Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[Foxfyre]

Computer games are also used by therapists to improve hand eye coordination and for other purposes of rehabilitation. The time old game of Solitaire is invaluable in teaching new computer users to a mouse and how to use it to accomplish tasks on the screen. There are programs to teach kids to read, to learn new languages, to recognize colors, etc. all accomplished through repetitive exercises.

So if repetitive action can be used to effect good results, would it not follow that repetitive action could also have a negative effect?

 

[Koios]

Computer games are also used by therapists to improve hand eye coordination and for other purposes of rehabilitation. The time old game of Solitaire is invaluable in teaching new computer users to a mouse and how to use it to accomplish tasks on the screen. There are programs to teach kids to read, to learn new languages, to recognize colors, etc. all accomplished through repetitive exercises.

So if repetitive action can be used to effect good results, would it not follow that repetitive action could also have a negative effect?

Water too is good for kids, but the wrong kind can make them ill, and too much can drown them.

Are you seeing?

 

[catzmeow]

Oh, and I don't think Call of Duty games should be played by anyone under 18 - ever.

My son started playing FPS games in elementary school, against my protests. His dad introduced him to them while he was on visitation. I had zero control over the issue, other than to ban them from our home.

I have to say, he's 15 now and I don't see any observable effects from shooting zombies/aliens/enemy soldiers for the past 4 years. He gets good grades and is a student athlete who spends 3-5 hours a day training for his sport (wrestling).

I'd say that there is stronger evidence supporting negative outcomes in his behavior from my divorce than the video games. I don't believe he's been any more prone to get into fights or conflicts with other kids than other boys at his school. Probably less so than most.

And, I say this to my relief, because it's something I've spent a lot of time worrying about. All things being equal, I think the effect of the games is relatively minor, but if the kid has some level of instability in his/her life, there might be more effect.

 

[Uncensored2008]

My son started playing FPS games in elementary school, against my protests. His dad introduced him to them while he was on visitation. I had zero control over the issue, other than to ban them from our home.

I have to say, he's 15 now and I don't see any observable effects from shooting zombies/aliens/enemy soldiers for the past 4 years. He gets good grades and is a student athlete who spends 3-5 hours a day training for his sport (wrestling).

I'd say that there is stronger evidence supporting negative outcomes in his behavior from my divorce than the video games. I don't believe he's been any more prone to get into fights or conflicts with other kids than other boys at his school. Probably less so than most.

And, I say this to my relief, because it's something I've spent a lot of time worrying about. All things being equal, I think the effect of the games is relatively minor, but if the kid has some level of instability in his/her life, there might be more effect.

Just as with movies, the themes of many modern games are very adult.

No child should see or play this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBDkevx5lM]Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - No Russian - Airport Mission Uncut - Veteran - High Quality - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't seen any of the more questionable video games some of you folks have mentioned. It is suggested that Civ IV and Rise of Nations, both of which I do have, are less realistic than the newer games, but in Rise of Nations, especially, unless you take the defensive mode which is boring, the object is to conquer the world. So your armies mow down everybody they see, military and civlian alike. The civilians scream as you kill them. Does playing that game have a negative effect on me? Not that I can tell. But then I am not a kid and I don't play the game endlessly for hours.

They are very different games. I loved RON back in the day. But never would consider it violent in any way. It's a real time strategy game with implied rather than actual violence. Civ is similar in ways.

The first person shooters are where the real violence is. Call of Duty games are essentially war simulations that get more realistic all the time. They are violent and deal with very adult themes. The airport scene I alluded to earlier has a very bad Russian mob boss leading a team of terrorist through the Moscow airport and slaughtering everyone in sight. It's very disturbing, but also has a very black and white morality to it - the backdrop of WHY going to war is justified.

I agree with Katz that the lack of moral compass, rather than the actual violence is the problem.

Oh, and I don't think Call of Duty games should be played by anyone under 18 - ever.

BTW, you ever play Empire Earth? Similar to RON but without the population caps.

Empire Earth II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lousy graphics, brilliant game play.

Well since RON has pretty good graphics, I would hate lousy graphics. I don't mind the population caps and enjoy the features that lets me increase population in RON. I do hate having to kill the poor civilians in order to increase the size of my army though. And I get irritated when I catch one of my tanks or whatever veering off to gun down some sweet young thing working in a field.

Before I started playing computer games, I had a Nintendo that played on the television set. My kids were in college at the time. Absolutely loved it and had maybe 50 different games at the time I retired it. I love games. All kinds of games. And still get a kick out of RON always trying to strategize how to prevent ANY losses anywhere as I conquer the world. I've ventured into a few on line role playing games and stuff too, and have killed my share of monsters and witches and trolls and other players who opposed me, but didn't enjoy those so much and didn't stay with them for long.

