overseas and across the border and you tried to change the subject.

We already know why the RTW states are growing faster in jobs. It's obvious that many companies choose to relocate to states where the average wages are far less due to poverty and education. People there are used to being exploited.

Now....please explain how Unions are the reason we can't compete with third world nations or just ignore the question.
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Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay to get it.

Given the same relative value of two choices, the buyer will buy the same quality at the reduced price.

If the labor to produce an airplane costs less in South Carolina than it does in Washington state, the buyer (employer) will buy it there.

The same is true of Taiwan, China, Korea, Japan or anywhere else.

Unions inflate the rate of pay to each worker artificially.

If the unions were a legitimate workforce enhancer, they would be striving to increase the value of the work performed to match the value of the wages paid. Even higher wages paid to each individual could result in a lower cost of labor if the procuctivity is increased sufficiently.

Unions do the exact revers of this. They intentionally maintain or reduce the amount of work remitted for the wages paid to increase or maintain thier membership.

This devalues the work performed and enhances the value of work performed by workers who are not Union members. Non-Union workers can be in foreign countries or can be in other states.

If the work performed is the same and the cost is less, what's the mystery to any thinking individual?

Does this clear it up for you?

Ok....so what you're saying is that, in order to compete, we must lower our standard of living to that of Mexico, right?

.

What I said was that buyers will seek the greatest value. It is you who said that we must lower our standard of living to that of Mexico.

What if we were able to be more productive than our international competitors to the extent that we could maintain the individual pay rates but, through enhanced productivity, would lower the total cost of the labor needed to produce the finished product?

Here in Indianapolis, there was a facility that employed 350 union employees at a distribution center. The union had established a bench mark of productivity. The workers there were able to accomplish that bench mark of productivity for a full day in 5 hours.

The next three hours worked each day were worked, in accordance with the union contract, to equal 8 hours worked, but paid to equal 11 hours worked. The employee was paid for forty hours for the 25 it took to reach the bench mark and then overtime was paid on the last 15.

The employee in this ridiculaous arrangement worked forty hours and was paid as if he had worked 65. Forty at straight time and 15 at overtime.

The operation closed and everybody working there is now out of work. The jobs are still being done and the parts are still being shipped, but they ship from a Tennessee address rather than an Indiana address.

Are the workers in Tennessee working 40 and paid for 40 better off or worse off than the employees in Indiana working 0 and paid for 0? Which group is closer to your vision of the Mexico standard of living?

 

[The T]

uhhhhh, seriously Bripat? You don't think some private sector workers ever go out and smoke a dooby? What the heck? You take only 2 pot smokers from a union that you saw in a video, and you label and tag ALL union members as being like them?

Does anyone around here use their own God given power to reason and think on their own anymore?

Non-unionized employees would never get away with it. You think an employer isn't going to notice when his workers return from lunch stoned or drunk? If they are in a union, they can't be fired. If not, the employer will put them on notice, and the second offense will get them canned.

*As it should be*.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay to get it.

Given the same relative value of two choices, the buyer will buy the same quality at the reduced price.

If the labor to produce an airplane costs less in South Carolina than it does in Washington state, the buyer (employer) will buy it there.

The same is true of Taiwan, China, Korea, Japan or anywhere else.

Unions inflate the rate of pay to each worker artificially.

If the unions were a legitimate workforce enhancer, they would be striving to increase the value of the work performed to match the value of the wages paid. Even higher wages paid to each individual could result in a lower cost of labor if the procuctivity is increased sufficiently.

Unions do the exact revers of this. They intentionally maintain or reduce the amount of work remitted for the wages paid to increase or maintain thier membership.

This devalues the work performed and enhances the value of work performed by workers who are not Union members. Non-Union workers can be in foreign countries or can be in other states.

If the work performed is the same and the cost is less, what's the mystery to any thinking individual?

Does this clear it up for you?

Ok....so what you're saying is that, in order to compete, we must lower our standard of living to that of Mexico, right?

.

That's exactly what they're saying.

But not for them personally of course, only for others.

"Prosperity through lower wages" should be their campaign slogan.

