Big Brother: facial recognition could convict Americans for crimes they didn't commit

[MindWars]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
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Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

 

[Pogo]

Wow, conviction for crimes people didn't commit. Bet that's never happened before.

 

[MindWars]

Wow, conviction for crimes people didn't commit. Bet that's never happened before.

The latest developments, which reveal efforts to "collect, process, or retain information on" members of "the public," came to light through an internal DHS document obtained under open-government laws by the Electronic Privacy Information Center. DHS calls its "pre-crime" system Future Attribute Screening Technology, or FAST.

Homeland Security moves forward with 'pre-crime' detection

 

[Ringel05]

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System


Fourth Amendment Implications

No court has yet explicitly recognized Fourth Amendment protection of faceprints. The Supreme Court has recognized, however, that other biometric data is constitutionally protected. In Davis v. Mississippi (394 U.S. 721 (1969)), defendant Davis was held without a warrant or probable cause during the course a rape investigation. During this time, defendant’s fingerprints were taken by authorities, and were matched to a set of fingerprints found at the scene of the crime. The evidence of the match was used at trial, and defendant was convicted of rape. Davis appealed, alleging that the acquisition of the fingerprints was the result of an unreasonable search and seizure. The Supreme Court agreed, stating that fingerprints could not be collected without a warrant. Like possessions taken from a person, the fingerprints bear “evidentiary value which the public authorities have caused an arrested person to yield.”

Together, these cases imply that the warrantless collection and use of faceprints by law enforcement is unlikely to overcome the hurdle of the Fourth Amendment. As the use of facial recognition technology becomes more prevalent and faceprints gain prominence as a form of biometric identification, that theory is likely to be put to the test.

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System – Columbia Science and Technology Law Review
http://stlr.org/2013/01/30/facial-r...nd-the-next-generation-identification-system/
It has at least one major hurdle to overcome........

 

[MindWars]

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System


Fourth Amendment Implications

No court has yet explicitly recognized Fourth Amendment protection of faceprints. The Supreme Court has recognized, however, that other biometric data is constitutionally protected. In Davis v. Mississippi (394 U.S. 721 (1969)), defendant Davis was held without a warrant or probable cause during the course a rape investigation. During this time, defendant’s fingerprints were taken by authorities, and were matched to a set of fingerprints found at the scene of the crime. The evidence of the match was used at trial, and defendant was convicted of rape. Davis appealed, alleging that the acquisition of the fingerprints was the result of an unreasonable search and seizure. The Supreme Court agreed, stating that fingerprints could not be collected without a warrant. Like possessions taken from a person, the fingerprints bear “evidentiary value which the public authorities have caused an arrested person to yield.”

Together, these cases imply that the warrantless collection and use of faceprints by law enforcement is unlikely to overcome the hurdle of the Fourth Amendment. As the use of facial recognition technology becomes more prevalent and faceprints gain prominence as a form of biometric identification, that theory is likely to be put to the test.

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System – Columbia Science and Technology Law Review
It has at least one major hurdle to overcome........

They don't care we've lost most of our rights anyway , As we try and get them back the Hitler loving gang who hate Trump can't seem to figure that out yet. Trump is trying to strip away what that asshole Obama and Bush ave both created during their time..... This might still get through Trump or not..

If it wasn't going to be used it wouldn't have been created. They already use it like I said. They just make it sound like it's all bran new this bs ain't new.

An internal U.S. Department of Homeland Security document indicates that a controversial program designed to predict whether a person will commit a crime is already being tested on some members of the public voluntarily, CNET has learned.

 

[Ringel05]

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System


Fourth Amendment Implications

No court has yet explicitly recognized Fourth Amendment protection of faceprints. The Supreme Court has recognized, however, that other biometric data is constitutionally protected. In Davis v. Mississippi (394 U.S. 721 (1969)), defendant Davis was held without a warrant or probable cause during the course a rape investigation. During this time, defendant’s fingerprints were taken by authorities, and were matched to a set of fingerprints found at the scene of the crime. The evidence of the match was used at trial, and defendant was convicted of rape. Davis appealed, alleging that the acquisition of the fingerprints was the result of an unreasonable search and seizure. The Supreme Court agreed, stating that fingerprints could not be collected without a warrant. Like possessions taken from a person, the fingerprints bear “evidentiary value which the public authorities have caused an arrested person to yield.”

Together, these cases imply that the warrantless collection and use of faceprints by law enforcement is unlikely to overcome the hurdle of the Fourth Amendment. As the use of facial recognition technology becomes more prevalent and faceprints gain prominence as a form of biometric identification, that theory is likely to be put to the test.