So I can certainly appreciate both sides of the debate here. But anything that might be hurting kids in a way that shouldn't be happening is of interest to me. And if that includes video games or certain kinds of video games, I think we need to know that.

 

[Koios]

My son started playing FPS games in elementary school, against my protests. His dad introduced him to them while he was on visitation. I had zero control over the issue, other than to ban them from our home.

I have to say, he's 15 now and I don't see any observable effects from shooting zombies/aliens/enemy soldiers for the past 4 years. He gets good grades and is a student athlete who spends 3-5 hours a day training for his sport (wrestling).

I'd say that there is stronger evidence supporting negative outcomes in his behavior from my divorce than the video games. I don't believe he's been any more prone to get into fights or conflicts with other kids than other boys at his school. Probably less so than most.

And, I say this to my relief, because it's something I've spent a lot of time worrying about. All things being equal, I think the effect of the games is relatively minor, but if the kid has some level of instability in his/her life, there might be more effect.

Just as with movies, the themes of many modern games are very adult.

No child should see or play this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBDkevx5lM]Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - No Russian - Airport Mission Uncut - Veteran - High Quality - YouTube[/ame]

Nor adults with IQs north of 85.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nor adults with IQs north of 85.

Oh? Then it's tailor made for you.

 

[Foxfyre]

My son started playing FPS games in elementary school, against my protests. His dad introduced him to them while he was on visitation. I had zero control over the issue, other than to ban them from our home.

I have to say, he's 15 now and I don't see any observable effects from shooting zombies/aliens/enemy soldiers for the past 4 years. He gets good grades and is a student athlete who spends 3-5 hours a day training for his sport (wrestling).

I'd say that there is stronger evidence supporting negative outcomes in his behavior from my divorce than the video games. I don't believe he's been any more prone to get into fights or conflicts with other kids than other boys at his school. Probably less so than most.

And, I say this to my relief, because it's something I've spent a lot of time worrying about. All things being equal, I think the effect of the games is relatively minor, but if the kid has some level of instability in his/her life, there might be more effect.

Just as with movies, the themes of many modern games are very adult.

No child should see or play this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBDkevx5lM]Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - No Russian - Airport Mission Uncut - Veteran - High Quality - YouTube[/ame]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

 

[Koios]

Nor adults with IQs north of 85.

Oh? Then it's tailor made for you.

Ahhhh! I kicked the door wide open for that brilliant retort!!!!

I'm such a fool, but in utter awe of your repartee genius.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

It can be skipped, but it's crucial as the backstory to why the United States and Russia go to war. The attack is a setup, the Marakov framing the USA for it, leading to a nuclear exchange and a ground war on the Easter Seaboard.

BUT, it just isn't suitable for children. Just as Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart are not. Good movies, but ADULT movies.

 

[Foxfyre]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

It can be skipped, but it's crucial as the backstory to why the United States and Russia go to war. The attack is a setup, the Marakov framing the USA for it, leading to a nuclear exchange and a ground war on the Easter Seaboard.

BUT, it just isn't suitable for children. Just as Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart are not. Good movies, but ADULT movies.

I think I won't be getting that game.

 

[catzmeow]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

It can be skipped, but it's crucial as the backstory to why the United States and Russia go to war. The attack is a setup, the Marakov framing the USA for it, leading to a nuclear exchange and a ground war on the Easter Seaboard.

BUT, it just isn't suitable for children. Just as Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart are not. Good movies, but ADULT movies.

It's fine to say that these things aren't suitable for children, and I agree with you.

The problem is with Foxy's claim that they lead to mass murder and/or increased violence. That's not substantiated and doesn't appear to be true, so it falls in the category of hyperbole.

 

[Foxfyre]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

It can be skipped, but it's crucial as the backstory to why the United States and Russia go to war. The attack is a setup, the Marakov framing the USA for it, leading to a nuclear exchange and a ground war on the Easter Seaboard.

BUT, it just isn't suitable for children. Just as Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart are not. Good movies, but ADULT movies.

It's fine to say that these things aren't suitable for children, and I agree with you.

The problem is with Foxy's claim that they lead to mass murder and/or increased violence. That's not substantiated and doesn't appear to be true, so it falls in the category of hyperbole.

Except that as others have pointed out, Foxy has made no such claim and has not made any effort to substantiate such a claim.

 

[Swagger]

My son started playing FPS games in elementary school, against my protests. His dad introduced him to them while he was on visitation. I had zero control over the issue, other than to ban them from our home.

