Banned for life

[Quantum Windbag]

Bullshit QW, read the article

I did read the article, and watched the videos, and listened to the recordings.



The guy who is actually in charge of security for the whole line, not the idiot in charge of a private security force, told him the guidelines for photography. He also explained that Florida law said that photography is legal and legit, and only asked that any commercial photography be cleared first. He even pointed out that they are willing to shut down the whole freaking line to accommodate commercial filming. Since he is the person who is ultimately responsible for both safety and making sure he that the transit system complies with the law I am pretty sure he got it right.

After several phone calls that were never returned, yesterday morning at about 11:30 I finally made contact with the company’s president, John Williams. His interpretation of “30b” and his willingness to trust MDT passengers when they tell his security guards why they’re making pictures was as different from Mr. Muntan’s as day is from night… as fire is from ice… as love is from hate… as steak is from eggs… um, well, you get the picture.

Mr. Williams stated, “All we would know is what you tell us and we would not stand by that. We would ask you to identify yourself and if you didn’t have a permit we would ask you to leave. In fact… you would have to leave or we would notify law enforcement of the situation. We would need approval from the county, a form that the county provides us.” He went on to say that anyone who does not have that form would be prevented from making photographs on MDT property.

Hmmm… a conundrum…

After speaking with Mr. Williams, it seemed to me that the only way to get to the bottom of the situation and to really understand what rights a MDT passenger has or does not have with regard to photography was to head to a nearby metro station, make some photos, and see what would happen.

Though I hoped to make photographs in and around the Douglas Road metro stop to send to my lovely wife in Richmond and to use in my report, and to then be on my merry way, I prepared for the worst. If Mr. Williams’ people were trained as he said they were, rather than as Mr. Muntan said they should be, then there was a decent chance that I would be arrested while making my pictures and go to jail. So I took a few precautions:


The President of the company told him , if you don't have a permit the police will be called, he chose to test that. He found out that the President of the company was correct

As for why they have the policy, it should be obvious to you.

The president of that company is an idiot. If you read the article and followed the links you will see that the previous security company, Wackenhut, got fired for doing exactly what he said would happen. You think that that fact would make a difference when the new security company, but they are apparently to stupid to understand that the law takes precedence over their petty rules. You seem to have that in common with them.

Do I understand their concerns? Yes, but I don't care, because the rights of the people and the law trump their concerns.

EVERY
SINGLE
TIME

You are correct. My right to feel safe trumps that fucking assholes right to challenge a policy that anyone with a brain knows has been in place since 9/12/2001. Don't like it? Too fucking bad, what is with everyone having to challenge everything? Go get a fucking permit, take less than an hour I bet. This moron KNEW he was probably going to be arrested.

The policy does not exist outside of the heads of the wannabe cops and people like you. It is legal to take photographs, and LEOs cannot stop you from not breaking the law.

 

[ConHog]

I did read the article, and watched the videos, and listened to the recordings.



The guy who is actually in charge of security for the whole line, not the idiot in charge of a private security force, told him the guidelines for photography. He also explained that Florida law said that photography is legal and legit, and only asked that any commercial photography be cleared first. He even pointed out that they are willing to shut down the whole freaking line to accommodate commercial filming. Since he is the person who is ultimately responsible for both safety and making sure he that the transit system complies with the law I am pretty sure he got it right.




The president of that company is an idiot. If you read the article and followed the links you will see that the previous security company, Wackenhut, got fired for doing exactly what he said would happen. You think that that fact would make a difference when the new security company, but they are apparently to stupid to understand that the law takes precedence over their petty rules. You seem to have that in common with them.

Do I understand their concerns? Yes, but I don't care, because the rights of the people and the law trump their concerns.

EVERY
SINGLE
TIME

You are correct. My right to feel safe trumps that fucking assholes right to challenge a policy that anyone with a brain knows has been in place since 9/12/2001. Don't like it? Too fucking bad, what is with everyone having to challenge everything? Go get a fucking permit, take less than an hour I bet. This moron KNEW he was probably going to be arrested.