Facial Recognition Technology and the Next Generation Identification System – Columbia Science and Technology Law Review
It has at least one major hurdle to overcome........

They don't care we've lost most of our rights anyway , As we try and get them back the Hitler loving gang who hate Trump can't seem to figure that out yet. Trump is trying to strip away what that asshole Obama and Bush ave both created during their time..... This might still get through Trump or not..

If it wasn't going to be used it wouldn't have been created. They already use it like I said. They just make it sound like it's all bran new this bs ain't new.

An internal U.S. Department of Homeland Security document indicates that a controversial program designed to predict whether a person will commit a crime is already being tested on some members of the public voluntarily, CNET has learned.

The real test is will it be admissible in court.

 

[Pogo]

Say, you think I could beat this system if I paint my face orange?

 

[Andylusion]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
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Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

This is a home made gun. Whenever people tell me that you can put in place laws to:

"For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology."

Yeah, when did the government EVER stop gun owners from circumventing onerous laws?

When did this magical time ever happen?

I was looking at a website some years ago, that showed how to order parts online, and as long as you ordered them separately, there was no way any government agency could determine you were building a gun.

Mail order assault rifle. Nothing you can do about it.

 

[MindWars]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

View attachment 119697
This is a home made gun. Whenever people tell me that you can put in place laws to:

"For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology."

Yeah, when did the government EVER stop gun owners from circumventing onerous laws?

When did this magical time ever happen?

I was looking at a website some years ago, that showed how to order parts online, and as long as you ordered them separately, there was no way any government agency could determine you were building a gun.

Mail order assault rifle. Nothing you can do about it.

the problem is the software is created, and the police depts. are getting it ready.
Like Ringo said up there this is coming like it or not in the beginning it might be tough to prosecute on pre crime, but don't worry they'e going to dream up some bs law to do it.

Ever watch the MATRIX pre crime arrest it's in a few movies..................

 

[MindWars]

Say, you think I could beat this system if I paint my face orange?

this will be perfect for you

The Anti-Surveillance State: Clothes and Gadgets Block Face Recognition Technology, Confuse Drones and Make You (Digitally) Invisible

 

[Andylusion]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

View attachment 119697
This is a home made gun. Whenever people tell me that you can put in place laws to:

"For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology."

Yeah, when did the government EVER stop gun owners from circumventing onerous laws?

When did this magical time ever happen?

I was looking at a website some years ago, that showed how to order parts online, and as long as you ordered them separately, there was no way any government agency could determine you were building a gun.

Mail order assault rifle. Nothing you can do about it.

the problem is the software is created, and the police depts. are getting it ready.
Like Ringo said up there this is coming like it or not in the beginning it might be tough to prosecute on pre crime, but don't worry they'e going to dream up some bs law to do it.

Ever watch the MATRIX pre crime arrest it's in a few movies..................

I think you are talking about Minority Report.

Anyway.... Pre-crime seems unlikely.

That said, I do think we'll have cameras everywhere, and facial recognition will be a reality.

The sad part is, we could fix this problem right now. Kill the criminal.

The whole reason we have this problem, is because we let the criminals keep committing crimes. We keep putting more and more controls on the ability of law enforcement, and the justice system, from doing their job, which allows the criminals to run free. Yet at the same time, we demand government do something about crime.

So when you tell judges and police... you can't do anything that hurts, or damages criminals... but you have to stop criminals..... what do you expect government to do?

Well they have to adopt big brother tactics and technology, and video cameras, and ankle bracelets, and on and on and on.

This is how it works. If we shot, and buried every drug dealer, we wouldn't have a drug problem anymore. If we shot and buried thieves, we wouldn't have thief problems anymore.

We refuse to do that, so government is stepping in, taking away more freedoms, because we demand they do something about crime.... but we take away all the 6,000 year old tools for dealing with crime, and call that "being civilized". As a result being civilized now means we have government watching us 24/7. No one to blame but ourselves.

 

[ScienceRocks]

As a futurist I think it is kind of cool!

Rather that is good or bad is to be discovered.

 

[frigidweirdo]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
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Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

 

[Andylusion]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

 

[frigidweirdo]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

Problem with the Constitution is that it's quite vague... it can be interpreted.

 

[Andylusion]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

Problem with the Constitution is that it's quite vague... it can be interpreted.

Sure. Please list the area you consider "quite vague"?

 

[keepitreal]

so government is stepping in, taking away more freedoms, because we demand they do something about crime..

As a result being civilized now means we have government watching us 24/7.

