CDZ Ben Shapiro explains why healthcare is not a Right, it is a commodity, and subject to freedom...

[2aguy]

Since being rich obviously means being blessed by 'God', they have the divine mandate to control. Likewise, the poor must be cursed if they have nothing, and, so, have to bear the burden.

How do you figure being rich is being blessed by God....considering we are told that it becomes more difficult to get to heaven the more wealth you have and the more you give in to the love of money.....and it states in the Beatitudes that the poor are blessed in spirit....for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven....

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Yes....try to blame America for that......Germany 1930s mean anything to you...they murdered abourt 12 million people they were looking down on....or China, atheist china....70 million people they looked down on ended up in mass graves........Russia....about 25 million people the atheists looked down on...also ended up in mass graves...Australia....ask the Aborigines how they feel....or the Ainu in Japan....

Please.....do some research....

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

There is actually something inherent in Japan....notice the year....2015......the japanese are incredibly racist and nationalist.......we don't even come close....

Japan's hidden caste of untouchables - BBC News

Never mind that the men here are dicing up some of the most expensive and highly prized animals on the planet. This is where Japan's world famous wagyu beef is prepared - prime steaks, shot through with ribbons of fat, that can set you back eye-watering prices.

And yet, for all the craftsmanship that goes into their work, many here will never speak freely about their occupation.

"When people ask us about what sort of work we do, we hesitate over how to answer," slaughterman Yuki Miyazaki says.

"In most cases, it's because we don't want our families to get hurt. If it's us facing discrimination, we can fight against that. But if our children are discriminated against, they don't have the power to fight back. We have to protect them."

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

So, let me see if I understand you correctly.
Sense we are, supposedly, a predominantly Christian nation we should use the government to do "God's work"? Is that what you are saying? That the religious right should happily use the government as an instrument of God? I must be misunderstanding you here.

Note: There is nothing specifying a particular religion's or sect's god in any document of the federal government, that I am aware of(it would be unconstitutional). Additionally, there is nothing in the Bible that even remotely suggests using the government as an instrument of God. Only that any particular government is in place because God allows it, maybe even "ordains" it. Consider this:
" The Bible shouldn’t be treated as an oracle that reveals to us the ideal social and economic policies for current-day American society. Attempting to do so usually results in bad policy and worse religion. That’s how we got slavemasters waving Bibles over their heads in defense of the moral appropriateness of an evil institution. It would be good if we could stop doing that sort of thing." Jared Hillary Ruark Here's a link to the article I pulled this from: Jesus, The Bible, and Foodstamps: Can a Christian Be Against The Welfare State?
So, should we, as a "Christian Nation" support a "right to Healthcare"? Well, I guess I'd have to say, "One's faith/spirituality has little, if anything, to do with the matter as far as government and governing others is concerned."

The left complains we need to separate church and state, then they attack the church because we don't give the government complete control over our healthcare.....? Really?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Human beings are commodities in america.

Of course you didn't watch the video......healthcare as a Right turns people into slaves.....and will destroy medical innovation and progress.......

The american people are already enslaved.

Yez mazzah.

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

 

[bt404]

A question for the Libertarian/Conservatives.

Would you accept a universal healthcare system if it was cheaper/more cost efficient, as it's proven to be in almost every OECD country? In other words, would you accept it if it had ZERO impact on your life/financial expenses/overall economy?

There is no evidence that any government run program in the U.S. has ever been more (financially) efficient than private enterprise.

How about the G.I Bill which provided millions of Americans access to higher education, cheap housing, and healthcare, which also subsequently led to the creation of the largest middle class in the world? Or Eisenhower's programs to help build the international federal highway system? In fact it wasn't until the deregulation/semi privatization of major industry and banking, which occurred under the Reagan's administration, when wealth inequality started increasing and our infrastructure stagnated.

"Universal Healthcare" limits choice, by definition, limits incentives for innovation, and generally stifles growth. So yeah, I would reject it.

This is neoliberal nonsense. Growth and innovation in, which occurred most during the 1950s to 1970s, happened under governments that spent the most on social welfare programs. See above. There is ZERO evidence that a majorily privatized nation would spur "incentives for innovation." That's like saying that people won't invent anything if they don't get paid a lot of money (if you think that, you probably have never met artists, scientists, or entrepreneurs that hundreds of times more passionate about their craft/what they produce t than money, power, and status)

 

[bt404]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

Those rankings are fake.......our mortality rates lower our numbers because of traffic deaths, gang violence and the way those countries classify live births.....

