BBC In Cahoots With Climategate Scientists

[westwall]

Some people will die from it, actually. And man-caused change is rapid, and it is new.

Really? Prove it. Just provide ONE empirical study that supports your cultist nonsense. Just one. We can show empiricaly that nothing occuring now is new. We can show unequivocally that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature (and that by HUNDREDS of years), we can also show that nothing the alarmists have predicted has occured.

Well that is if you discount when they predict warming and cooling of course. When you predict both sides you can never lose. It's a shame you can't place money bets that way, just think how rich you could get!

 

[westwall]

Missing the point by a mile. We aren't just talking about you and me. Humans are threatened by global warming. Of course it's a bigger danger to folks in the Third World, and they aren't all that important, are they?

Yeah, that's their claim so that they can steal billions from the First world instead of actually having to work for it. And then there's the simple fact that cold kills orders of magnitude more people then heat does. In the UK alone it has been calculated that 40,000MORE people die PER month during winter time.

 

[SAT2]

Some people will die from it, actually. And man-caused change is rapid, and it is new.

Really? Prove it. Just provide ONE empirical study that supports your cultist nonsense. Just one. We can show empiricaly that nothing occuring now is new. We can show unequivocally that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature (and that by HUNDREDS of years), we can also show that nothing the alarmists have predicted has occured.

Well that is if you discount when they predict warming and cooling of course. When you predict both sides you can never lose. It's a shame you can't place money bets that way, just think how rich you could get!

I already did that, and Old Rocks did that.

There are many empirical studies that show just that.

There are empirical studies showing that it's not natural CO2.

That the climate changes is not the point.

The point is that human activity is rapidly changing the climate, and that is going to be a problem for people.

Even the US military is war gaming it.

The cultist is you.

 

[paulitician]

Missing the point by a mile. We aren't just talking about you and me. Humans are threatened by global warming. Of course it's a bigger danger to folks in the Third World, and they aren't all that important, are they?

Don't go there. That's just weak and predictable. Obviously people care about people in the Third World. Your assertion is both pompous and weak-minded. Global Warming has been way over-hyped and fear mongered enough. It is mainly a Left Wing Socialist political Movement. The debate has now been reduced to fear tactics and junk science.

The Planet warms,the Planet cools and that's the way it has always been. If it is real,the human race will just have to adapt to changes just like their ancestors had to. If they don't adapt,they'll die. Such is life on Planet Earth. But it's still nothing to panic over. Life really is very short. I suggest you quit worrying about Global Warming and start living.

 

[SAT2]

Missing the point by a mile. We aren't just talking about you and me. Humans are threatened by global warming. Of course it's a bigger danger to folks in the Third World, and they aren't all that important, are they?

Don't go there. That's just weak and predictable. Obviously people care about people in the Third World. Your assertion is both pompous and weak-minded. Global Warming has been way over-hyped and fear mongered enough. It is mainly a Left Wing Socialist political Movement. The debate has now been reduced to fear tactics and junk science.

The Planet warms,the Planet cools and that's the way it has always been. If it is real,the human race will just have to adapt to changes just like their ancestors had to. If they don't adapt,they'll die. Such is life on Planet Earth. But it's still nothing to panic over. Life really is very short. I suggest you quit worrying about Global Warming and start living.

No, it's a scientific reality, understood by the rest of the world, who gape in awe the folks here in the US who embrace stupidity.

Factually speaking, it's been UNDER addressed. And looking at where it will impact most, and the reaction from the right, to accuse them of not caring about poor people is obvious-your wordy attempts at diversion non-withstanding. Your cute schtick about our life span is worn out. As we all realize that people care not only about their own health, but the health of future generations, your greeting card philosophy is tiresome.

Forest fires are caused by natural causes, and by accidents, and by human arsonists. To pretend that because the earth can naturally warm and cool, it cannot artificially warm and cool, is silly.

