Big Business, Corporate Profits, and the Minimum Wage

[EdwardBaiamonte]

actually under a capitalist system an employer has to offer the highest wages possible or lose his best employees to the competition. This is why American employees are the richest in human history!

Is this over your head or not??? Do you deny that a modern corporation has to pay the highest wages possible or lose their best workers and charge the lowest prices for the highest quality products or lose their customers???


Don't change the subject again, answer the questions!!!

 

[Supposn]

Complete and utter bullshit. But hey, getting the uneducated, the inexperienced, and the elderly on the dole because the government min wage laws prevent them from realizing the wage level they're capable of earning...that's just fine. More people on the dole is good thing cuz' they vote for more handouts, right? Can't blame them, it's YOU preventing them from working. But I can sure as hell blame you and your nanny state and union buddies. Pathetic.

Eflatminor, we agree the minimum wage laws hinders them, (i.e. not the lowest income earners, but rather those who are currently lack the ability to obtain employment at the legal minimum rate), from earning extremely sub-minimum wages.

Additionally the legal minimum prevents ALL of our nation’s lowest wage earners, from having the purchasing power of our nations’ lowest wage earners from suffering extreme losses of their wages purchasing powers.
The nation’s lowest wage earners include but are not limited only to those earning the legal minimum rate; it’s the bottom quarter of our nation’s entire wage earning segment of our population.

Thus additionally the legal minimum prevents a great increase of national poverty and increased need for public assistance. The legal minimum more or less affects ALL wages. Its elimination would definitely decrease the nation’s median wage.

I’ll continue to advocate the federal minimum wage rate be annually cost of living adjusted and you can continue advocating what I believe would increase poverty within the USA.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Widdekind]

Historically, wages in the US have never fallen below about $5 / hr. (current dollars, adjusted for inflation). Eliminating the minimum wage might reduce wages at, or near, the present minimum. But, not to "pennies per hour" -- historically, no US businesses have bothered to hire, and no US workers have bothered to work, for less than about $5 / hr. (current dollars).

Eliminating the minimum wage could create up to a million low-pay jobs, at and near $5 / hr. Meanwhile, those currently working at and near the present minimum wage ($7-$10/hr.) might see their wages slump somewhat. There would be some amount of trade off -- hundreds & hundreds of thousands more jobs, for unemployed people; vs. some "downward pull" on current low-pay jobs' wages. Some people making $7-$10/hr. might wind up "sacrificing a little", for other unemployed people, who got hired.

 

[Rshermr]

So, US workers want high pay; and low prices. You know that's not possible, right? Product prices reflect the wages paid to workers in producing said products. High labor costs, high product costs passed on to consumers.

What "magic 13" countries are better off than the US, having higher wages, and lower prices ? Businesses deserve as much (economic) protection, as workers. Workers do not get ahead, by "shaking down" their own businesses. Workers think, that they can get ahead, by "shaking down" their own country's economy? i don't see why there must be inherent antagonism between US businesses, and US workers.

i don't have any agenda. If you're the expert economics wizard, able to magically manifest high wages with low prices, then you get the Ph.D. and Senate seat. What i perceive, is US workers & managers all demanding high wages & salaries, making their businesses act like monopolies, hiking prices, to cover costs, of those high wages & salaries. Thereby, US workers & managers have restricted US businesses to "expensive stuff", that can command the high prices needed, to pay their wages & salaries. "Cheap stuff" can only be made abroad, where workers (and perhaps managers) earn less. So, all the "cheap stuff" US consumers want, they now buy from foreigners, causing a trade deficit. US workers & managers all seem to demand relatively exorbitant pay. Various combinations of consumers, and (stereotypically) foreign workers, are then asked, to cover those costs.

Try to understand what has happened in Germany. Or look at china, to see what goes on there.
Fact is, a lot of companies are bringing their production back to the US. Labor savings are great, but all sorts of other costs are involved.
But perhaps most importantly, China slaps major tariffs on goods imported to their country. As do many other countries. Not so popular with many multinational corporations, but has worked well for those that use them wisely.
So, that has little to do overall with minimum wage. But sorry, I can see no actual independent data saying that reducing the minimum wage is a good idea, particularly in bad times. Do you have any such impartial data???

