Biden ok’d Ukrainian missile strikes into Russia with our long range missiles.

[eagle1462010]

What's the ratio of the ones who think that way, say, among your friends? I thought the West has lost fear of the MAD lately. It's been telling itself the story of its grandeur and Russia's weakness for so long that even chihuahuas like Poland or Baltic semi-states believe they can pee against the wind and stay dry.

Conventionally we would stomp you into a mud hole. We would get hurt.

But Nukes. No winners. Its always been that way.

 

[eagle1462010]

The real losers in nuclear war will be those not killed instantly. The clouds of radiation would give radiation poisoning to the survivors and they will wish they were already dead.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Conventionally we would stomp you into a mud hole.

I see, would choke us with the fat in your ample bellies you've been saving for an occasion like that. Wouldn't want to die of such a horrible death. You win. Have mercy on us all.

 

[westwall]

How so? Nuclear war is not an "apocalypse" in any sober meaning. Let's play the game.
1. Russian sucessful first "counter-force" strike. Most of US nukes are destroyed. 1 mln American civilians killed. Russian generous offer of mutually-acceptable peace is rejected.
2. American "counter-value" retaliation strike. 1 mln of Russian civilians are killed.
3. Russian "finishing" countervalue strike - 50 mln American civilians killed, infrastructure, including NPPs, destroyed. The USA doesn't exist anymore as a political or military power.
Somebody of survived Americans sign unconditional surrender.
4. BRICS and Shanghai block countries send "humanitarian occupation forces" on the territory of the former USA and gather trophies.

Where do you see any type of "Apocalypse" here?

Your estimate of losses is amusing. Wildly inaccurate, but amusing.

 

[eagle1462010]

I see, would choke us with the fat in your ample bellies you've been saving for an occasion like that. Wouldn't want to die of such a horrible death. You win. Have mercy on us all.

Your an idiot

 

[AlexanderPK]

Your an idiot

Asshole, I didn't ask you about your imaginary conventional might. You'd be hiding under your bed when the draftsman came to invite you to fight for the motherland, I'm sure.

 

[eagle1462010]

Asshole, I didn't ask you about your imaginary conventional might. You'd be hiding under your bed when the draftsman came to invite you to fight for the motherland, I'm sure.

I served during the cold war. IDGAF about your feelings.

Anyone who thinks they can win a nuclear war is an idiot.

 

[AlexanderPK]

I served during the cold war. IDGAF about your feelings.

Anyone who thinks they can win a nuclear war is an idiot.

So, it makes you a hero then? Unlike you we ALL served but does it have anything to do with what I was asking you about and where did you see me vote for a nuclear war?

 

[Delldude]

Your estimate of losses is amusing. Wildly inaccurate, but amusing.

SSBN

 

[ESay]

Trump wants to negotiate an end to the war, but he doesn't want Ukraine in a position of weakness when he does it

Ironically, the point when Ukraine was on the highest position of strength was in October-November 2022 after successfully conducted Kharkiv and Kherson 'counter-offensive' operations, when its Army was still full of highly motivated and experienced people, and vast deliveries of hardware from the West was underway.

It is back then when Ukraine should have started negotiations from 'the position of strength'. But you ******* idiots were babbling about a ramp state and a strategical defeat of Russia that was right behind the corner.

Yes, it the position of weakness now. And a possible deal will be quite bad for Ukraine.

 

[eagle1462010]

So, it makes you a hero then? Unlike you we ALL served but does it have anything to do with what I was asking you about and where did you see me vote for a nuclear war?

I aint no damn hero Ivan. I did my job in the cold Warm it is your side that continues to threaten nuclear war.

Anyone who agrees with that is a damned idiot.

 

[para bellum]

Ironically, the point when Ukraine was on the highest position of strength was in October-November 2022 after successfully conducted Kharkiv and Kherson 'counter-offensive' operations, when its Army was still full of highly motivated and experienced people, and vast deliveries of hardware from the West was underway.

It is back then when Ukraine should have started negotiations from 'the position of strength'. But you ******* idiots were babbling about a ramp state and a strategical defeat of Russia that was right behind the corner.

Yes, it the position of weakness now. And a possible deal will be quite bad for Ukraine.

If NATO had provided the same equipment in the fall of '22 that they sent 7 months later, Ukraine would have been able to keep the offensive going.

You are right, that would have been a better time to enter negotiations than now. But as soon as it was obvious that NATO was not interested in a Ukrainian victory, I said there was no point in continuing for Ukraine, and I haven't moved from that opinion.

