Belgium Euthanizes Deaf Twins Going Blind

[AmyNation]

If they learned sign language, they could have learned Braille.
I feel badly for them AND the family.

Perhaps they could have sucked it up and learned to carry on. However, they chose not to.

Yes.

But then... how do we know that if they take their lives before their time has come.... how do we know, that afterwards it's not going to be a worst hell than they had here on earth?

That's what makes me think twice ... and decide is not the right route to take. No.

You don't.

 

[AmyNation]

If folks are of sound mind and choose to end their lives, I'm not going to stop them.

Most people who are healthy are of sound mind and would be presumed to have a screw loose if thy chose to end their life.
I would presume assisting in a suicide would have to meet some ethical grounds for the physician whose oath is to do no harm.

You presume a lot.

 

[AmyNation]

If that's what she wanted? Sure.

So by extension, every depressed person who wants to die should be euthanized by their doctor instead of receiving treatment?
By that logic, my bi-polar mother, brother and sister should all be dead.

You can add me to that list. Of course, I'm sure some here would be glad I was gone...then again, if they did it when I was going through that tough time as a teenager, you'd never have known I existed at all.

In Belgium, children can't petition for assisted suicide.

 

[Katzndogz]

We don't let people who are mentally ill make any kind of medical decisions. They are not of sound mind. Specifically applied to these twins, certainly they had some kind of mental/or emotional problems preexisting going blind. They lived fairly insular lives and had only one another. No family, no friends. They needed nothing more than each other. They chose suicide because neither of them could tolerate not seeing the face of the other twin again. There are plenty of people who chose suicide because Pandora wasn't real. Avatar wasn't real. They chose not to live in a world of their fabrication. It's the same thing with these twins. If they chose to live, they would have to admit others into their little two-some world and chose not to do so.

Liberals would have a world where the girl that says "I'd rather die that be seen in that dress" get her final shot immediately.

 

[AmyNation]

We don't let people who are mentally ill make any kind of medical decisions. They are not of sound mind. Specifically applied to these twins, certainly they had some kind of mental/or emotional problems preexisting going blind. They lived fairly insular lives and had only one another. No family, no friends. They needed nothing more than each other. They chose suicide because neither of them could tolerate not seeing the face of the other twin again. There are plenty of people who chose suicide because Pandora wasn't real. Avatar wasn't real. They chose not to live in a world of their fabrication. It's the same thing with these twins. If they chose to live, they would have to admit others into their little two-some world and chose not to do so.

Liberals would have a world where the girl that says "I'd rather die that be seen in that dress" get her final shot immediately.

2 doctors and a licensed psychiatrist disagree with your Internet assessment.

 

[Dreamy]

This thread address several issues.

The right to choose to die.

The right to choose to die even when no terminal illness is a factor.

The soundness of mind and determination of mental health.

And lastly, but to me the most important aspect is how we, as society, value or devalue life and how we value or devalue life as individuals.

I am curious. How many here might seriously consider this same choice if you were living with the same afflictions as these twins? I doubt I would make the same choice for myself but of course one can never be sure unless a person has walked their walk.

 

[AmyNation]

I can't imagine what it's like to be totally dependent on others. To never be able to go out and do my own shopping, to be nearly incapable of communicating with others.

Would I opt out as they did? I just don't know.

However, I've watched both an aunt and an uncle succumb to althzimers, and I know that if the day comes where I am diagnosed with it as well, I will end it before I slip too far away.

 

[Michelle420]

This thread address several issues.

The right to choose to die.

The right to choose to die even when no terminal illness is a factor.

The soundness of mind and determination of mental health.

And lastly, but to me the most important aspect is how we, as society, value or devalue life and how we value or devalue life as individuals.

I am curious. How many here might seriously consider this same choice if you were living with the same afflictions as these twins? I doubt I would make the same choice for myself but of course one can never be sure unless a person has walked their walk.

I really couldn't say unless I was experiencing the situation.

However, I know that my mind is always going on about something and having the affliction of being both deaf and blind would either force me into a meditative state or drive me to insanity.

But I couldn't say whether I would end myself over it.

If the world was ending and I knew for certain that even if I survived my days on earth were numbered and I was going to die anyway, I may kill myself.

It's not something anyone takes lightly.

 

[strollingbones]

So, Helen Keller should have been euthanized instead of meeting a natural death at age 87?
Some people are truly sick.

did anyone say this?