 

[bripat9643]

Some people will die from it, actually. And man-caused change is rapid, and it is new.

Really? Prove it. Just provide ONE empirical study that supports your cultist nonsense. Just one. We can show empiricaly that nothing occuring now is new. We can show unequivocally that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature (and that by HUNDREDS of years), we can also show that nothing the alarmists have predicted has occured.

Well that is if you discount when they predict warming and cooling of course. When you predict both sides you can never lose. It's a shame you can't place money bets that way, just think how rich you could get!

The warmists never predict diddly squat correctly. They have 20/20 hindsight. After a weather event as occurred they always say "see, we told you so!" But if you look at the what they actually said before the event, it bares no resemblance to what actually happened.

 

[westwall]

Some people will die from it, actually. And man-caused change is rapid, and it is new.

Really? Prove it. Just provide ONE empirical study that supports your cultist nonsense. Just one. We can show empiricaly that nothing occuring now is new. We can show unequivocally that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature (and that by HUNDREDS of years), we can also show that nothing the alarmists have predicted has occured.

Well that is if you discount when they predict warming and cooling of course. When you predict both sides you can never lose. It's a shame you can't place money bets that way, just think how rich you could get!

I already did that, and Old Rocks did that.

There are many empirical studies that show just that.

There are empirical studies showing that it's not natural CO2.

That the climate changes is not the point.

The point is that human activity is rapidly changing the climate, and that is going to be a problem for people.

Even the US military is war gaming it.

The cultist is you.

No, you havn't. The studies you guys allways link to are computer models. There was one study that olfraud linked to that was a study of a computer model studying a computer model! That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen but that is the state of your "science".

Once again feel free to say whatever crapola you wish to say, it doesn't matter anymore. Your cult is toast when emails like this from the inner circle got out (and there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE!) your goose was cooked. It's only a matter of time.

In any case, if the sulfate hypothesis is right, then your prediction of warming might end up being wrong. I think we have been too readily explaining the slow changes over past decade as a result of variability--that explanation is wearing thin. I would just suggest, as a backup to your prediction, that you also do some checking on the sulfate issue, just so you might have a quantified explanation in case the prediction is wrong. Otherwise, the Skeptics will be all over us--the world is really cooling, the models are no good, etc. And all this just as the US is about ready to get serious on the issue.

We all, and you all in particular, need to be prepared.

Best, Mike MacCracken

 

[SAT2]

‘Climate models are unproven’—Actually, GCM’s have many confirmed successes under their belts | How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: Responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming | Grist

 

[westwall]

‘Climate models are unproven’—Actually, GCM’s have many confirmed successes under their belts | How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: Responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming | Grist

Screw Grist, here's a scientists opinion from the inner circle, you know the guys that Grist quotes...

In any case, if the sulfate hypothesis is right, then your prediction of warming might end up being wrong. I think we have been too readily explaining the slow changes over past decade as a result of variability--that explanation is wearing thin. I would just suggest, as a backup to your prediction, that you also do some checking on the sulfate issue, just so you might have a quantified explanation in case the prediction is wrong. Otherwise, the Skeptics will be all over us--the world is really cooling, the models are no good, etc. And all this just as the US is about ready to get serious on the issue.
We all, and you all in particular, need to be prepared.

Best, Mike MacCracken

 

[SAT2]

 

[paulitician]

Missing the point by a mile. We aren't just talking about you and me. Humans are threatened by global warming. Of course it's a bigger danger to folks in the Third World, and they aren't all that important, are they?

Don't go there. That's just weak and predictable. Obviously people care about people in the Third World. Your assertion is both pompous and weak-minded. Global Warming has been way over-hyped and fear mongered enough. It is mainly a Left Wing Socialist political Movement. The debate has now been reduced to fear tactics and junk science.

The Planet warms,the Planet cools and that's the way it has always been. If it is real,the human race will just have to adapt to changes just like their ancestors had to. If they don't adapt,they'll die. Such is life on Planet Earth. But it's still nothing to panic over. Life really is very short. I suggest you quit worrying about Global Warming and start living.