The policy does not exist outside of the heads of the wannabe cops and people like you. It is legal to take photographs, and LEOs cannot stop you from not breaking the law.

(2)

Commercial photography or recording. No person, unless authorized in writing by MDTA or the County Manager when appropriate under Section 2-11.14 of this Code, shall take still, motion, or sound motion pictures or sound records or recordings of voices or otherwise for commercial, training or educational purposes, other than news coverage anywhere in the transit system.

Oops, guess he did break the law

 

[ConHog]

Hey QW, where you go?

 

[George Costanza]

I truly wish they would give indemnity to LEO from being sued for any action. Let some people start getting the shit beat out of them for fighting back and shit for awhile. Bet it would stop.

I think they tried that for a while in Germany back in the late 1930's and early 1940's, didn't they?

 

[George Costanza]

The guy asked twice if he was being detained. The police officer only said "I'm asking you for your ID". She was out of bounds. Once you ask if you are being detained, they have to answer the question, if they don't, you have the right to walk away, ask any lawyer.

That's true. But he didn't walk away, did he? Why not? Because he had a not-so-hidden agenda. That's about all I am going to say on the side of law enforcement in this case. There's not much else I can say, because these cretins were totally out of line.

Tyranny never comes to your door unless it's wearing a badge.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

(2)

Commercial photography or recording. No person, unless authorized in writing by MDTA or the County Manager when appropriate under Section 2-11.14 of this Code, shall take still, motion, or sound motion pictures or sound records or recordings of voices or otherwise for commercial, training or educational purposes, other than news coverage anywhere in the transit system.

Oops, guess he did break the law

The always right and infinitely wise wannabe cops said it was because of terrorism, which is an outright lie.

Additionally, neither man was their for educational purposes, unless you count informing the public as education. Most people call that journalism though. One guy was doing a class assignment about the first amendment, which gives everyone the right to take pictures, and the was a reporter filming him for his own purposes.

The pictures the student was taking were not for educational purposes, they were incidental to his assignment and would not be part of it. The pictures were not for educational purposes, the exploration of an individuals right to take pictures was. Unless you think it is possible to explore that topic with a drawing pad instead of a camera you will see be able to see, and understand, the difference.

Then they actually stopped a journalist from taking pictures, and told him he could not ever ride the train, which directly contradicts the law you cited, which states that news coverage is always permitted. Or did that little detail escape your notice in a blind attempt to defend LEOs regardless of them being wrong.

Why don't you just admit that LEOs are not infallible, and that private cops are idiots when they try to enforce a law that does not exist.

By the way, I didn't insult you, which just proves how wrong you are in this discussion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The guy asked twice if he was being detained. The police officer only said "I'm asking you for your ID". She was out of bounds. Once you ask if you are being detained, they have to answer the question, if they don't, you have the right to walk away, ask any lawyer.

That's true. But he didn't walk away, did he? Why not? Because he had a not-so-hidden agenda. That's about all I am going to say on the side of law enforcement in this case. There's not much else I can say, because these cretins were totally out of line.

Tyranny never comes to your door unless it's wearing a badge.

They admit they had an agenda, kind of like the agenda that the civil rights protesters had back in the 60s.

 

[ConHog]

The guy asked twice if he was being detained. The police officer only said "I'm asking you for your ID". She was out of bounds. Once you ask if you are being detained, they have to answer the question, if they don't, you have the right to walk away, ask any lawyer.

That's true. But he didn't walk away, did he? Why not? Because he had a not-so-hidden agenda. That's about all I am going to say on the side of law enforcement in this case. There's not much else I can say, because these cretins were totally out of line.

Tyranny never comes to your door unless it's wearing a badge.

George, you're better than you post sometimes. You KNOW what these guys were about and that they were wrong. The LEO were not in the wrong. They didn't touch anyone or anything close to that.

 

[ConHog]

(2)

Commercial photography or recording. No person, unless authorized in writing by MDTA or the County Manager when appropriate under Section 2-11.14 of this Code, shall take still, motion, or sound motion pictures or sound records or recordings of voices or otherwise for commercial, training or educational purposes, other than news coverage anywhere in the transit system.