 

[Katzndogz]

We don't let people who are mentally ill make any kind of medical decisions. They are not of sound mind. Specifically applied to these twins, certainly they had some kind of mental/or emotional problems preexisting going blind. They lived fairly insular lives and had only one another. No family, no friends. They needed nothing more than each other. They chose suicide because neither of them could tolerate not seeing the face of the other twin again. There are plenty of people who chose suicide because Pandora wasn't real. Avatar wasn't real. They chose not to live in a world of their fabrication. It's the same thing with these twins. If they chose to live, they would have to admit others into their little two-some world and chose not to do so.

Liberals would have a world where the girl that says "I'd rather die that be seen in that dress" get her final shot immediately.

2 doctors and a licensed psychiatrist disagree with your Internet assessment.

If you read anything about this case at all, you would know that they chose suicide because they would not see one another again.

 

[AmyNation]

We don't let people who are mentally ill make any kind of medical decisions. They are not of sound mind. Specifically applied to these twins, certainly they had some kind of mental/or emotional problems preexisting going blind. They lived fairly insular lives and had only one another. No family, no friends. They needed nothing more than each other. They chose suicide because neither of them could tolerate not seeing the face of the other twin again. There are plenty of people who chose suicide because Pandora wasn't real. Avatar wasn't real. They chose not to live in a world of their fabrication. It's the same thing with these twins. If they chose to live, they would have to admit others into their little two-some world and chose not to do so.

Liberals would have a world where the girl that says "I'd rather die that be seen in that dress" get her final shot immediately.

2 doctors and a licensed psychiatrist disagree with your Internet assessment.

If you read anything about this case at all, you would know that they chose suicide because they would not see one another again.

So? Even if we take that as 100% true, it doesn't make them mentally ill.

 

[Katzndogz]

What will eventually happen when those who choose to end their lives because of an unalterable circumstance are considered reasonable and of sound mind, is that anyone who doesn't want to end their lives when faced with the same circumstance will be unreasonable and not of sound mind. A sane person would end their lives. Simply by refusing suicide because they are deaf and blind, it proves they shouldn't be making this decision for themselves.

 

[Scorpion]

So, Helen Keller should have been euthanized instead of meeting a natural death at age 87?
Some people are truly sick.

did anyone say this?[/QUOT
Specifically?
Noone.
Knee-jerk reaction to link because it implies that people with disabilities have little or no value to society.
One is or may be perceived as imperfect and lacking in some way, then sure, feel free to end it.
The whole situation strikes me as morally and ethically wrong.
And before anyone goes off on me being a 'religious wingnut', I'm agnostic.

 

[gallantwarrior]

This thread address several issues.

The right to choose to die.

The right to choose to die even when no terminal illness is a factor.

The soundness of mind and determination of mental health.

And lastly, but to me the most important aspect is how we, as society, value or devalue life and how we value or devalue life as individuals.

I am curious. How many here might seriously consider this same choice if you were living with the same afflictions as these twins? I doubt I would make the same choice for myself but of course one can never be sure unless a person has walked their walk.

None of us can conclusively say how we would choose if we were placed in similar circumstances. We can make some reasonable statements about our feelings and thoughts should such an affliction take us. But until actually faced with the eventuality of living under such constraints, we truly have no way of knowing.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I can't imagine what it's like to be totally dependent on others. To never be able to go out and do my own shopping, to be nearly incapable of communicating with others.

Would I opt out as they did? I just don't know.

However, I've watched both an aunt and an uncle succumb to althzimers, and I know that if the day comes where I am diagnosed with it as well, I will end it before I slip too far away.

Yeah, for myself, I think it would depend greatly on how much I could still accomplish independently. Having been temporarily "helpless" due to an injury has made it clear that I would not want my quality of life to become the focus of another vibrant, lively individual who has their own life to live.

 

[Dreamy]

This thread address several issues.

The right to choose to die.

The right to choose to die even when no terminal illness is a factor.

The soundness of mind and determination of mental health.

And lastly, but to me the most important aspect is how we, as society, value or devalue life and how we value or devalue life as individuals.

I am curious. How many here might seriously consider this same choice if you were living with the same afflictions as these twins? I doubt I would make the same choice for myself but of course one can never be sure unless a person has walked their walk.

None of us can conclusively say how we would choose if we were placed in similar circumstances. We can make some reasonable statements about our feelings and thoughts should such an affliction take us. But until actually faced with the eventuality of living under such constraints, we truly have no way of knowing.

Of course. I addressed that fact. I am simply speaking in a hypothetical sense. Emphasis for clarity.

I doubt I would make the same choice for myself but of course one can never be sure unless a person has walked their walk.

 

[Swagger]

When I was stationed in N. Ireland, Army Intelligence and a handfull of seconded members of the Parachute Regiment were tracking a sniper in the county I was based in. They snatched anyone off the streets they suspected of being involved or who might know the whereabouts of the sniper and those harbouring her. Eventually they were pointed in the direction of a local pub. They took the landlord and his son in for questioning, but had to release them due to lack of evidence.