They were using facial recognition technology in Iraq....
most wanted playing card suspects and to help catch Osama bin laden

This pre crime, facial recognition, 24/7 surveillance
has nothing at all to do with street crime...

this has to do with controlling uprisings,
they can monitor social media, the internet,
interrupt internet service, cell phones,
so people can't group together in masses on the fly,

they can scan targeted areas and squash it quickly
and unless key players undergo reconstructive surgery
it will be virtually impossible for them to be strategically organized

We saw what is possible since the elections
when people are upset, unhinged and unify.

This is to protect the governing body from the people
There are more civilians then law enforcement
and military combined...they are very much aware of this

They aren't concerned about criminals...
their focus is on shit starters and anti organizers

 

[frigidweirdo]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

Problem with the Constitution is that it's quite vague... it can be interpreted.

Sure. Please list the area you consider "quite vague"?

Well, most parts.

For example article 1 section 8.

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

So, Congress has the power to collect taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States. I mean, what does that mean? That could be so far reaching it's ridiculous.

 

[Old Rocks]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

You are an idiot.

The Constitution of the United States

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Right there is the Constitutional right for food stamps, ect.

 

[Andylusion]

BIG BROTHER: Facial Recognition Could Convict Americans For Crimes Didn't Commit...

It’s often the case that new technologies arrive on the scene faster than our society and its legal code can keep up. Sometimes this can be a good thing. For instance, 3D printing allows people to print out unregulated gun parts, thus allowing gun owners to circumvent the onerous laws of our government, which has struggled to come up with new laws to restrict the technology. When technology advances at a breakneck pace however, it can also be quite dangerous for our liberties. This is especially true in regards to privacy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre thought crimes, add your parental Gov. spying on you , listening to you but don't worry you have nothing to hide.




View attachment 119682




View attachment 119683

FBI Face Recognition Technology Has 'No Limits,' Congressional Hearing Reveals

But, but, but, the right says they're criminals, so it's okay to ignore the Constitution, because we're not criminals and they are, so, won't affect me.

We haven't been following the constitution for ages. If you were worried about that, you should start with the fact there is no constitutional power to have food stamps, health care, or retirement provided by government.

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” -James Madison.

If you want to follow the constitution, then you had better start following it completely.

This idea that you can just ignore whatever the constitution says when it's something you want, and then magically say we have to follow it, when it something you don't.... that doesn't work child. You either follow it all... or shut up when we don't.

Don't come on here King of Hypocrites, and start preaching about the constitution when you never follow it any other time.

Problem with the Constitution is that it's quite vague... it can be interpreted.

Sure. Please list the area you consider "quite vague"?

Well, most parts.

For example article 1 section 8.

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

So, Congress has the power to collect taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States. I mean, what does that mean? That could be so far reaching it's ridiculous.

That's actually pretty spelled out. You can only do stuff, for the "general welfare". Which is the opposite of taxing one group to pay for special benefits to another group.

Does social security provide for the general welfare? No. It harms me, to benefit a select group of others. General welfare, means something that benefits absolutely everyone equally.

That's why they said "common defense and general welfare" in one statement. Common defense helps absolutely everyone equally. Law enforcement benefits absolutely everyone equally. Years ago I read where a beggar was mugged, and had his cup of change stolen. The police found the thief and got the cup and money back.

Law enforcement is 'general welfare'. Fire departments, provide for the general welfare.

Even then, Jefferson said very specifically, that Congress did not have unlimited power to provide for the "general Welfare.

Only those abilities that are specifically enumerated.

I don't see anything vague, or up for interpretation.

The other way to look at it, is to simply flip the discussion around. Let us say that it is rather vague, and the General Welfare is up to interpretation.

Then what's the point of having a constitution at all? Were all the founding fathers completely stupid? They spent all that time, carefully crafting, and endlessly debating a constitution with all these specific controls and limitations.... only to put in an open ended unlimited power to the Federal Government, that is open to interpretation?

Think about that. "Ok you can't do this, and you can't do that, and you only have this much authority........ oh except if it is for the General Welfare, and you can make up whatever that means, and then you can do absolutely anything!"

That's not logical. They wouldn't do that. General Welfare isn't an additional power, it's a limitation on power, that prevents government from doing things for specific groups. They are only allowed to do things that benefit the entire country as a whole.

Cash For Clunkers, violated general welfare. It cost the rest of of billions, to benefit a select group.
Infrastructure spending for specific roads in specific states, violates general welfare.
All funding for specific education institutions, Cal-Tech, MIT, so on... violates general welfare.
Medicare, Social Security, SNAP, and so on... all violate general welfare.