 

[Wiseacre]

Wouldja rather have an extra million unemployed people if the minimum wage was $10, or have those people working at $5? Far as I'm concerned, we don't need a minimum wage at all, if an employer can find somebody to work at $4/hr, more power to him and the employee. No doubt the employee will soon find a better job, and the employer will have to deal with a high turnover and lower productivity, but hey, it's his call. I see no reason for the gov't to intervene.

 

[Rshermr]

we act like china, so that all of our workers can live at bae subsistence levels and below. .

perfectly exactly 100% stupid and liberal!!!!!!!! Chinese workers are getting rich under Republican capitalism!!! So, you believe an average wage of $197 per month is getting rich?? And do you understand that the government calls itself the Chinese Communist Party?? In 1985 they bought 5000 cars. This year they will buy 20 million!!!
http://www.economist.com/node/16693333


20,000,000 is about the number that slowly starved to death in a bad year under liberalism!! Another absurd quote bye ed the tea party con.


You can no more sense of reality than a typical Nazi could in 1940's. Don't worry though, be happy.

So, talking about reality, ed, what is provably true in your post. I would say absolutely nothing, as usual. Just the usual con dogma.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

we act like china, so that all of our workers can live at bae subsistence levels and below. .

perfectly exactly 100% stupid and liberal!!!!!!!! Chinese workers are getting rich under Republican capitalism!!! So, you believe an average wage of $197 per month is getting rich?? And do you understand that the government calls itself the Chinese Communist Party?? In 1985 they bought 5000 cars. This year they will buy 20 million!!!
World economy: The rising power of the Chinese worker | The Economist


20,000,000 is about the number that slowly starved to death in a bad year under liberalism!! Another absurd quote bye ed the tea party con.


You can no more sense of reality than a typical Nazi could in 1940's. Don't worry though, be happy.

So, talking about reality, ed, what is provably true in your post. I would say absolutely nothing, as usual. Just the usual con dogma.

nothing?? if so why be so afraid to say where it is not provable? What does your fear tell you about your IQ and character??

 

[Widdekind]

Wouldja rather have an extra million unemployed people if the minimum wage was $10, or have those people working at $5? Far as I'm concerned, we don't need a minimum wage at all, if an employer can find somebody to work at $4/hr, more power to him and the employee. No doubt the employee will soon find a better job, and the employer will have to deal with a high turnover and lower productivity, but hey, it's his call. I see no reason for the gov't to intervene.

From another thread on this forum:

Thomas Sowell: Big lies in politics - Conservative News​

Most people start out at the bottom, in entry-level jobs, and their incomes rise over time as they acquire more skills and experience... following the same individuals for 10 or 15 years usually shows the great majority of those individuals moving into higher income brackets.

The number who reach all the way to the top 20 percent greatly exceeds the number still stuck in the bottom 20 percent over the years... There are people who are genuinely rich and genuinely poor, in the sense of having very high or very low incomes for most, if not all, of their lives. But “the rich” and “the poor” in this sense are unlikely to add up to even ten percent of the population.

There does exist a vague correspondence, between average real wages, and real minimum wages, with the latter being a third or a half of the former (depending on which price index employed to adjust for inflation). Correlation not implying causation, perhaps minimum wages are adjusted, to keep them calibrated, to going wages? Why would somebody earning 2-3x minimum wage, be affected, by the minimum wage? If haircuts cost $10, then a minimum price on haircuts of a couple dollars would not logically affect anything.

 

[Supposn]

.......................................There does exist a vague correspondence, between average real wages, and real minimum wages, with the latter being a third or a half of the former (depending on which price index employed to adjust for inflation). Correlation not implying causation, perhaps minimum wages are adjusted, to keep them calibrated, to going wages? Why would somebody earning 2-3x minimum wage, be affected, by the minimum wage? If haircuts cost $10, then a minimum price on haircuts of a couple dollars would not logically affect anything.

Widdekind, the words are English but you’ve strung them together in a convoluted manner.
I assume by “real” you mean all of the amounts are expressed as the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar within the same year?