And those countries....can only afford their low quality healthcare because they do not have to pay for a world class military...we protect them.....we pay for that, they don't.....and their systems are collapsing under the weight of people who are being trained not to work.....so they have to import foreign immigrants who are now flooding those same welfare systems.....

thatcher was absolutely right......socialism only works until you run out of other people's money....

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

Those businessmen will care about healthcare the same reason they care about toilets, tefrigerators and spoons......they can make money by making a product that is less expensive and better quality than the other guy.......the ones who don't care...is the government clock puncher who puts you on a 6 month waiting list to see the next clock puncher who will then schedule you for your first visit for the general practitioner to check that lump in your neck.....

You want the Post Office, VA, and Drivers License bureaucrats to control your access to healthcare....

And can you tell us how you expect the same government bureaucrats who run the VA like a 3rd world medical system will all of a sudden improve what they do when they have to control the healthcare of 320 million people?

You guys always ignore that question.....

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

Do you guys even look at the problems with those socialist medical systems...or do you just read the fake news about them?

FF says emergency healthcare is on the brink of collapse

Fianna Fáil health spokesperson Billy Kelleher said that hospitals were in the grip of a “vicious cycle” where underfunding in one area was having a detrimental impact on others after claims it could cost more than €100m to deal with the trolley crisis.

Mr Kelleher predicted the “unrealistic” health budget would need an emergency supplement to keep things going.

“The emergency treatment service is on the verge of collapse.

“Now we are being told it will cost €100m to deal with the trolley crisis.

“There i s not enough money for the Fair Deal scheme, and home care and that is having a knock-on effect on the emergency departments — it’s a vicious cycle,” Mr Kelleher said.

The HSE refused to comment on reports that €100m is needed to sort out the blockage in emergency departments, which have seen up to 601 patients left on trolleys due to lack of beds.

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

Sweden....really?

'Sweden's healthcare is an embarrassment'

But as the negative trend continues in Sweden, so is the growing sense of dread that serious deterioration is on the way. The seemingly chronic inability to do anything about our long waiting times affects Swedish quality of care in many other respects.

In recent years, we also noted gaps in cancer care, primarily in Stockholm County. It may be a matter of time before unreasonable waiting times and chaotic organization start to affect actual medical treatments. That long waiting times take a serious toll on patients' quality of life and social situations is well known.

Swedish patients have reacted to the poor availability of medical care by highly justified dissatisfaction. The official national guideline for the maximum waiting time to see a doctor in primary care in Sweden is seven days (ridiculously long compared to many other countries). Only Portugal has longer expected waiting times.

Current surveys suggest that the waiting time for family physicians and specialists in the Greater Stockholm area currently appears to be up to one month.

The county councils and the Swedish Association of Local Authorities and Regions' (SKL) excuses are well known: shortage of doctors, large migration to urban areas, nurses fleeing the profession, and so on.

 

[2aguy]

This video by Ben Shapiro points out the actual truth of healthcare...it is not a Right....because you cannot force a doctor to treat you without turning that Doctor into a slave....taking away their freedom to practice their medical profession without coercion.....

I find it to be hypocrisy, by those who claim who claim that it's not a right to have healthcare in America, yet claim to be Christians..
We are alleged Christian nation, at least when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", Muslims and including "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. And of course, the Republican Party claims to be the "party of God".
In the Bible, there are multiple verses, telling Christians to take care of the sick and healing people. Jesus healed people for free..
The United States is the only country where healthcare in not a right. Yet In God's eyes, healthcare is a right.
So which is it? America is or isn't a Christian nation?

There is something inherent in the american psyche that requires a subset of the population be punished and made to suffer, possibly caught up in this ridiculous notion of original sin. American society has always required someone, some group to look down upon and punish, who better than the poor. They have no voice and no power, and the vote as an instrument by which society can right itself is clearly fiction at this point. America had never been anything other than a colonial societal wealth extraction enterprise. And it still is.

Please......answer this question.....

We have the Veteran's Administration, specifically designed and targeted to provide healthcare for the small number of vets in our country.....and the government can't even do that right....we have vets dying on fake waiting lists because the bureacracy can't handle providing healthcare for this small community....

So please...tell us.....how do you expect the same bureaucrats, politicians who run this system...to run healthcare for 320 million people.....please...tell us how that works out....

...and how do you expect the same businessmen and financiers who's nearly collapsed the economy, put our entire infrastructure on hold to invest in hotels in Dubai, and who exported almost all American manufacturing....to even remotely give a shit about healthcare for 320 million people much less run it...