Oops, guess he did break the law

The always right and infinitely wise wannabe cops said it was because of terrorism, which is an outright lie.

Additionally, neither man was their for educational purposes, unless you count informing the public as education. Most people call that journalism though. One guy was doing a class assignment about the first amendment, which gives everyone the right to take pictures, and the was a reporter filming him for his own purposes.

The pictures the student was taking were not for educational purposes, they were incidental to his assignment and would not be part of it. The pictures were not for educational purposes, the exploration of an individuals right to take pictures was. Unless you think it is possible to explore that topic with a drawing pad instead of a camera you will see be able to see, and understand, the difference.

Then they actually stopped a journalist from taking pictures, and told him he could not ever ride the train, which directly contradicts the law you cited, which states that news coverage is always permitted. Or did that little detail escape your notice in a blind attempt to defend LEOs regardless of them being wrong.

Why don't you just admit that LEOs are not infallible, and that private cops are idiots when they try to enforce a law that does not exist.

By the way, I didn't insult you, which just proves how wrong you are in this discussion.

QW you and I both know exactly why those guys were there. People like that need the shit beat out of them. There is no reason to just fuck with LEO to prove a point. It's stupid and unnecessary. Oh big deal , you're not allowed to take pictures inside a train station, get over it.

 

[George Costanza]

The guy asked twice if he was being detained. The police officer only said "I'm asking you for your ID". She was out of bounds. Once you ask if you are being detained, they have to answer the question, if they don't, you have the right to walk away, ask any lawyer.

That's true. But he didn't walk away, did he? Why not? Because he had a not-so-hidden agenda. That's about all I am going to say on the side of law enforcement in this case. There's not much else I can say, because these cretins were totally out of line.

Tyranny never comes to your door unless it's wearing a badge.

George, you're better than you post sometimes. You KNOW what these guys were about and that they were wrong. The LEO were not in the wrong. They didn't touch anyone or anything close to that.

What it looks to me what these guys were about, was to prove that, on occasion, police have no qualms whatsoever about misinterpreting the law, trampling all over the rights of citizens and looking like rude, overbearing bullies in the process. Seems to me they accomplished their mission rather well here.

The guys were not wrong at all. The cops clearly were. Sorry, CH - that's the way I see it.

 

[George Costanza]

The guy asked twice if he was being detained. The police officer only said "I'm asking you for your ID". She was out of bounds. Once you ask if you are being detained, they have to answer the question, if they don't, you have the right to walk away, ask any lawyer.

That's true. But he didn't walk away, did he? Why not? Because he had a not-so-hidden agenda. That's about all I am going to say on the side of law enforcement in this case. There's not much else I can say, because these cretins were totally out of line.

Tyranny never comes to your door unless it's wearing a badge.

They admit they had an agenda, kind of like the agenda that the civil rights protesters had back in the 60s.

Absolutely.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

(2)

Commercial photography or recording. No person, unless authorized in writing by MDTA or the County Manager when appropriate under Section 2-11.14 of this Code, shall take still, motion, or sound motion pictures or sound records or recordings of voices or otherwise for commercial, training or educational purposes, other than news coverage anywhere in the transit system.

Oops, guess he did break the law

The always right and infinitely wise wannabe cops said it was because of terrorism, which is an outright lie.

Additionally, neither man was their for educational purposes, unless you count informing the public as education. Most people call that journalism though. One guy was doing a class assignment about the first amendment, which gives everyone the right to take pictures, and the was a reporter filming him for his own purposes.

The pictures the student was taking were not for educational purposes, they were incidental to his assignment and would not be part of it. The pictures were not for educational purposes, the exploration of an individuals right to take pictures was. Unless you think it is possible to explore that topic with a drawing pad instead of a camera you will see be able to see, and understand, the difference.

Then they actually stopped a journalist from taking pictures, and told him he could not ever ride the train, which directly contradicts the law you cited, which states that news coverage is always permitted. Or did that little detail escape your notice in a blind attempt to defend LEOs regardless of them being wrong.

Why don't you just admit that LEOs are not infallible, and that private cops are idiots when they try to enforce a law that does not exist.