The shootings continued for the next month, but the net was closing on her. Once they'd identified who she was, they began shadowing her. She died in a shoot-out at a petrol station near to the pub under surveillance. They re-visited the pub with an official warrant, ransacked th building and uncovered her rifle.

The landlord was sent to prison, but the son was released without charge; despite evidence pointing towards his guilt being found in the sniper's car. Later on that year, he was found in his hotel room, dead from the neck down. It's no secret that Army Intelligence knew how to inflict this frightening handicap, as it was used as a terror tactic against the IRA. He was nineteen years old, and couldn't face life with no sensory feeling below his shoulders. Someone helped him on his way to the other side.

Do you think that you could live with such a handicap? Honestly?

 

[MikeK]

When I was stationed in N. Ireland, Army Intelligence and a handfull of seconded members of the Parachute Regiment were tracking a sniper in the county I was based in. They snatched anyone off the streets they suspected of being involved or who might know the whereabouts of the sniper and those harbouring her. Eventually they were pointed in the direction of a local pub. They took the landlord and his son in for questioning, but had to release them due to lack of evidence.

The shootings continued for the next month, but the net was closing on her. Once they'd identified who she was, they began shadowing her. She died in a shoot-out at a petrol station near to the pub under surveillance. They re-visited the pub with an official warrant, ransacked th building and uncovered her rifle.

The landlord was sent to prison, but the son was released without charge; despite evidence pointing towards his guilt being found in the sniper's car. Later on that year, he was found in his hotel room, dead from the neck down. It's no secret that Army Intelligence knew how to inflict this frightening handicap, as it was used as a terror tactic against the IRA. He was nineteen years old, and couldn't face life with no sensory feeling below his shoulders. Someone helped him on his way to the other side.

Do you think that you could live with such a handicap? Honestly?

Very interesting story.

To answer your question -- No! I would beg to be euthanized rather than to live that way.

I believe very strongly in the right to euthanasia. I have for many years supported the Hemlock Society and I consider Dr. Jack Kevorkian to be one of the few real heroes of our time. In my opinion it's time to die when there is nothing left to live for and the only question I have about that is the best way to do it.

If I had nothing left to live for and the choice were available to me I would put my financial affairs in order, pay in advance for respectful disposal of my corpse, and ask to be gradually set adrift in an increasingly potent narcotic stupor until totally unconscious and then terminated. A painless, intensely pleasurable exit.

I've read that suicide prevention is a priority concern in most American prisons, which I regard as insidiously cruel. Offenders facing long prison terms should be granted the option of euthanasia rather than being forced to endure what probably is sheer psychological torture.

I wonder if access to euthanasia might serve as a deterrent to many homicides, inasmuch as many homicides are outer-directed suicides (and many suicides are inner-directed homicides).

And while on this subject it occurs to me that the rate of suicide among our active military personnel is absolutely stunning! I heard that more of our troops commit suicide than are killed in actual combat. Can this be true? I was in the military in the mid-1950s and I can't recall ever hearing about a single suicide.

This is an amazing statistic: Military suicides rise to a record 349, topping number of troops killed in combat - The Washington Post

Something is very, very wrong and this situation needs to be closely examined.

 

[Againsheila]

When I was stationed in N. Ireland, Army Intelligence and a handfull of seconded members of the Parachute Regiment were tracking a sniper in the county I was based in. They snatched anyone off the streets they suspected of being involved or who might know the whereabouts of the sniper and those harbouring her. Eventually they were pointed in the direction of a local pub. They took the landlord and his son in for questioning, but had to release them due to lack of evidence.

The shootings continued for the next month, but the net was closing on her. Once they'd identified who she was, they began shadowing her. She died in a shoot-out at a petrol station near to the pub under surveillance. They re-visited the pub with an official warrant, ransacked th building and uncovered her rifle.

The landlord was sent to prison, but the son was released without charge; despite evidence pointing towards his guilt being found in the sniper's car. Later on that year, he was found in his hotel room, dead from the neck down. It's no secret that Army Intelligence knew how to inflict this frightening handicap, as it was used as a terror tactic against the IRA. He was nineteen years old, and couldn't face life with no sensory feeling below his shoulders. Someone helped him on his way to the other side.

Do you think that you could live with such a handicap? Honestly?

Why not, Stephen Hawking does.

 

[Swagger]

Stephen Hawking's gifted mind ensures 'round-the-clock care and an academic standing that keeps his mind occupied. An uneducated 19-year-old man wouldn't be afforded the same level of dignity. He'd be consigned to the scrap heap of society.