No, it's a scientific reality, understood by the rest of the world, who gape in awe the folks here in the US who embrace stupidity.

Factually speaking, it's been UNDER addressed. And looking at where it will impact most, and the reaction from the right, to accuse them of not caring about poor people is obvious-your wordy attempts at diversion non-withstanding. Your cute schtick about our life span is worn out. As we all realize that people care not only about their own health, but the health of future generations, your greeting card philosophy is tiresome.

Forest fires are caused by natural causes, and by accidents, and by human arsonists. To pretend that because the earth can naturally warm and cool, it cannot artificially warm and cool, is silly.

Sorry,but i'm just sick of all the hysterical fear mongering. And it is a political movement anyway. There's too much junk science involved. The Earth has been warming and cooling for 4.5 Billion years. And i don't see that changing any time soon. So,Climate Change? Yea sure why not? Nothing shocking about that. Are we all gonna die tomorrow because of it? No of course not. It has become alarmist propaganda. Enough is enough. Our ancestors adapted and so will we. So just live and try to enjoy your short time here. Take care.

 

[westwall]

Or how about this one? You see dear child, you can try and hold your fingers in your ears and go "lalalala" but the rest of the world has allready passed you by. You're a dinosaur and you don't even relise it yet. And that is truly sad.

date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:29:55 +0000
from: Tim Osborn <t.osborn@uea.ac.uk>
subject: SOAP - good news!!
to: k.briffa@uea.ac.uk,t.osborn@uea.ac.uk,s.raper@uea.ac.uk, simon.tett@metoffice.com,jonathan.gregory@metoffice.com,cubasch@dkrz.de, schnur@dkrz.de,hans.von.storch@gkss.de,jones@gkss.de, Joel.Guiot@lbhp.u-3mrs.fr,juerg@giub.unibe.ch,wanner@giub.unibe.ch, plao@geo.vu.nl,sandy.tudhope@ed.ac.uk,rob.allan@metoffice.com

<x-flowed>
Dear all,

great news about SOAP - we've got an excellent score (92%) in the
evaluator's report. The letter that we received today is attached to this
email. We now wait for an invitation to begin contract negotiations. Some
comments from Keith follow...

>Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:38:17 +0000
>From: Keith Briffa <k.briffa@uea.ac.uk>
>
>The initial scores and remarks are very positive so it is clear that we
>were lucky this time to get sympathetic referees. Even though I truly
>believe EC proposals are much of a lottery , it seems we got the balance
>between realism and hype about right.
>The only real fly in the ointment is the remark about the sea level (WP5)
>i.e. that it "is not needed"! We will not concede this without a fight. I
>think it is possible to argue strongly for its inclusion -
>on the basis of 1,scientific value/public concern 2, timeliness and
>efficiency (given current work such as HOLSMEER , and ongoing synergy
>with work underway such as at the Hadley Centre), and 3, associated value
>for money and leveraging of results for limited funding that arise out of
>1 and 2.
>Partner 4 please see the remarks relating to your costs, and comment please.
>At this point my intention would be to go into contract negotiations
>intending to hold out for NO REDUCTION in the award. While nothing is
>certain , this overall mark must strongly suggest we have a reasonable
>case on the basis of scientific merit and cost effectiveness . At the
>moment though, we can all reasonably allow ourselves some muted congratulation.
>
>--
>Professor Keith Briffa,
>Climatic Research Unit
>University of East Anglia
>Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K.
>
>Phone: +44-1603-593909
>Fax: +44-1603-507784
>
>Keith Briffa

 

[SAT2]

Sorry,but i'm just sick of all the hysterical fear mongering. And it is a political movement anyway. There's too much junk science involved. The Earth has been warming and cooling for 4.5 Billion years. And i don't see that changing any time soon. So,Climate Change? Yea sure why not? Nothing shocking about that. Are we all gonna die tomorrow because of it? No of course not. It has become alarmist propaganda. Enough is enough. Our ancestors adapted and so will we. So just live and try to enjoy your short time here. Take care.

