Zone1 Black Favoritism is a Hoax. Pt.2

[Riff Raff]

The fact is that I am black...

... is a clear indication of your bias. Also, that you obsess on this topic exposes your personal emotional bias on the topic.

 

[Lisa558]

And that makes it an ok type of discrimination?

I don’t like it, but it’s not an issue of racism.

 

[Riff Raff]

It is a scientific fact that blacks have the lowest intelligence test scores of all races, both in the US and in world comparisons. The difference between black and White average scores is substantial. This difference explains much of the lagging performance of blacks in all measures.

 

[Coyote]

I don’t like it, but it’s not an issue of racism.

It is still discrimination. If the majority of doner/legacy admissions are of one race is it racism? It isn’t merit.

 

[Lisa558]

It is still discrimination. If the majority of doner/legacy admissions are of one race is it racism? It isn’t merit.

No, because the decision wasn’t based on racism.

For example, my alma mater had an excellent basketball team. The members were almost all black. But they weren’t picked BECAUSE they were black, but because they were good.

But you already know this.

 

[Coyote]

No, because the decision wasn’t based on racism.

For example, my alma mater had an excellent basketball team. The members were almost all black. But they weren’t picked BECAUSE they were black, but because they were good.

But you already know this.

Is race the only discrimination that matters? If the SCOTUS decides race can’t be a factor, neither can anything else not merit.

 

[Lisa558]

Is race the only discrimination that matters? If the SCOTUS decides race can’t be a factor, neither can anything else not merit.

No, because choosing to admit someone for reasons of athletic ability or being the son or daughter of an alumnus does not violate the constitution. Making decisions based on race does, or is likely to be determined so by SCOTUS.

 

[IM2]

First, we are not talking test scores alone. We are talking about test scores and GPA, both. These two factors combined are highly predictive of academic success.

And what SCOTUS can do is rule that using race as a factor in deciding whom to admit is unconstitutional. Schools will try to work around it, like the ridiculous claim that blacks’ personalities are better than Asians, but these schools will find themselves in court.

it is time to abolish racist practices at the admissions office.

And as you were shown those 2 things are not all that admissions looks for.
Your opinion misses the 200 years of racist practices by admissions before AA as well as the fact that the SAT test itself was created by a man who believed in white supremacy.

Madison Grant.

But they can disallow them from using race as a factor because it’s racist.

Those things aren’t racist. It’s about money.

What year were you born?

And how long have whites been admitted to college based only on race?

 

[IM2]

No, because choosing to admit someone for reasons of athletic ability or being the son or daughter of an alumnus does not violate the constitution. Making decisions based on race does, or is likely to be determined so by SCOTUS.

How do we fix 246 years of race based preferences for whites by doing things the way you want done?

 

[IM2]

Lisa,

Are blacks the only people getting this "favoritism"?

 

[Coyote]

No, because choosing to admit someone for reasons of athletic ability or being the son or daughter of an alumnus does not violate the constitution. Making decisions based on race does, or is likely to be determined so by SCOTUS.

How does it specifically violate the Constitution?

Private Universities have long been given latitude in how they admit people and it has never been “merit” alone. That’s why parents obsessed with getting their kids in Ivy League schools start building their resumes in Kindergarten. If race alone were the factor, I would agree with you, but race usually one of multiple factors. The same cannot be said legacy admissions. In addition, in some programs women a given an edge because those programs tend to be disproportionately male.

I will say straight out I don’t have an issue with certain groups being given a priority in medical school, if they represent underserved communities. Those are typically Black, Hispanic, Native American, rural America and Appalachia. We need those people. That is why it shouldn’t be based on gpa/test scores alone.

 

[MizMolly]

When Obtaining Tenure, Black Women Have Never Been Underqualified, But Have Always Been Overlooked​

MSN

But according to you, women aren’t smart enough to get anywhere without AA.

 

[Lisa558]

Who is this"we?" Blacks were only gifted with citizenship 144 years ago and then and still now are only a small number in a democracy, where decisions are made by the majority, not by race. You then and still now are entitled to NOTHING!

Your thinking is foolish and riddled with appalling ignorance and disrespect.

What “we” do - and have done long ago - is eliminate racist laws so that everyone has an equal opportunity.

And I agree…..it is obnoxious and arrogant for a small minority of the population to make DEMANDS from the majority - and in a angry, seething way - for special favoritism and payments.

 

[LibertyKid]

Let's talk about myth #1 from

Myth #1: The only way to create a color-blind society is to adopt color-blind policies.

Although this assertion sounds intuitively plausible, the reality is that color-blind policies often put racial minorities at a disadvantage. For instance, all else being equal, color-blind seniority systems tend to protect White workers against job layoffs, because senior employees are usually White (Ezorsky, 1991). Likewise, color-blind college admissions favor White students because of their earlier educational advantages. Unless pre-existing inequities are corrected or otherwise taken into account, color-blind policies do not correct racial injustice—they reinforce it.