Here's the thing. It's been done before. If politicians ran the system like an actual democracy--you know, for the people--instead of running it alongside the business class, maybe we could get a more efficient healthcare system. Hey, it's been done. America is ranked the LOWEST in quality healthcare in the first world (US Health System Ranks Last Among Eleven Countries on Measures of Access, Equity, Quality, Efficiency, and Healthy Lives), and also, incidentally, has the most private backing (Health resources - Health spending - OECD Data). It's also the most expensive. Yet countries like France, Sweden, and Ireland have way higher quality healthcare, despite being run by "bureucrats and politicians." NO modern country has ever created an efficient healthcare through privatization. The idea is ahistorical, insane, and uniquely American in its ignorance.

France....it seems they are running out of other people's money.....

France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke

Yet France’s looming recession and a steady increase in chronic diseases including diabetes threaten to change that, says Willy Hodin, who heads Groupe PHR, an umbrella organization for 2,200 French pharmacies.

The health system exceeds its budget by billions of euros each year, and in the face of rising costs, taxpayer-funded benefits such as spa treatments, which the French have long justified as preventive care, now look more like expendable luxuries. “Reform is needed fast,” Hodin says. “The most optimistic believe this system can survive another five to six years. The less optimistic don’t think it will last more than three.”

Even as Spain and Greece gut their own costly health-care systems in an effort to control government spending, French President François Hollande is struggling to preserve his country’s enviably generous benefits, which most citizens consider a right.

Aware that any attempt to dramatically curtail perks would likely lead to massive protests, Hollande has taken a more modest approach to cost-cutting. France’s health system now requires doctors to reduce the number of drugs they prescribe and to substitute generics for brand-name pharmaceuticals.

----------

The government projects the health-care system’s 2013 shortfall will be about €5.1 billion, down from €11.6 billion in 2010. Yet that forecast may be optimistic, since it’s based on the assumption that the economy will grow 0.8 percent—double the European Commission’s estimate. France’s system “is simply unaffordable, unsustainable, and the manner in which it’s financed is a huge burden on the economy,” says Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London. “The French are not being realistic.”

 

[Care4all]

Human beings are not cell phones, if one's health is at stake, you don't wait to get medical care, like a cell phone you need to save up for and wait for market forces to bring the cost down.

Right now 80% of you don't get your own health care insurance, you get an insurance health care benefit that your employer chooses for you and pays for 70% to 80% of it....

you play no part in ''market forces'' to bring the cost down.

ONLY when each and every person, pays in full themselves, with no tax write off incentive, with no HSA's, with no MEDICARE, MEDICAID, no gvt funding for medical research and development, no gvt funding of medical schools, no funding from gvt for hospitals, no medical school grants for students, no free vaccines, no CHIP healthcare for children, no VA medical centers, no gvt health clinics, no tax write offs for employer provided health insurance, no gvt funding for drug research, no FDA etc etc etc etc....

only when all of these things and more, that our government is up to its eyeballs in the manipulation of these artificial market forces, are taken away, would the possibility of 'true market forces' that could come in to play enough to bring prices down enough for everyone, both rich and poor, be able to afford their health care costs.

let's be blunt...

it ain't gonna happen...

so on to plan B

 

[2aguy]

Human beings are not cell phones, if one's health is at stake, you don't wait to get medical care, like a cell phone you need to save up for and wait for market forces to bring the cost down.

Right now 80% of you don't get your own health care insurance, you get an insurance health care benefit that your employer chooses for you and pays for 70% to 80% of it....

you play no part in ''market forces'' to bring the cost down.

ONLY when each and every person, pays in full themselves, with no tax write off incentive, with no HSA's, with no MEDICARE, MEDICAID, no gvt funding for medical research and development, no gvt funding of medical schools, no funding from gvt for hospitals, no medical school grants for students, no free vaccines, no CHIP healthcare for children, no VA medical centers, no gvt health clinics, no tax write offs for employer provided health insurance, no gvt funding for drug research, no FDA etc etc etc etc....

only when all of these things and more, that our government is up to its eyeballs in the manipulation of these artificial market forces, are taken away, would the possibility of 'true market forces' could come in to play enough to bring prices down enough for everyone, both rich and poor, be able to afford their health care costs.

let's be blunt...

it ain't gonna happen...

so on to plan B

Yeah...you don't get it......healthcare, like cell phones, get better and less expensive....because there are people who want to make money.....and when there are lots of people trying to make money from healthcare, they need to make it less expensive and better than the other guy....or the customer will get their healthcare from someone else...someone who does it better, faster and at less cost....

Do you understand the better and more efficient part.....

