Before anyone else says anything more about assault weapons

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't. A gun is amoral, the person who fired the gun is immoral as is the NRA.

Yes I know it is the NRA's fault. Bravo again. You're on a roll of higher thought.

I'm not blaming the NRA, I simply state for the record the NRA is immoral. Understand, they oppose every effort to protect innocent citizens from gun violence. The cause of the carnage at Sandy Hook was the shooter. There are many other 'causes' but the primary or proximate cause is the shooter.

Secondary causes include the first victim who did not properly secure her guns; the failure of the state of Connecticut to fund a proactive mental health system and probably dozens of others. The NRA is one of the others. The NRA does so to support the gun industry and in recent statements have made it clear the gun industry is the what they will protect over and future first graders. Of this there is no doubt. That is (sadly) only one of the too many examples of why the NRA is an Immoral organization.

If the NRA is immoral than the ACLU is also, because they both take the stance that individual rights trump group security.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know what? An AK47 in a felons hands is still illegal. But its still an AK47

An AK47 is a machine gun, like an M16.

Distinguishing parts are not interchangeable with its semi-automatic clones.

The clones are not AK47's.

Much like the AR15 and M16.

An M-16 is not a machine gun.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Which shows that the tiny parts differences in the two are hard to even notice, BUT, one must be careful because you can interchange the parts and they'll work in each other.

Can't put (or at least drop in) a M16 full auto sear in an AR15.

It is the small part that makes it an M16 and determines its legal standing.

The fact that something is illegal does not make it impossible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

By all means, propose a measure that would actually prevent criminals from obtaining that which you hope to ban and that would NOT end up putting law abiding citizens at a disadvantage when facing armed thugs or crazy motherfuckers that couldn't care less about regulations.

The floor is yours.

- Commit a gun crime without projecting force = hard labor .....Cool Hand Luke Style.

- Commit a gun crime while projecting force and/or resulting in injury = Cool Hand Luke for life.

- Commit a gun crime resulting in death = Drip, Drip, Drip. Night. Night.

All after full due process.

Any person filling a prescription for any drug which has suicidal and/or homicidal ideation as a FDA known side effect gets a NO-GO straight into the NCIS from the pharmacy. You can come out if cleared by an impartial MRO.

Til then they can back the **** out of my life and gun safe.

Wonderful, we all know the death penalty actually stops people from killing by the fact that no one is ever murdered in death penalty states.

 

[PaulS1950]

Can't put (or at least drop in) a M16 full auto sear in an AR15.

It is the small part that makes it an M16 and determines its legal standing.

The fact that something is illegal does not make it impossible.[/QUOTE]

The parts do not physically fit. That is what makes it impossible. The Australians made bolt action rifles into fully auto rifles during the second world war so I guess in that sense anything is possible.

 

[MeBelle]

Ok then. Explain. Im waiting. Because I KNOW FOR SURE, 100% sure, I can take the upper half of an M16 assault rifle, slap it on the lower half of an AR15, mix up the mags and ammo for both and pick a random mag and random 30 rounds, and it'll work like a charm and fire just fine. And vice versa with AR15 upper/M16 lower. I know because I've done it. Lots of people have.

So, what exactly is the difference?

I think what you're not understanding is the fact that it is the lower that defines an AR-15, and the lower that defines the M-16. The rest of the rifle is irrelevant. You take that M-16lower, put any stock and any upper on it, and it's an M-16. You take that AR-15 lower, put on whatever stock and upper, and you have an AR-15. The design of the lower is what makes the weapon semi automatic, or capable of automatic fire. So you're right, you can mix and match all those other parts interchangably. But the components that make the firearm an AR-15 are in the reciever, and THOSE parts cannot be changed out with the parts of an M-16 reciever.

^^^^ Winner winner, chicken dinner!^^^^


Semi-automatic AR-15s for sale to civilians are internally different from the full automatic M-16, although nearly identical in external appearance. The hammer and trigger mechanisms are of a different design. The bolt carrier and internal lower receiver of semi-automatic versions are milled differently, so that the firing mechanisms are not interchangeable.