"Senior employees are usually white". As if that is a systemic issue. If the majority of tenured, long term associates are white, that is not a white issue. That is a cultural issue for African Americans to resolve themselves. How is this anyone's fault other than minorities? The majority of employers want skilled, long term employees to remain, regardless of ones race. If you work hard, put in the time, gain experience, gain productive skills, employers exist that will invest in you.

What are these "earlier educational advantages" that are only provided to White students? If one makes a statement like this the author should provide evidence to support such a claim.

 

[JoeB131]

Although this assertion sounds intuitively plausible, the reality is that color-blind policies often put racial minorities at a disadvantage. For instance, all else being equal, color-blind seniority systems tend to protect White workers against job layoffs, because senior employees are usually White (Ezorsky, 1991). Likewise, color-blind college admissions favor White students because of their earlier educational advantages. Unless pre-existing inequities are corrected or otherwise taken into account, color-blind policies do not correct racial injustice—they reinforce it.

Then correct the pre-existing inequities.... It's kind of stupid to put a inner city kid into Harvard on an Affirmative Action quota when he hasn't gotten the skills to be there.

Despite the progress that has been made, the playing field is far from level. Women continue to earn 70 cents for every male dollar. Black people continue to have twice the unemployment rate of White people, half the median family income, and half the proportion who attend four years or more of college. In fact, without affirmative action the percentage of Black students on many campuses would drop below 2%. This would effectively choke off Black access to higher education and severely restrict progress toward racial equality.

Okay, got to call shenanigan's here. When you say "Many campuses", you mean the elite schools. I say the same thing I say to Lisa.. it's not the end of the freaking world if the black kid doesn't get into Harvard because his grades were too low, or the Asian kid didn't get in because they were making room for a slightly less qualified black kid. There are other colleges. I would have loved to have gotten into Annapolis (My first choice) in 1980. I had to settle for UIC. (Not because of my grades, but because- get this, they didn't like my teeth!)

Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the Commerce Department, there are fewer than 2 million unemployed Black civilians and more than 100 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1994). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker were to displace a White worker, less than 2 percent of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be a fraction of 1 percent. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).

Again, got to call shenanigans on this one. As stated, I've seen what happens when you pick the "Affirmative Action Hire". You get a lot of resentment from the people who actually end up doing her work. I've had two cases where I've been passed up for promotions because someone wanted to meet an AA quota (Once for Gender, once for race), and frankly, it never ends well.

This comparison ignores the unique history of discrimination against Black people in America. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have a 375-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 30 involving anything else (Wilkins, 1995). Jews and Asians, on the other hand, have immigrated to North America—often as doctors, lawyers, professors, entrepreneurs, and so forth. Moreover, European Jews are able to function as part of the White majority. To expect Blacks to show the same upward mobility as Jews and Asians is to deny the historical and social reality that Black people face.

By that logic, everyone has a legitimate complaint. You think people were happy to see Grandpa Ludwig get off the boat when they had just fought one war with German and another on the horizon? Every group has their sad story, and frankly, there's no one who discriminates against Blacks today because they wished they owned a slave or because they miss the good old days when they rode on the back of the bus.

I would argue that if employers don't hire group X, Group X's attitudes are the problem.

Actually, most supporters of affirmative action oppose this type of preferential selection. Preferential selection procedures can be ordered along the following continuum:

Selection among equally qualified candidates.
Selection among comparable candidates
Selection among unequal candidates.

Selection among qualified and unqualified candidates. The strongest form of preferential selection occurs when unqualified female or minority members are chosen over other candidates who are qualified. Although affirmative action is sometimes mistakenly equated with this form of preferential treatment, federal regulations explicitly prohibit affirmative action programs in which unqualified or unneeded employees are hired.

Oh, whoops, we got a regulation! That'll solve the problem!

Sorry, at the risk of sounding like one of the Libertarian Children, fat lot of good that does you. I just spent 10 months awaiting a payout on a Condo Deconversion because even though the law CLEARLY SPELLS OUT how these are conducted, and even though we had the BEST LAW FIRM in Illinois for property management, we STILL ended up with some drunk-ass lawyer gumming up the works for nearly a year with frivilous arguments.

So while an employer can say, "Yup, I'm following the rules", the reality is, that one person you turn down for a job or promotion can drag you into court and make you jump through all sorts of costly legal hoops. The way you cover yourself... Have a couple of placeholders and be able to show them that you are hiring.


I agree there is a NEED for Affirmative Action, but when the rubber meets the road, there are a lot of problems.

 

[MizMolly]

How do we fix 246 years of race based preferences for whites by doing things the way you want done?

You can’t fix the past. That is your worst trait, holding grudges on past wrongs. White people today should not have to experience what black people experienced in the past, since they are not responsible for the wrongdoings and mistreatment of black people.