I have to say, he's 15 now and I don't see any observable effects from shooting zombies/aliens/enemy soldiers for the past 4 years. He gets good grades and is a student athlete who spends 3-5 hours a day training for his sport (wrestling).

I'd say that there is stronger evidence supporting negative outcomes in his behavior from my divorce than the video games. I don't believe he's been any more prone to get into fights or conflicts with other kids than other boys at his school. Probably less so than most.

And, I say this to my relief, because it's something I've spent a lot of time worrying about. All things being equal, I think the effect of the games is relatively minor, but if the kid has some level of instability in his/her life, there might be more effect.

Just as with movies, the themes of many modern games are very adult.

No child should see or play this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBDkevx5lM]Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - No Russian - Airport Mission Uncut - Veteran - High Quality - YouTube[/ame]

Geez, what is the purpose of that? Is there any way in the game to stop it? Or it just happens?

Gain notoriety. If your product's up for Congressional/Parliamentary review (which is what happened), then its 'cool factor' shoots right up and your sales increase.

 

[catzmeow]

Except that as others have pointed out, Foxy has made no such claim and has not made any effort to substantiate such a claim.

Let me restate:

But the debate isn't about the crime rate in general or the murder rate in general. The debate is about the escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents, whether violent video games and media contributes to that, and on a broader scale whether violent video games and media is generally harmful to kids.

You made a claim that there is an escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents, and speculated about the link to violent video games.

There hasn't been an escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents.

 

[Foxfyre]

Except that as others have pointed out, Foxy has made no such claim and has not made any effort to substantiate such a claim.

Let me restate:

But the debate isn't about the crime rate in general or the murder rate in general. The debate is about the escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents, whether violent video games and media contributes to that, and on a broader scale whether violent video games and media is generally harmful to kids.

You made a claim that there is an escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents, and speculated about the link to violent video games.

There hasn't been an escalation of senseless mass murders of innocents.

I indeed believe there has been a senseless increase in mass murders of innocents, and asked the question about whether video games and media contributes to that. The question was posed because many influential and knowledgeable people have also raised the question and are studying the issue.

Now if you wish to extrapolate that into ME speculating about anything and making that the issue, I suggest you find something else to do because I have neither speculated, attempted to claim, or tried to make a case for anything here. I offered a thread topic. You are invited to discuss it. But if you wish to make this about me, I suggest you find something else to do because I'm not going to cooperate with that agenda.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think I won't be getting that game.

Sadly though, some 11 year olds are playing it.

I fully support the right of adults to play anything they like, but do pause at the idea that this is being distributed to children.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It's fine to say that these things aren't suitable for children, and I agree with you.

The problem is with Foxy's claim that they lead to mass murder and/or increased violence. That's not substantiated and doesn't appear to be true, so it falls in the category of hyperbole.

I agree that it has nothing to do with the mass murders like Sandy Hook.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's fine to say that these things aren't suitable for children, and I agree with you.

The problem is with Foxy's claim that they lead to mass murder and/or increased violence. That's not substantiated and doesn't appear to be true, so it falls in the category of hyperbole.

I agree that it has nothing to do with the mass murders like Sandy Hook.

But how do you arrive at your opinion that it has nothing to do with the mass murders like Sandy Hook? Have you read any of commentary on studies we have linked thus far? Lots of pro and con discussion there, but the fact that there have been some 3000 studies to date suggests that a whole lot of professional people are NOT convinced that violence in media, music, and video games has nothing at all to do with it.

Again if the evidence shows that such violence has no lasting negative affect on the young, so be it. But if it does, I think that merits some attention.

There are so many different angles different groups/people are working for. One suggestion is that the violence is dismissed by those who want to blame the proliferation and availability of guns. (Conversely, it is reasonable to argue that the gun lobby could have a motive to look for something to blame other than guns.) Another suggestion is that violent content is not harmful to the young, yet they support the rating of the content. If it isn't harmful, why rate it? But as I and other have posted, there are credible people saying that the studies showing that violent content can be harmful to kids are flawed.

So since nobody seems to have a firm fix on it, I want to know. And that's why I started the thread.

 

[Ravi]

Same question I asked Catz, maybe you'll answer. IF there is no correlation between violent video games and becoming predisposed to violence, why does the US military use them as a training aid for that express purpose?

Reflexes.

Hmm, really? Wrong. Try again.

Reflexes LOL laughable on the surface. I have GREAT reflexes in Madden 2013. I'd get killed if I was to ever play QB in the NFL though.

Apples and oranges. Don't take my word for it, google or ask the military.