Well, no, not on this end. On this end, it's science, not politics. On your end, it's a script from Fox News.

 

[SAT2]

Or how about this one? You see dear child, you can try and hold your fingers in your ears and go "lalalala" but the rest of the world has allready passed you by.

That would be true of you. Not of me.

It is the third formal inquiry to clear scientists involved in the scandal, which publicized more than 1,000 private e-mails from scientists expressing doubts about their data, refusing to share information and questioning the work of others.

Climategate Scientist Cleared in Inquiry, Again: Scientific American

 

[westwall]

Or how about this one? You see dear child, you can try and hold your fingers in your ears and go "lalalala" but the rest of the world has allready passed you by.

That would be true of you. Not of me.

It is the third formal inquiry to clear scientists involved in the scandal, which publicized more than 1,000 private e-mails from scientists expressing doubts about their data, refusing to share information and questioning the work of others.

Climategate Scientist Cleared in Inquiry, Again: Scientific American

Yes it's easy to be cleared when you are judge, jury and prosecutor. So sad for you the regular people can see through your BS and have abandoned your religion en masse.

Hooray for smart people!

 

[SAT2]

And this is why I posted the tinfoil hat.

Nothing can dissuade you from your belief that this is a massive, world-wide conspiracy, and that everything down to the weather stations are in on it.

 

[westwall]

And this is why I posted the tinfoil hat.

Nothing can dissuade you from your belief that this is a massive, world-wide conspiracy, and that everything down to the weather stations are in on it.

Not massive at all. Were you conversant with academia you would realise that a very small number of people control a very large proportion of the scientific journals out there. Especially in the climatology world.

But, no worries! You can choose to remain a willing puppet for the fraudulent cultists, but the rest of the world filled with thinking people have left you in the dust. Enjoy the crickets,
soon they will be all that are listening to the likes of you.

 

[Dragon]

Not only the entire scientific community, but the major media as well. Damn, that's one hell of a conspiracy!

In fact, I'd say it would probably be easier to define this conspiracy in terms of who is NOT a part of it. Just make a list of the innocent, and everyone else is in on the scam.

 

[bripat9643]

Not only the entire scientific community, but the major media as well. Damn, that's one hell of a conspiracy!

In fact, I'd say it would probably be easier to define this conspiracy in terms of who is NOT a part of it. Just make a list of the innocent, and everyone else is in on the scam.

Oh please. The fact that a gang of paid-off hacks sucking on the government tit all have the same vested interest in perpetrating a fraud is hardly incredible. This kind of thing has been going on ever since the Wilson administration.

 

[Dragon]

Oh please. The fact that a gang of paid of hacks sucking on the government tit all have the same vested interest in perpetrating a fraud is hardly incredible. This has kind of thing has been going on ever since the Wilson administration.

A conspiracy theory becomes less credible in proportion to the number of participants necessary to make the conspiracy work. That's why a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy consisting of Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, at least one person high in the U.S. government, and no more than one or two others is believable, but a conspiracy to bring about one world government consisting of the entire membership of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the staff of the Federal Reserve and World Bank, and the controlling interests of media corporations, big banks, and academia is not -- and yet even THAT pales beside what you're suggesting here.

And no, common motivation is NOT sufficient. You are alleging coordinated dishonesty on a massive scale. And that's setting aside the fact that your understanding of the motivations of most scientists is completely and amazingly ignorant.

What I see in this whole "climategate" nonsense is a fallback position, resorted to after it was necessary to give up on "the earth isn't really warming," "humans aren't responsible for it," and "it will be good for us." The only consistent theme in the entire denialist symphony is the purpose of it all: to protect the profits of the fossil-fuel industry.