Blinded by the Light

[CrusaderFrank]

What are we measuring? ... you didn't answer ...

The variance in TSI compared to the imaginary increase in CO2 that is supposedly causing manmade global climate warming change

 

[Stryder50]

No legitimate theory on climate change can be taken seriously without taking into account the Sun!


The Sun is the source, and the ocean is the battery, the main repository of solar energy upon which all weather and climate is driven.


Obviously, the problem here is that while the scientists are fact-driven, our media and politicians are /politically/ driven.

Sort of ...

To many scientists are funding driven, not fact driven. They can be bought to support the AGW/ACC agenda. Manipulation of data and it's processing = conclusions can be tweaked to satisfy their pay masters.

 

[Sunsettommy]

The variance in TSI compared to the imaginary increase in CO2 that is supposedly causing manmade global climate warming change

What is commonly overlooked are the bandwidth changes of the sun over time, TSI doesn't show it which is why it can be misleading to what the sun is doing to the atmosphere and planetary waters.

 

[ReinyDays]

The variance in TSI compared to the imaginary increase in CO2 that is supposedly causing manmade global climate warming change

There would be none ... why would Earth's atmosphere effect solar output? ...

But I'll bite ... what is that variance and what math formula are you using? ...

 

[ReinyDays]

What is commonly overlooked are the bandwidth changes of the sun over time, TSI doesn't show it which is why it can be misleading to what the sun is doing to the atmosphere and planetary waters.

Bandwidth changes can only occur with a change in temperature ... and temperature depends strictly on mass ... Billy-Bob didn't explain the science, did he? ... ask him if he knows what Blackbody radiation is and how Wein's Law describes the bandwidths ... that was the remark about the color green ... only the Sun is hot enough to produce this wavelength in nature ... if the Sun loses this green color, there will be no green on our environment ...

Your math is wrong ... simple as that ...

Hertzsprung–Russell diagram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There would be none ... why would Earth's atmosphere effect solar output? ...

But I'll bite ... what is that variance and what math formula are you using? ...

Just show us one time in a lab how a .012% increase in an atmospheric trace element can “raise temperature”

 

[ReinyDays]

Just show us one time in a lab how a .012% increase in an atmospheric trace element can “raise temperature”

The atmosphere has no effect on the Sun ...

Total Solar Irradiation is a new term, this is usually presented as j* in scientific literature ... if you'd read the HR diagram article, you'd understand what we're measuring here better ...

Mass and mass alone ... and the Sun isn't changing mass ...

=====

One photon, one molecule ... no, there's not enough molecules of CO2 to effect temperature in our atmosphere ... why do you ask? ...

 

[Sunsettommy]

What an

The atmosphere has no effect on the Sun ...

Total Solar Irradiation is a new term, this is usually presented as j* in scientific literature ... if you'd read the HR diagram article, you'd understand what we're measuring here better ...

Mass and mass alone ... and the Sun isn't changing mass ...

=====

One photon, one molecule ... no, there's not enough molecules of CO2 to effect temperature in our atmosphere ... why do you ask? ...

ignorant statement you make the Sun is losing mass all the time, have your studied stellar evolution of stars were losing mass is the dominant factor in their aging process, have you read about the "solar wind" that carries charged particles and more into the solar system that is mass being converted into energy that is then sent away into interstellar space.

Have you bothered to study stars that become part called Planetary nebulas with the star in the center shedding mass due to increased radiation outflow then making it appear as a glow by the radiation of the central star, look up the Ring Nebula or the Dumbbell nebula and more.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Bandwidth changes can only occur with a change in temperature ... and temperature depends strictly on mass ... Billy-Bob didn't explain the science, did he? ... ask him if he knows what Blackbody radiation is and how Wein's Law describes the bandwidths ... that was the remark about the color green ... only the Sun is hot enough to produce this wavelength in nature ... if the Sun loses this green color, there will be no green on our environment ...

Your math is wrong ... simple as that ...

Hertzsprung–Russell diagram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anther stupid statement showing how overrated you are as the resident snob, Billy_Bob has a PHD in Physics you asshole! He posted charts at my forum showing the changes in wavelength based on published science research.