 

[MeBelle]

Armalite is the name of a company. Which, btw, makes an AR-10, a badass weapon.

Armalite sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt.
Unless your badass weapon is circa 1959...

 

[mudwhistle]

An AR15 is a shorter, semi-auto version of the full-auto M16. Basically an M16 for civilians...but with a different name.

And for a bonus 10 points....who can tell us what the "AR" in AR-15 stands for????

ArmaLite-15 which is a shorter version of the M-16 assault rifle.

ArmaLite Inc was the original manufacturer of the AR-15 but the Army gave it to Colt which makes now makes the CAR-15 series and the M4 carbine.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You may call the gun used to kill 20 first graders anything you like and the result remains the same.

What do you call the man who killed 20 first graders ?

Psychotic.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I can take every part out of that M16, and AR15, and they are interchangable.

Wrong yet again.

Ok Rambo. Explain it to me then. Im sure there will be some miniscule little part or rod that you say is different.

The upper on each will fire on the lower of the other. The mags for each work with the other. The ammo for each works with the other. The bolt. Bolt carrier. All work with the other. Handguards are interchangable. Stocks are interchangeable.

Im actually interested in hearing exactly what makes the "assault rifle" different from the AR15.

BTW, know why the APD swat team disabled the full auto on those Dept of Defense surplus M16's? Because in their opinion (almost all ex military guys) in CQB it is far more efficient to use semi-auto and have better shot selection. More "hits" per bullet ratio, less wasted shots. A more effective killing machine in a close quarters environment. Imagine that.

Biggest one is the sear: the select-fire M16 and the single-shot AR15 use a different sear. While the AR sear may fit an M16 (I don't know), the M16 sear (aka, an "auto sear") will NOT fit an AR15 without machine work.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You know what? An AK47 in a felons hands is still illegal. But its still an AK47

An AK47 is a machine gun, like an M16.

Distinguishing parts are not interchangeable with its semi-automatic clones.

The clones are not AK47's.

Much like the AR15 and M16.

An M-16 is not a machine gun.

Yes, it is, legally.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nutters,

You are on the wrong side of this issue. How about breaking character and not digging your heels in this time around. I know it is hard for you.......as you are all so comfortable being on the wrong side of issues. But let's do the right thing. Gun violence is not good for business.

Look, I really don't understand what you're getting at in this gun control discussion. You keep making "oh pity, woe is us" statements. You want something to be done about gun violence, I get that. But you're not saying much of anything, otherwise.

I realize that not every poster reads every post here....even within a thread that they are heavily involved in....so I will forgive this " you're not saying much of anything " BS. The thinking members of this forum, myself included, have outlined what we mean by sensible firearms legislation over and over again. Yet, those of you who never get beyond the point of reacting pretend that you never read any of it.

One difference between a sane, thinking person and an insane or stupid person is that the former quickly tires of saying the same thing several times. The latter, on the other hand, believes that chasing someone away by boring them to death ........with shit like a discussion of the inner workings of an automatic versus a semi-automatic weapon.......is some kind of victory.

Because I do not think YOU are insane nor stupid, I will dig deep and propose the following again:

Sensible firearms regulation, in my opinion, takes the following into account:

Americans citizens have a right to purchase and own firearms. A right that requires regulation in the interest of public safety and improving our quality of life.

The 2nd amendment is subject to legal interpretation....which in turn....is subject to the fact that times change. When the circumstances that we find ourselves in change dramatically, it is not a bad thing to take that into account when administering our laws.

Providing for the national defense via a well regulated militia is still a viable goal. To that end, those people desirous of possessing assault weapons can do so. But they should be required to do things like this:

-register them
-have biometric locks on them
-refrain from selling them or giving them away
-store them at the range
-get licensed
-undergo continuous training to keep the license
-have a background check and a mental health evaluation.

In the event that our nation is invaded, there will be laws that will allow those Rambo's to get their weapons so they can go out and shoot the enemy. If they live on the beach where the enemy lands.....and don't have time to go get the weapon at the range......too bad, so sad.