By the way, I didn't insult you, which just proves how wrong you are in this discussion.

QW you and I both know exactly why those guys were there. People like that need the shit beat out of them. There is no reason to just fuck with LEO to prove a point. It's stupid and unnecessary. Oh big deal , you're not allowed to take pictures inside a train station, get over it.

That is exactly the attitude that LEOs have, and why we need guys like these, because any LEO that believes anyone needs to have an ass beating should not be a LEO.

 

[syrenn]

That is exactly the attitude that LEOs have, and why we need guys like these, because any LEO that believes anyone needs to have an ass beating should not be a LEO.

Anger management is a problem.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Police acted in a professional manner. The fact that even after 2 or three different supervisors explained to these clowns that they were not to take pictures inside the station, and they were still uncooperative , simply shows me they were out after their 15 minutes of glory.

And again the Police were professional, the clowns were assholes.

And that's the way I see it.

 

[CMike]

I agree with the police.

Someone taking pictures of a rail system can easily be seen as a terrorist figuring out where to plant bombs .

 

[ConHog]

George, once again you are letting your lawyer guise take over. I showed you right in the law where it says pictures can not be taken for educational purposes. I would say that taking pictures for a class clearly falls under that part of the statute.

You also can't deny that an LEO is not doing anything wrong if they ask you a million times for your ID. Also, by the statute the MDT can ask you to leave at any time and if you don't you are trespassing and at that point you can be apprehended.

The LEO showed great patience with these clowns. The should have been hooked up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

George, once again you are letting your lawyer guise take over. I showed you right in the law where it says pictures can not be taken for educational purposes. I would say that taking pictures for a class clearly falls under that part of the statute.

You also can't deny that an LEO is not doing anything wrong if they ask you a million times for your ID. Also, by the statute the MDT can ask you to leave at any time and if you don't you are trespassing and at that point you can be apprehended.

The LEO showed great patience with these clowns. The should have been hooked up.

Once again, the pictures were not for the class.

 

[ConHog]

George, once again you are letting your lawyer guise take over. I showed you right in the law where it says pictures can not be taken for educational purposes. I would say that taking pictures for a class clearly falls under that part of the statute.

You also can't deny that an LEO is not doing anything wrong if they ask you a million times for your ID. Also, by the statute the MDT can ask you to leave at any time and if you don't you are trespassing and at that point you can be apprehended.

The LEO showed great patience with these clowns. The should have been hooked up.

Once again, the pictures were not for the class.

Really?

for the media law assignment I decided to explore the rights that a person has, or does not have, to make photographs on, in, and around Miami-Dade Transit’s (MDT’s) Metrorail system.


Clearly he was there for educational purposes. If he hadn't been there then neither would have been the cameraman.

 

[George Costanza]

Correct me if I am wrong, but several of you seem to be overlooking something. As I understand it, the only type of photography prohibited in the station is photography for commercial purposes. These guys were not there to take photographs for commercial purposes. So they should be allowed to go ahead and take the photographs. Am I missing something?

If there had been a prohibition against photography for any purpose whatsoever, then the police would have been on solid grounds to prohibit photography. But that wasn't the case, now was it?

So what's the argument for the police on the facts of this case? I don't see it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

George, once again you are letting your lawyer guise take over. I showed you right in the law where it says pictures can not be taken for educational purposes. I would say that taking pictures for a class clearly falls under that part of the statute.

You also can't deny that an LEO is not doing anything wrong if they ask you a million times for your ID. Also, by the statute the MDT can ask you to leave at any time and if you don't you are trespassing and at that point you can be apprehended.

The LEO showed great patience with these clowns. The should have been hooked up.

Once again, the pictures were not for the class.

Really?

for the media law assignment I decided to explore the rights that a person has, or does not have, to make photographs on, in, and around Miami-Dade Transit’s (MDT’s) Metrorail system.


Clearly he was there for educational purposes. If he hadn't been there then neither would have been the cameraman.

The class was to explore the rights a person has to take photography, not to take pictures. Regardless, the journalist was also prohibited from taking pictures, and that is clearly allowed.