Long-term changes in solar activity and irradiance​

The variability strongly depends on the wavelength, growing considerably towards the UV part of the spectrum (Rottman, 1988, Floyd et al., 2003). The solar radiative energy flux per unit wavelength or within a given spectral interval is called spectral solar irradiance (SSI). SSI has also been monitored over roughly the same period, although with significant gaps in the wavelength and temporal coverage (Ermolli et al., 2013, DeLand et al., 2019, Woods et al., 2021 and references therein). While the longwave (mainly visible and infrared, but also parts of UV above 320 nm) radiation penetrates down to the lower layers of the atmosphere and the surface, heating these directly, the UV irradiance heats the upper and middle terrestrial atmosphere and plays a critical role in chemical processes there. The signal penetrates down to the lower layers through dynamical coupling mechanisms (Haigh, 1994, Haigh, 2007, Gray et al., 2010).

Not only solar radiation can influence the terrestrial atmosphere and climate. Also SEPs affect the ionisation state and thus the chemical processes in the upper and middle atmosphere (see, e.g., the reviews by Sinnhuber et al., 2012, Sinnhuber and Funke, 2020, Mironova et al., 2015 and references therein). Furthermore, yet more energetic GCR particles can penetrate down to the lower layers of the atmosphere (lower stratosphere and the troposphere). Although the link between the GCR-caused ionisation of the lower atmosphere and cloud formation has been speculated it has not been confirmed (Kulmala et al., 2010, Laken et al., 2009, Pierce and Adams, 2009, Laken et al., 2012, Čalogović et al., 2010), while results from the Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets (CLOUD) experiment in CERN (Dunne et al., 2016, Pierce, 2017) suggest that GCRs do not have any appreciable effect on cloud formation. The GCR flux at Earth is modulated by the solar magnetic field, being weaker at higher activity, in contrast to the flux of energetic particles originating from the Sun itself.

LINK

 

[toobfreak]

Bandwidth changes can only occur with a change in temperature ... and temperature depends strictly on mass ...

For the most part. Naturally, the spectral/luminosity classification of any star (OBAFGKM) is a function of spectral color driven mostly by mass/core temperature, so long as a star does not deviate from the main sequence of stellar evolution, which our Sun has not as a slightly variable pulsating yellow dwarf. But spectral output can also be compositionally affected in both early and latter stages.

To our benefit, one of the reasons why we are here is because of the Sun's long term stability.

 

[ReinyDays]

For the most part. Naturally, the spectral/luminosity classification of any star (OBAFGKM) is a function of spectral color driven mostly by mass/core temperature, so long as a star does not deviate from the main sequence of stellar evolution, which our Sun has not as a slightly variable pulsating yellow dwarf. But spectral output can also be compositionally affected in both early and latter stages.

To our benefit, one of the reasons why we are here is because of the Sun's long term stability.

Since we're only measuring temperature to the nearest whole degree ... we're safe using irradiation to the nearest 10 W/m^2 ... using Stefan-Boltzmann ...

The Sun's surface is ≈ 5,500ºC ... for a peak energy wavelength of 502 nm ... that doesn't change enough to make a measurable difference here on Earth's surface ... that's green light, the light plants reflect into our eyes ... and plants are the same green they've always been ...

 

[toobfreak]

Since we're only measuring temperature to the nearest whole degree ... we're safe using irradiation to the nearest 10 W/m^2 ... using Stefan-Boltzmann ...The Sun's surface is ≈ 5,500ºC ... for a peak energy wavelength of 502 nm ... that doesn't change enough to make a measurable difference here on Earth's surface ... that's green light, the light plants reflect into our eyes ... and plants are the same green they've always been ...

True, there are variations in solar output that occur over millions and billions of years, but not so much over centuries thankfully, due partly to the slowly increasing distance of the Moon from the Earth plus the slowing of Earth's spin. For instance, back at the start of the Phanerozoic Eon, an Earth day was two hours shorter due to higher spin rate, lost mostly due to drag from the Moon.

But as to peak wavelength, that in part is what determined the green color of chlorophyll and the peak sensitivity of human vision being around 5500Å (green-yellow).

The Sun is classified as a G3 or G4 type star, basically a yellow dwarf.

 

[ReinyDays]

True, there are variations in solar output that occur over millions and billions of years, but not so much over centuries thankfully, due partly to the slowly increasing distance of the Moon from the Earth plus the slowing of Earth's spin. For instance, back at the start of the Phanerozoic Eon, an Earth day was two hours shorter due to higher spin rate, lost mostly due to drag from the Moon.

But as to peak wavelength, that in part is what determined the green color of chlorophyll and the peak sensitivity of human vision being around 5500Å (green-yellow).

The Sun is classified as a G3 or G4 type star, basically a yellow dwarf.

So you agree our Sun won't be going nova ... because that's the basis of the claims being made in this thread ... variations of solar irradiation is supposedly causing changes in temperature here on Earth ...