The idea that the 2nd amendment is supposed to make civil war easier is retarded.

An acceptance that assault weapons are, for the most part, a form of entertainment for gun enthusiasts. We should stop pretending that the USC gives us the right to be entertained.

An assault weapon is a firearm that can kill lots of people in a short amount of time. It makes it possible for a psychopath to get off a lot of rounds before the innocent people he is shooting at can get the **** out of dodge. To me, that means semi-automatic........rifle, handgun, whatever.

The idea that we would ever need more than a half dozen bullets loaded into our weapon in order to defend ourselves from a home invasion is ******* retarded.

A realization that....unlike all the other things that Americans love that can and do end up killing people......firearms are designed to do this. They, therefore, need to be placed in their own category when we discuss regulating them. Common sense.

OK.....that is enough for now. Have a party.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You know what? An AK47 in a felons hands is still illegal. But its still an AK47

An AK47 is a machine gun, like an M16.

Distinguishing parts are not interchangeable with its semi-automatic clones.

The clones are not AK47's.

Much like the AR15 and M16.

An M-16 is not a machine gun.

Yes it is by Federal law.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Wonderful, we all know the death penalty actually stops people from killing by the fact that no one is ever murdered in death penalty states.

The death penalty stops executed people from murdering.

 

[hjmick]

Nutters,

You are on the wrong side of this issue. How about breaking character and not digging your heels in this time around. I know it is hard for you.......as you are all so comfortable being on the wrong side of issues. But let's do the right thing. Gun violence is not good for business.

By all means, propose a measure that would actually prevent criminals from obtaining that which you hope to ban and that would NOT end up putting law abiding citizens at a disadvantage when facing armed thugs or crazy motherfuckers that couldn't care less about regulations.

The floor is yours.

That has been done. Get on the right side of the issue. Those of us who are on the right side will not go away.....and we won't keep repeating ourselves to the point of tedium.

And yet that's all you seem to be doing...

 

[OODA_Loop]

they should be required to do things like this:

-register them
-have biometric locks on them
-refrain from selling them or giving them away
-store them at the range
-get licensed
-undergo continuous training to keep the license
-have a background check and a mental health evaluation.

I'm not sure a license, registration, a "biometric lock", a background check and mental evaluation to keep and store them at the range is enough.


Will the range have multiple bio-metrically controlled doors like the intro of Get Smart to make it super duper safe ?

 

[LoneLaugher]

By all means, propose a measure that would actually prevent criminals from obtaining that which you hope to ban and that would NOT end up putting law abiding citizens at a disadvantage when facing armed thugs or crazy motherfuckers that couldn't care less about regulations.

The floor is yours.

That has been done. Get on the right side of the issue. Those of us who are on the right side will not go away.....and we won't keep repeating ourselves to the point of tedium.

And yet that's all you seem to be doing...

Well....I'll have to agree with you on that. The desire of people who "get it" to try and help out those who do not is fairly strong. It is, indeed, tedious trying to hammer the message into your thick skulls. Even though we lose a little dignity with every attempt, we consider it a civic duty of sorts. It is the curse that comes with intelligence and the ability to employ reason.

 

[LoneLaugher]

they should be required to do things like this:

-register them
-have biometric locks on them
-refrain from selling them or giving them away
-store them at the range
-get licensed
-undergo continuous training to keep the license
-have a background check and a mental health evaluation.

I'm not sure a license, registration, a "biometric lock", a background check and mental evaluation to keep and store them at the range is enough.


Will the range have multiple bio-metrically controlled doors like the intro of Get Smart to make it super duper safe ?

Nutters.....you have to admire their persistent attempts to be funny in the face of so many failures.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Nutters.....you have to admire their persistent attempts to be funny in the face of so many failures.

No failure here. We're still armed and recently locked in by SCOTUS and incorporated to the States.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nutters.....you have to admire their persistent attempts to be funny in the face of so many failures.

No failure here. We're still armed and recently locked in by SCOTUS and incorporated to the States.

Well..I guess if ya can't be funny....you can always say something that makes no sense to get others to laugh at you. Well done, funny man.