The territory that Russia occupies today is virtually the same as it was back then. Either way if you freeze it now, Putin (or his successor) will be back for another bite at the apple in a few years.

 

[toobfreak]

Putin already declared that this would be an act of war.

The USA is attacking Russia with missiles 50 miles inside its borders. Biden had committed an act of war. This is no longer a border skirmish.

Is it wise of Biden to authorize Ukrainian use of long range U.S. missiles to strike inside Russia under all the circumstances?

Is anything Biden does ever wise?
At the advent of this conflict:

1. Biden broke up peace talks that would have ended the conflict.
2. Biden vowed not to put American boots on the ground there. He already has done so.
3. Biden vowed not to use strategic US weapons there. He has now agreed to allow Patriot missiles, Abrams tanks, F-16s, and now ATACMS.
4. At every step, while the EU stays safely out of it, Biden drags us deeper and deeper into a war with Russia and over some stupid pissant country we don't even have a treaty with.

 

[ESay]

If NATO had provided the same equipment in the fall of '22 that they sent 7 months later, Ukraine would have been able to keep the offensive going.

You are right, that would have been a better time to enter negotiations than now. But as soon as it was obvious that NATO was not interested in a Ukrainian victory, I said there was no point in continuing for Ukraine, and I haven't moved from that opinion.

The territory that Russia occupies today is virtually the same as it was back then. Either way if you freeze it now, Putin (or his successor) will be back for another bite at the apple in a few years.

Yeah, if..if, there were too many 'ifs'. I don't know what the new administration will come with. It may be, that it will make things even worse. Who knows.

But as for now, I see no way to end this war than agreeing on most, if not all, Putin's demands. So that, he won't have a reason to invade in the future. Alas. But Ukraine has lost its time.

 

[Moonglow]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/17/politics/biden-authorizes-ukraine-missiles-russian-targets/index.html

Putin already declared that this would be an act of war.

So question for all serious thinking members:

Is it wise of Biden to authorize Ukrainian use of long range U.S. missiles to strike inside Russia under all the circumstances?

Also, would it be more appropriate to defer such crucial decisions for the second Trump term?

Killer!

 

[Delldude]

The USA is attacking Russia with missiles 50 miles inside its borders. Biden had committed an act of war.

Beyond that, it's my understanding US personnel do the targeting........if that isn't an act of war.

How long does it take the missiles to be there and ready for firing by fully trained personnel ?

They fired one yesterday.

It is very possible that Trump encouraged Biden to do this.

I seriously doubt that.....

They've had these since last October, and they have used some of them already. I don't know how many remain, but it's just a handful.

They have to be tweeked by US personnel to go the extra distance.

I got it. Somebody destroyed Russian Nord Stream pipes.

Ukes....with a little help from their friends.

It's not about attempt of annexation of Alaska.

Dude, my point was it would be easier to hit EU targets and make a quick point.

Even with MIRVs one boomer is just 20 missiles with, say, 3 100kt W76-1 warheads each = 60 warheads.

Up to eight warheads, 24 missiles, 5-90 and 455 kT. Nuke response I read was a sub would fire a limited amount at targets, then go silent for some time, then do another limited launch, rinse, repeat. This is a first strike response.....and would ensure a hit every couple months negating the county's attempt at rebuilding.

The original flash bang.

Is anything Biden does ever wise?

His response to the Uke's early on was what let it escalate.

 

[skye]

 

[Ringo]

 

[Deadstick]

The real losers in nuclear war will be those not killed instantly. The clouds of radiation would give radiation poisoning to the survivors and they will wish they were already dead.

I wouldn't want to survive i would rather go in the first blinding flash before the blast hit.

 

[Delldude]

Ooops................

Moscow signaled to the West that it’s ready for a nuclear confrontation after Ukraine was given permission to attack Russian territory — and appeared to quickly act on that greenlight — using U.S.-made long-range missiles.

Kyiv appeared to waste little time after reportedly being given the go-ahead by Washington on Sunday to use U.S.-made ATACMS missiles against specific targets. Ukrainian news outlets reported early Tuesday that the missiles had been used to attack a Russian military facility in the Bryansk border region.

Russia then confirmed the attack, with the Ministry of Defense stating that Ukrainian forces had “struck a facility in [the] Bryansk region” using six ballistic, American-made ATACMS missiles. The ministry claimed air defense missile systems had shot down five of the missiles, and damaged another.

“Its fragments fell on the technical territory of a military facility in the Bryansk region, causing a fire that was quickly extinguished. There were no casualties or damage,” the ministry said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/19/russia-says-ukraine-attacked-it-using-us-made-missiles.html