Math disagrees ... I'm not excusing man's influence ... and I do think we could do better ... but CO2 doesn't change weather, so it doesn't change climate ... land use is a different story, but I don't know how much this effects weather ... clear-cutting a half million square miles of forest can't be good for the environment ... then there's digging up all that coal leaving the tailings in big open piles ... discharging carbonic acid into our rivers and streams ...

I just think we could do better ... my example is to drive fewer miles, not to rid ourselves of cars altogether ... though I waste electricity like I live in a rain forest ...

 

[toobfreak]

So you agree our Sun won't be going nova ...

No, our Sun is much too small to ever go Nova, but in about 6 billion years or so it will begin phasing into a planetary nebula.

because that's the basis of the claims being made in this thread ... variations of solar irradiation is supposedly causing changes in temperature here on Earth ...

The Sun is now in a period of least variation. That is pretty much why we are here. Its periods of variation were early on in its life and late in its life.

Math disagrees ... I'm not excusing man's influence ... and I do think we could do better ... but CO2 doesn't change weather, so it doesn't change climate ...

CO2's influence as a weak GHG appears rather limited. In general, Earth does better with elevated CO2.

land use is a different story, but I don't know how much this effects weather ... clear-cutting a half million square miles of forest can't be good for the environment ... then there's digging up all that coal leaving the tailings in big open piles ... discharging carbonic acid into our rivers and streams ..

Clear-cutting forests and excessive strip mining have a pronounced effect on the climate.

I just think we could do better ... my example is to drive fewer miles, not to rid ourselves of cars altogether ... though I waste electricity like I live in a rain forest ...

Dare I say, the real solution to climate woes is not cutting GHG or driving EVs but to simply keep human population down to perhaps 4 billion people.

 

[ReinyDays]

Dare I say, the real solution to climate woes is not cutting GHG or driving EVs but to simply keep human population down to perhaps 4 billion people.

We were less than 2 billion just 100 years ago ...

 

[toobfreak]

We were less than 2 billion just 100 years ago ...

Yeah, I rather like the 2 billion figure. I grew up in a world of 3 billion people and rather liked it, but the key to most all of our problems really is to just stop having so many kids. Time will do the rest.

 

[Donald H]

Matt has to be careful of not getting caught lying or he will immediately be labelled as a denialism.

Dr. Matthew Wielicki Attempts Math

A blog about nature, science, conservation and our broader impact on the world.

woodromances.blogspot.com

 

[ReinyDays]

Yeah, I rather like the 2 billion figure. I grew up in a world of 3 billion people and rather liked it, but the key to most all of our problems really is to just stop having so many kids. Time will do the rest.

Good luck getting people to stop having sex ... I guess that one good thing about giving government the right to abortion ... easier than controlling breeding habits ...

Brave New World indeed ...

 

[MisterBeale]

Episode 282 – The IPCC Exposed | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

September 26, 2013
"The IPCC has released its latest assessment of the state of climate science, and this time it's even more dire than their 2007 assessment. Global warming is "unequivocal" and humans are the "dominant cause" to a certainty of 95%. But how are these uncertainties calculated? And how does the IPCC process work anyway?"

United Nations Environment Programme​

"The United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) is responsible for coordinating responses to environmental issues within the United Nations system.[1][2] It was established by Maurice Strong, its first director, after the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment in Stockholm in June 1972. Its mandate is to provide leadership, deliver science and develop solutions on a wide range of issues, including climate change,[3] the management of marine and terrestrial ecosystems, and green economic development.[4]. . ."

United Nations Environment Programme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meet Maurice Strong: Globalist, Oiligarch, "Environmentalist"​

Corbett • 02/01/2016 • 10 Comments

Meet Maurice Strong: Globalist, Oiligarch, “Environmentalist” | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

Maurice Strong is Dead | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

Maurice Strong is Dead​

IOW .. ..

POLITICS.

Episode 282 – The IPCC Exposed | The Corbett Report

www.corbettreport.com

 

[ReinyDays]

Matt has to be careful of not getting caught lying or he will immediately be labelled as a denialism.

Dr. Matthew Wielicki Attempts Math

A blog about nature, science, conservation and our broader impact on the world.

woodromances.blogspot.com

Is that the new explanation de jure? ... we weren't watching the weather during WWII and the aftermath ... the data that disproves the CO2 hypothesis can be simply hand waved away ... the very essence of cherry-picking ... bravo! ...

I agree 27-year time intervals is just weather, not climate ... but that applies to the current warming just as much ... what the period of global cooling between 1940 and 1980 proves is CO2 has negligible effect on surface temperature ...

Physics uses real math, not this statistical bullshit ...