It is going to happen...Trump is President now....he wants good healthcare for all Americans....he doesn't care about putting the government in control.....which was the only goal of obama and the democrats...since their system was going to kick people happy with their healthcare, off of their healthcare and into the government system....

 

[Fenton Lum]

Human beings are not cell phones, if one's health is at stake, you don't wait to get medical care, like a cell phone you need to save up for and wait for market forces to bring the cost down.

Right now 80% of you don't get your own health care insurance, you get an insurance health care benefit that your employer chooses for you and pays for 70% to 80% of it....

you play no part in ''market forces'' to bring the cost down.

ONLY when each and every person, pays in full themselves, with no tax write off incentive, with no HSA's, with no MEDICARE, MEDICAID, no gvt funding for medical research and development, no gvt funding of medical schools, no funding from gvt for hospitals, no medical school grants for students, no free vaccines, no CHIP healthcare for children, no VA medical centers, no gvt health clinics, no tax write offs for employer provided health insurance, no gvt funding for drug research, no FDA etc etc etc etc....

only when all of these things and more, that our government is up to its eyeballs in the manipulation of these artificial market forces, are taken away, would the possibility of 'true market forces' could come in to play enough to bring prices down enough for everyone, both rich and poor, be able to afford their health care costs.

let's be blunt...

it ain't gonna happen...

so on to plan B

Yeah...you don't get it......healthcare, like cell phones, get better and less expensive....because there are people who want to make money.....and when there are lots of people trying to make money from healthcare, they need to make it less expensive and better than the other guy....or the customer will get their healthcare from someone else...someone who does it better, faster and at less cost....

Do you understand the better and more efficient part.....

It is going to happen...Trump is President now....he wants good healthcare for all Americans....he doesn't care about putting the government in control.....which was the only goal of obama and the democrats...since their system was going to kick people happy with their healthcare, off of their healthcare and into the government system....

That gets less expensive bit sure ain't at work here in america is it. And your entire premise is fiction since your economy runs on debt with private bankers creating money out of nothing but more debt

 

[Fenton Lum]

Human beings are not cell phones, if one's health is at stake, you don't wait to get medical care, like a cell phone you need to save up for and wait for market forces to bring the cost down.

Right now 80% of you don't get your own health care insurance, you get an insurance health care benefit that your employer chooses for you and pays for 70% to 80% of it....

you play no part in ''market forces'' to bring the cost down.

ONLY when each and every person, pays in full themselves, with no tax write off incentive, with no HSA's, with no MEDICARE, MEDICAID, no gvt funding for medical research and development, no gvt funding of medical schools, no funding from gvt for hospitals, no medical school grants for students, no free vaccines, no CHIP healthcare for children, no VA medical centers, no gvt health clinics, no tax write offs for employer provided health insurance, no gvt funding for drug research, no FDA etc etc etc etc....

only when all of these things and more, that our government is up to its eyeballs in the manipulation of these artificial market forces, are taken away, would the possibility of 'true market forces' that could come in to play enough to bring prices down enough for everyone, both rich and poor, be able to afford their health care costs.

let's be blunt...

it ain't gonna happen...

so on to plan B

"The market" as a self correcting force of nature is fiction.

 

[2aguy]

A question for the Libertarian/Conservatives.

Would you accept a universal healthcare system if it was cheaper/more cost efficient, as it's proven to be in almost every OECD country? In other words, would you accept it if it had ZERO impact on your life/financial expenses/overall economy?

There is no evidence that any government run program in the U.S. has ever been more (financially) efficient than private enterprise.

How about the G.I Bill which provided millions of Americans access to higher education, cheap housing, and healthcare, which also subsequently led to the creation of the largest middle class in the world? Or Eisenhower's programs to help build the international federal highway system? In fact it wasn't until the deregulation/semi privatization of major industry and banking, which occurred under the Reagan's administration, when wealth inequality started increasing and our infrastructure stagnated.

"Universal Healthcare" limits choice, by definition, limits incentives for innovation, and generally stifles growth. So yeah, I would reject it.

This is neoliberal nonsense. Growth and innovation in, which occurred most during the 1950s to 1970s, happened under governments that spent the most on social welfare programs. See above. There is ZERO evidence that a majorily privatized nation would spur "incentives for innovation." That's like saying that people won't invent anything if they don't get paid a lot of money (if you think that, you probably have never met artists, scientists, or entrepreneurs that hundreds of times more passionate about their craft/what they produce t than money, power, and status)

The G.I.Bill...thanks for bringing it up since it doesn't support your side of the discussion and in fact supports my side.....