You’re stating that the minimum wage (generally or of some unspecified year) is 1/3 of the average wage (of the general or the same unexpressed specific year)?

The wages of someone earning three times the minimum wage rate (ARE AFFECTED) by the federal minimum wage rate but much less so than an employee earning twice the minimum wage rate.
/////////////////////////////////////////

Widdekind, the wages of someone earning twice the minimum wage rate are affected much more than persons earning three times the minimum rate AND less than those earning 150% of the minimum.

All employees earning no more than 150% of the minimum wage rate will generally be affected in a similar manner. Dependent upon their employers’ wage policies, their wages will generally be increased by an amount or a percentage similar to any increase of the federal minimum wage rate.

Generally the increase of the federal minimum wage does not eliminate commercial enterprises or jobs because since it affects all USA employers, the increase of the minimum is not a cause of any competitive disadvantage.

The exception to this is if employers can manage to function with less direct or indirect use of USA labor.
With regard to USA’s trade deficit, refer to the topic
of “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”,
last posted to at 10:31PM, July 10, 2012.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[whitehall]

http://nelp.3cdn.net/24befb45b36b626a7a_v2m6iirxb.pdf

Rs are against education and want to end minimum wage. If the right is successful, Newt will get his way - kids will be working as janitors in the schools that should be educating them.

What the R isn't talking about is that all wages would fall proportionately. Well, except for Mittens' cronies, that is.

Oh well, what the heck - Rick Perry says its working fine in Texasss and Mittens, Kochs, Waltons (most of their merchandise is from China), Adelson (casinos in China and gives MILLIONS to the R) says we can always send the hard jobs to other countries.

Rs, rw's have no integrity.

"Kids will be working as janitors in schools that should be educating them". Is that a typical ignorant knee jerk cliche or does it mean something to the left? We can't get Obama's school records so we won't know how the son of a hippie and an alcoholic communist made it through graduate school. Nobody knows if Obama really attended Columbia. Harvard says he was Indonesian. Liberals want small business to understand that they owe their existence to the government and all the hard work they think they put into developing their business is just a mirage. The president says the government created the private sector and by God the government can take it away. Businessmen might be working as janitors in schools that educated them if the Barry Hussein crazies have their way.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Generally the increase of the federal minimum wage does not eliminate commercial enterprises or jobs because since it affects all USA employers, the increase of the minimum is not a cause of any competitive disadvantage.

too stupid and perfectly liberal as usual!! USA employers compete with employers all over the world. Raising the minimum wage is great way to make us less competitive with China and India.

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow, very very slow!!

 

[Supposn]

Generally the increase of the federal minimum wage does not eliminate commercial enterprises or jobs because since it affects all USA employers, the increase of the minimum is not a cause of any competitive disadvantage.

too stupid and perfectly liberal as usual!! USA employers compete with employers all over the world. Raising the minimum wage is great way to make us less competitive with China and India.

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow, very very slow!!

Edward Baiamonte, the federal minimum wage laws treats all but an extremely small proportion of enterprises within the USA in a similar manner. The attributes for qualifying exceptions are specified within the written laws. This all complies with the democratic concept of governing by law (rather than royal decree).

You object to democratic government administration the minimum wage law or you believe the minimum wage law is not administered in a democratic manner?
You object to equal treatment of all enterprises within the USA And under federal jurisdiction?
You perceive within the USA the law grants advantages to some enterprises (that are denied to other enterprises)?

With regard to USA’s global trade, you would have USA’s median wage be affected The federal minimum wage law more or less affects all wage and salary rates within our nation.
USA’s global trade is a separate issue. The dog wags its tail; the tail does not wag the dog. We should not undermine USA’s median wage to conform to lesser foreign wages.

There’s a proposal that would certainly reduce USA’s trade deficit of goods while functioning as an indirect but effective subsidy of USA’s exports. The proposal’s of no net USA governments’ expenditures. All net expenditures are entirely and eventually borne by USA purchasers of foreign goods.

Refer to the topics of:
“Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit ”
last posted on 07-12-2012 05:19 PM;
and
“Trade deficits are ALWAYS detrimental to their nations’ GDPs ”
last posted on 07-09-2012 10:02 PM.

Respectfully, Supposn