The problem is, 85% of us prosper without having to join a club and strong arm employers into paying us well. That pretty much tells us where the union folks are.... not all that employable without the club membership.

 

[The T]

Ok....so what you're saying is that, in order to compete, we must lower our standard of living to that of Mexico, right?

.

That's exactly what they're saying.

But not for them personally of course, only for others.

"Prosperity through lower wages" should be their campaign slogan.

The problem is, 85% of us prosper without having to join a club and strong arm employers into paying us well. That pretty much tells us where the union folks are.... not all that employable without the club membership.

Indeed. Some of us know our craft and show it by doing it for the betterment of embellishing our employers with profit by our works...to which MOST employers share with us through sharing back with profit sharing...

AND if some of you don't work for such an employer? Time to look...and good luck...get IN before Government takes them out.

MOST of us don't need a Union GOON to speak for us...

 

[Care4all]

uhhhhh, seriously Bripat? You don't think some private sector workers ever go out and smoke a dooby? What the heck? You take only 2 pot smokers from a union that you saw in a video, and you label and tag ALL union members as being like them?

Does anyone around here use their own God given power to reason and think on their own anymore?

Non-unionized employees would never get away with it. You think an employer isn't going to notice when his workers return from lunch stoned or drunk? If they are in a union, they can't be fired. If not, the employer will put them on notice, and the second offense will get them canned.

now that's a crock of poop...i worked for a corporation where all of senior management was snorting cocaine.....it took 2 years before a few of them, and not all of them, were let go... i worked at another corp where the President was 'doing' his married secretary....she got pregnant, he was supposedly a happily married family man....they never fired him....they gave him a raise and sent him and his fam to another division.... and i worked for another corp that never fired you for drug or alcohol abuse....they paid for and put you in to rehab.....

BTW, the guys caught on the video tape smoking on lunch break, WERE FIRED.

Here is a link to the google on it....you choose what site you want to go in to, to verify they were fired.

pot smoking union members - Google Search

 

[DaGoose]

uhhhhh, seriously Bripat? You don't think some private sector workers ever go out and smoke a dooby? What the heck? You take only 2 pot smokers from a union that you saw in a video, and you label and tag ALL union members as being like them?

Does anyone around here use their own God given power to reason and think on their own anymore?

Non-unionized employees would never get away with it. You think an employer isn't going to notice when his workers return from lunch stoned or drunk? If they are in a union, they can't be fired. If not, the employer will put them on notice, and the second offense will get them canned.

As Reagan said, "There you go again". You were once briefly a member of the Carpenter's Union and that makers you expert enough to coment on ALL Unions? You truly are a wonder.

First of all, there MAY be a few Locals where you MIGHT get away with being drunk on the job ONE TIME. But they are few and far between, my friend.

We had a guy with 32 years of service come into work stoned last year. He was fired on the spot (after a brief trip to the ER to determine why he was acting so goofy). He appealed to the Union to pay to arbitrate his case and my Union said, "No. You put your co-workers lives at risk. We cannot and will not defend your actions".

So as you can see you're wrong as usual. But that happens when you get all your information from FOX and Limbaugh.

Apology accepted.

.

 

[initforme]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

 

[DaGoose]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

 

[The T]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

*NO* we haven't...LAWS are in place now to protect workers...UNIONS take it too FAR...and want MORE than they're entitled to, and have made a PACT with the DEVIL gubmint they used to be AGAINST...

 

[Mr Natural]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

Not all people.

Just the stupid, easily duped ones.

 

[rdean]

When did mental wards get internet connections?

Say what you want, but the only Republican policies that work to build up anything are ones promoting the military. And look, it took only a few dozen to get Bin Laden.
Seriously, what Republican policies are aimed at building or creating anything?

I'm begging. Someone name something good to come out of a Republican policy in the last 10 years.

And they attack everything American. Even unions.

The role of the government is not one that builds anything. The role of the government is to provide a condition in which the free enterprise of its citizens can build things.

A better way to look at this is to ask what has Liberal policy built up? Huge debt? The debt is around 13+Trillion. 3+ Trillion of that from that last 2 years. 23.0% of the debt accrued during the last 0.9% of the life of the Republic.