When the government wanted to help G.I.s get an education...did they build VA schools to educate them? Like they did with Healthcare for Vets? No.

What did they do.....

They gave vets School Vouchers for education.....the government gave them a school voucher, they took that voucher into the education market place and purchased their education...which meant those schools that were good, had vets go to them, the bad schools, didn't get vets.......

So you are wrong......the government here set up VA hospitals instead of giving Vets vouchers for healthcare, the result? A horrible healthcare system that kills vets.

The government can't run things....they can hand out checks.....the market place for education handled educating the Vets...not the government....

The road system.....they poured concrete.......and what is the state of our road system now?


I would bet you guys are against school vouchers for public school kids.......the very same voucher system that you are bragging about that was used to educate Veterans......

the government than can't run the VA system....can't run a healthcare system for 320 million people.

 

[2aguy]

Human beings are not cell phones, if one's health is at stake, you don't wait to get medical care, like a cell phone you need to save up for and wait for market forces to bring the cost down.

Right now 80% of you don't get your own health care insurance, you get an insurance health care benefit that your employer chooses for you and pays for 70% to 80% of it....

you play no part in ''market forces'' to bring the cost down.

ONLY when each and every person, pays in full themselves, with no tax write off incentive, with no HSA's, with no MEDICARE, MEDICAID, no gvt funding for medical research and development, no gvt funding of medical schools, no funding from gvt for hospitals, no medical school grants for students, no free vaccines, no CHIP healthcare for children, no VA medical centers, no gvt health clinics, no tax write offs for employer provided health insurance, no gvt funding for drug research, no FDA etc etc etc etc....

only when all of these things and more, that our government is up to its eyeballs in the manipulation of these artificial market forces, are taken away, would the possibility of 'true market forces' that could come in to play enough to bring prices down enough for everyone, both rich and poor, be able to afford their health care costs.

let's be blunt...

it ain't gonna happen...

so on to plan B

"The market" as a self correcting force of nature is fiction.

No...it isn't....it actually works.....it doesn't work when politicians and bureaucrats do more than just act as police officers...when they start making economic decisions that is when the system crashes.

 

[Care4all]

A question for the Libertarian/Conservatives.

Would you accept a universal healthcare system if it was cheaper/more cost efficient, as it's proven to be in almost every OECD country? In other words, would you accept it if it had ZERO impact on your life/financial expenses/overall economy?

There is no evidence that any government run program in the U.S. has ever been more (financially) efficient than private enterprise.

How about the G.I Bill which provided millions of Americans access to higher education, cheap housing, and healthcare, which also subsequently led to the creation of the largest middle class in the world? Or Eisenhower's programs to help build the international federal highway system? In fact it wasn't until the deregulation/semi privatization of major industry and banking, which occurred under the Reagan's administration, when wealth inequality started increasing and our infrastructure stagnated.

"Universal Healthcare" limits choice, by definition, limits incentives for innovation, and generally stifles growth. So yeah, I would reject it.

This is neoliberal nonsense. Growth and innovation in, which occurred most during the 1950s to 1970s, happened under governments that spent the most on social welfare programs. See above. There is ZERO evidence that a majorily privatized nation would spur "incentives for innovation." That's like saying that people won't invent anything if they don't get paid a lot of money (if you think that, you probably have never met artists, scientists, or entrepreneurs that hundreds of times more passionate about their craft/what they produce t than money, power, and status)

The G.I.Bill...thanks for bringing it up since it doesn't support your side of the discussion and in fact supports my side.....

When the government wanted to help G.I.s get an education...did they build VA schools to educate them? Like they did with Healthcare for Vets? No.

What did they do.....

They gave vets School Vouchers for education.....the government gave them a school voucher, they took that voucher into the education market place and purchased their education...which meant those schools that were good, had vets go to them, the bad schools, didn't get vets.......

So you are wrong......the government here set up VA hospitals instead of giving Vets vouchers for healthcare, the result? A horrible healthcare system that kills vets.

The government can't run things....they can hand out checks.....the market place for education handled educating the Vets...not the government....

The road system.....they poured concrete.......and what is the state of our road system now?


I would bet you guys are against school vouchers for public school kids.......the very same voucher system that you are bragging about that was used to educate Veterans......

the government than can't run the VA system....can't run a healthcare system for 320 million people.

NO ONE, EVER in the history of mankind, has recommended the government build hospitals that they run, for our health care.

Universal Healthcare is simply MEDICARE....you get to choose your hospital and doctors that are in the marketplace, and the gvt gives you a voucher/via a card, to pay for 80% of it and you pay the other 20%.