Before Obama Egypt was an Ally. Now... not so much.

[Murf76]

These complete amateurs are now trying to walk it back:

White House clarifies Obama

They're so full of shit.
If you click the link in post #1 above, from Real Clear Politics, he CLEARLY wasn't talking about "mutual defense treaties". There's just no way to believe that, what with him mumbling on about "new government" and "see how they respond", etc.

 

[bobcollum]

Sorry. I missed your post. Internet connection going in and out today.

What I'm saying is that it's a small world. Isolationist policy will not work. We want trade. We want peace.

Now, it's true that time sometimes proves our decisions unwise, so I can't fault you there. But at its core, our foreign policy needs to achieve OUR goals. We are a good and decent people. And while we have a few bad apples as we see on the 11 o'clock news, our goals usually reflect our decency.

Our goals represent and reflect our interests, and nothing more. Saying that we're good and decent people means jack shit to those that see our actions reflect a different perspective than that.

Trade and peace are worthwhile goals, but our presence all over the middle east isn't doing anything to send a message that this is all we seek.

I just can't imagine another country acting like that on US soil, then after claiming they only want peace and trade, Americans would say, 'oh okay, now problem, do whatever you feel is best to attain your own interests, it doesn't matter if your actions don't fit the claim.'

Acting like what?

Acting like the self-righteous police of the world. Setting up bases, launching attacks from unmanned drones, chalking up the death of innocents as collateral damage, amongst other things.

Would Americans be okay with that if another nation said it wasn't as bad as it seems?

Should I assume you agreed with the rest of the lengthy post?

 

[Polk]

Please, explain to me how he was going to stop the overthrow of the Egyptian government.

 

[bobcollum]

Barack Obama's JOB is to attend to OUR interests, not the random interests of other nations. What did he achieve FOR America while he was out supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Bupkis, that's what.

What interest do we have in maintaining alliances with Egypt?

I have no interest in it, I couldn't care less.

Ok so when liberals like you were bashing Bush for losing "Allies" in the world, when we didnt lose any, yet Obama actually does and oh it doesnt matter now.......do liberals every practice consistancy? or is hypocrisy par for the course?

We lost what little respect we had from actual sovereign nations in the world during the last administration, and Obama hasn't done much to subside that sentiment. He tries to cloak it with kind words, but his actions are still that of a Neo-Conservative...par for the course.

I don't consider the countries that rely on our support for their own survival to have much relevance when discussing who thinks we're okay and who doesn't. Most of what's seen as respect towards the US amounts to people knowing their place in the food chain of nations.

You calling me a hypocrite is laughable.

 

[Murf76]

Our goals represent and reflect our interests, and nothing more. Saying that we're good and decent people means jack shit to those that see our actions reflect a different perspective than that.

Trade and peace are worthwhile goals, but our presence all over the middle east isn't doing anything to send a message that this is all we seek.

I just can't imagine another country acting like that on US soil, then after claiming they only want peace and trade, Americans would say, 'oh okay, now problem, do whatever you feel is best to attain your own interests, it doesn't matter if your actions don't fit the claim.'

Acting like what?

Acting like the self-righteous police of the world. Setting up bases, launching attacks from unmanned drones, chalking up the death of innocents as collateral damage, amongst other things.

Would Americans be okay with that if another nation said it wasn't as bad as it seems?

Should I assume you agreed with the rest of the lengthy post?

"The self-righteous police of the world"? Is that how you see it?
It's hard to comment on your entire post without knowing what your specific objections are.

 

[nitroz]

Well, we supported Egypt's revolution instead of supporting our ally who was killing people.

The end result is the muslim brotherhood being in control and making religiously biased decisions in accordance with islam.

Barack Obama's JOB is to attend to OUR interests, not the random interests of other nations. What did he achieve FOR America while he was out supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Bupkis, that's what.

And I agree. We shouldn't have helped them in the first place, because Islam will just hold it's negative effects.

 

[PredFan]

But but but! Obama made the whole world love us again? Right?

 

[Jackson]

But but but! Obama made the whole world love us again? Right?

How's that working out for ya, Mr. President?

 

[Polk]

Well, we supported Egypt's revolution instead of supporting our ally who was killing people.

The end result is the muslim brotherhood being in control and making religiously biased decisions in accordance with islam.

Barack Obama's JOB is to attend to OUR interests, not the random interests of other nations. What did he achieve FOR America while he was out supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Bupkis, that's what.