If the debt had been built up at that rate during the previous 220 years of the Republic, our debt would be $1,443,000,000,000. For the math challenged like me, that is 1 quadrillion, four hundred foty three trillion. The actual debt built up from the previous 220 years is a rounding error in this scenario.

You just gotta be impressed by that.

The only problem is that debt was built by Republicans.

In fact, right wingers don't even know what the role of government is, which is why they want to tear it down.

And still, when given the chance, you couldn't name a single right wing accomplishment. Well, don't feel bad, I couldn't either.

 

[The T]

Say what you want, but the only Republican policies that work to build up anything are ones promoting the military. And look, it took only a few dozen to get Bin Laden.
Seriously, what Republican policies are aimed at building or creating anything?

I'm begging. Someone name something good to come out of a Republican policy in the last 10 years.

And they attack everything American. Even unions.

The role of the government is not one that builds anything. The role of the government is to provide a condition in which the free enterprise of its citizens can build things.

A better way to look at this is to ask what has Liberal policy built up? Huge debt? The debt is around 13+Trillion. 3+ Trillion of that from that last 2 years. 23.0% of the debt accrued during the last 0.9% of the life of the Republic.

If the debt had been built up at that rate during the previous 220 years of the Republic, our debt would be $1,443,000,000,000. For the math challenged like me, that is 1 quadrillion, four hundred foty three trillion. The actual debt built up from the previous 220 years is a rounding error in this scenario.

You just gotta be impressed by that.

The only problem is that debt was built by Republicans.

In fact, right wingers don't even know what the role of government is, which is why they want to tear it down.

And still, when given the chance, you couldn't name a single right wing accomplishment. Well, don't feel bad, I couldn't either.

Deany? YOU have gone OFF the deep end...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

Have being the operative word and proper tense. Currently, they do nothing for anyone not a member of the club and contribute nothing to society.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The role of the government is not one that builds anything. The role of the government is to provide a condition in which the free enterprise of its citizens can build things.

A better way to look at this is to ask what has Liberal policy built up? Huge debt? The debt is around 13+Trillion. 3+ Trillion of that from that last 2 years. 23.0% of the debt accrued during the last 0.9% of the life of the Republic.

If the debt had been built up at that rate during the previous 220 years of the Republic, our debt would be $1,443,000,000,000. For the math challenged like me, that is 1 quadrillion, four hundred foty three trillion. The actual debt built up from the previous 220 years is a rounding error in this scenario.

You just gotta be impressed by that.

The only problem is that debt was built by Republicans.

In fact, right wingers don't even know what the role of government is, which is why they want to tear it down.

And still, when given the chance, you couldn't name a single right wing accomplishment. Well, don't feel bad, I couldn't either.

Deany? YOU have gone OFF the deep end...

It was a very short trip.

 

[The T]

The only problem is that debt was built by Republicans.

In fact, right wingers don't even know what the role of government is, which is why they want to tear it down.

And still, when given the chance, you couldn't name a single right wing accomplishment. Well, don't feel bad, I couldn't either.

Deany? YOU have gone OFF the deep end...

It was a very short trip.

Long walk off a very short pier short...

 

[The T]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

Have being the operative word and proper tense. Currently, they do nothing for anyone not a member of the club and contribute nothing to society.

But rather now the UNIONS have become the takers...and takers to things they are NOT entitled to at the expense of the TAXPAYERS...and WE were sick of it...

 

[DaGoose]

It's all a growing effort on this once great nation to get rid of all the unions...then the workers will be looking at big time pay cuts. Thats right. I GUARANTEE that once all the unions are gone that the average wage in this country goes down by at least, at least 25 percent......without any reprocussions. And the sheeple will stand for it and work harder for less. They cant figure it out.

People forget how much Unions have done for ALL workers.

.

*NO* we haven't...LAWS are in place now to protect workers...UNIONS take it too FAR...and want MORE than they're entitled to, and have made a PACT with the DEVIL gubmint they used to be AGAINST...

*YES* you have. Unions are largely responsible for those laws and benefits that you enjoy.

.