 

[Lisa558]

It is still discrimination. If the majority of doner/legacy admissions are of one race is it racism? It isn’t merit.

No, it isn’t racism because race is not a factor.

 

[IM2]

In 2014 the NYFD dropped the physical test so they could hire women, and that includes WHITE WOMEN. This was a BFOQ dropped just for women. Now, there has not been any instance that I know of that a BONAFIDE OCCUPATIONAL QUALIFICATION was dropped for blacks. And while right wing whites have continued running their mouths about the Connecticut case, this happened 5 years after Ricciv. DeStefano.

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

FDNY drops physical test requirement amid low female hiring rate

The Fire Department has stopped requiring probationary firefighters to pass a job-related physical-skills test before getting hired — a move that critics derided as a lowering of standards. The mov…

nypost.com

College Student Demographics
55% of enrolled college students are White.
The enrollment rate of Native Americans dropped by 13%.
The enrollment rate of Black Americans dropped by 8.8%.
The enrollment rate of White Americans dropped by 8.5%.
The enrollment rate of Latin Americans dropped by 7.3%.
The enrollment rate of Asians dropped by 4.8%.

So when you look at this, where is the black favoritism?
And before anyone starts, enrollment for blacks and whites basically decreased by the same amount.

College Enrollment Statistics: 2023 Data by State, Race, Gender & Age | Research.com

Recent college enrollment statistics reveal that fewer students are pursuing higher education. In many cases, this is due to financial difficulties or the need to immediately earn a living, among many others. Plus, wi...

research.com

Whites are 77 percent of the workforce.
They are 80 percent of the management.
Blacks are 12.3 percent of the workforce
Blacks are 9 percent of the management.

Employed persons by detailed occupation, sex, race, and Hispanic or Latino ethnicity : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Employed persons by detailed occupation, sex, race, and Hispanic or Latino ethnicity

www.bls.gov

And this isn't because blacks are not qualified.,

According to the 2020 census, Non hispanic whites are 60 percent of the population.
Blacks-13 percent

Where is the black favoritism?

 

[Lisa558]

You can’t fix the past. That is your worst trait, holding grudges on past wrongs. White people today should not have to experience what black people experienced in the past, since they are not responsible for the wrongdoings and mistreatment of black people.

Agree. One doesn’t eradicate, or reduce, racism by turning around and targeting iy against another race. Otherwise, proponents are basically saying that they are opposed to racism when it is against blacks, but support racism when it is against whites.

 

[IM2]

Then correct the pre-existing inequities.... It's kind of stupid to put a inner city kid into Harvard on an Affirmative Action quota when he hasn't gotten the skills to be there.



Okay, got to call shenanigan's here. When you say "Many campuses", you mean the elite schools. I say the same thing I say to Lisa.. it's not the end of the freaking world if the black kid doesn't get into Harvard because his grades were too low, or the Asian kid didn't get in because they were making room for a slightly less qualified black kid. There are other colleges. I would have loved to have gotten into Annapolis (My first choice) in 1980. I had to settle for UIC. (Not because of my grades, but because- get this, they didn't like my teeth!)



Again, got to call shenanigans on this one. As stated, I've seen what happens when you pick the "Affirmative Action Hire". You get a lot of resentment from the people who actually end up doing her work. I've had two cases where I've been passed up for promotions because someone wanted to meet an AA quota (Once for Gender, once for race), and frankly, it never ends well.



By that logic, everyone has a legitimate complaint. You think people were happy to see Grandpa Ludwig get off the boat when they had just fought one war with German and another on the horizon? Every group has their sad story, and frankly, there's no one who discriminates against Blacks today because they wished they owned a slave or because they miss the good old days when they rode on the back of the bus.

I would argue that if employers don't hire group X, Group X's attitudes are the problem.



Oh, whoops, we got a regulation! That'll solve the problem!

Sorry, at the risk of sounding like one of the Libertarian Children, fat lot of good that does you. I just spent 10 months awaiting a payout on a Condo Deconversion because even though the law CLEARLY SPELLS OUT how these are conducted, and even though we had the BEST LAW FIRM in Illinois for property management, we STILL ended up with some drunk-ass lawyer gumming up the works for nearly a year with frivilous arguments.

So while an employer can say, "Yup, I'm following the rules", the reality is, that one person you turn down for a job or promotion can drag you into court and make you jump through all sorts of costly legal hoops. The way you cover yourself... Have a couple of placeholders and be able to show them that you are hiring.


I agree there is a NEED for Affirmative Action, but when the rubber meets the road, there are a lot of problems.

Quotas are illegal. Go learn the policy and stop repeating what white race hustlers have told you. Whites have benefitted the most from this policy and unqualified white kids are getting in on legacies that were created due to racial discrimination.