1. The fall of Mubarak was going to happen no matter which side we took. It made more sense to stand on our principles and attempt to shape the outcome than to pretend like Mubarak would remain in power forever.
2. The Muslim Brotherhood largely served as an umbrella for those opposed to Mubarak. There's nothing in particular about the organization that orients it as anti-Western (beyond opposing Western support for the Mubarak regime).
3. The actual significant threat to American interests in Egypt are groups like Al-Nour.

 

[Murf76]

Well, we supported Egypt's revolution instead of supporting our ally who was killing people.

The end result is the muslim brotherhood being in control and making religiously biased decisions in accordance with islam.

Barack Obama's JOB is to attend to OUR interests, not the random interests of other nations. What did he achieve FOR America while he was out supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Bupkis, that's what.

1. The fall of Mubarak was going to happen no matter which side we took. It made more sense to stand on our principles and attempt to shape the outcome than to pretend like Mubarak would remain in power forever.
2. The Muslim Brotherhood largely served as an umbrella for those opposed to Mubarak. There's nothing in particular about the organization that orients it as anti-Western (beyond opposing Western support for the Mubarak regime).
3. The actual significant threat to American interests in Egypt are groups like Al-Nour.

As many people have said... Jimmy Carter's mistake all over again. And to think we're seeing people arguing that it's not so. It's so. While they're weren't any really good choices, everybody knew that there weren't any secular political parties ready to roll. Obama should have supported Mubarak and bought time to put those parties together. THAT was what was in OUR best interest.

 

[Polk]

There isn't some magic spring out of which you can generate "secular" parties. I would also point out that same people bashing Obama for this were full supporters of Bush's "freedom agenda", which included pressing the Palestinian Authority to have elections that resulted in the secular Fatah being replaced by Hamas.

 

[Murf76]

There isn't some magic spring out of which you can generate "secular" parties. I would also point out that same people bashing Obama for this were full supporters of Bush's "freedom agenda", which included pressing the Palestinian Authority to have elections that resulted in the secular Fatah being replaced by Hamas.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Bush's mistakes don't excuse Obama's. And last time I checked, G.W. wasn't on the ballot. Obama KNEW, everyone knew, that there was no secular political force to pick up the slack if Mubarak went down. He encouraged Mubarak's overthrow anyway.

 

[Polk]

He "encouraged" an event that would have happened regardless of what he had done.

 

[Murf76]

He "encouraged" an event that would have happened regardless of what he had done.

There's no proof of that. It's not like dropping a vase whereby the force of gravity makes it crashing to the floor a sure bet.

 

[Polk]

He "encouraged" an event that would have happened regardless of what he had done.

There's no proof of that. It's not like dropping a vase whereby the force of gravity makes it crashing to the floor a sure bet.

You think Muburak would have been able to put down the protest if we had not said anything? The only way he would have been able to potential hold on to power would have been to open fire on the protesters, and there is no way we would have supported that.

 

[Murf76]

He "encouraged" an event that would have happened regardless of what he had done.

There's no proof of that. It's not like dropping a vase whereby the force of gravity makes it crashing to the floor a sure bet.

You think Muburak would have been able to put down the protest if we had not said anything? The only way he would have been able to potential hold on to power would have been to open fire on the protesters, and there is no way we would have supported that.

No way to know now. Obama chose the "Arab Spring".

 

[koshergrl]

""I don't think that we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy," Obama said. "They're a new government that is trying to find its way. They were democratically elected. I think that we are going to have to see how they respond to this incident."

"Egypt was designated as a Major Non-NATO Ally in 1989 when Congress first passed the law creating that status, which gives them special privileges in cooperating with the United States, especially in the security and technology areanas. "

What a moron. If only he would stop thinking out loud. Then we have proof of what a moron he really is.

"White House spokesman Tommy Vietor told The Cable Thursday that the administration is not signaling a change in that status. "

And of course the inevitable..."you don't understand the meaning of 'ally' ppl....":

" Vietor said. "‘Ally' is a legal term of art. We don't have a mutual defense treaty with Egypt like we do with our NATO allies."

Well done, Prez! You're going out with a bang! I've always said, if you're going to fail, make sure nobody can miss the immensity of your failure! If you go down, go down screaming!

White House clarifies Obama

 

[koshergrl]

Maybe if he'd gone to some of those pre-911 meetings he'd understand our relationships with these groups a little better.

Or maybe not.

 

[koshergrl]

Whoops I started another thread on this topic...

I had a better title, though. You guys should merge it under mine.

 

[Polk]

That's the entire point. It wasn't a choice. We were reacting to events on the ground as they occurred.