Bakery Owners Refuse to Pay Gay Extortionists

[Iceweasel]

Liberals rush in to vilify civil disobedience in 3...2...1...

If you think that's civil disobedience you are ignorant.

Sure it is, you assholes trot it out whenever the mood suits. Now the tables have turned and they are victims of the establishment. Dissent is patriotic.

 

[martybegan]

Oh they can civily disobey all they want. What happens next? Are you saying that Oregon's PA law is unjust?

ALL Public Accommodation laws are u just and improper.

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So you would force a Catholic store to sell a Jesus figure to a Satanist who would perform a profane ritual on it, and tells the store's owner he/she would be doing it?

 

[daws101]

Good for them!!

The owners of an Oregon bakery are refusing to pay $135,000 in state-ordered damages to a same-sex couple who were denied service.

Melissa and Aaron Klein, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, cited religious beliefs when they refused to bake a wedding cake for Laurel and Rachel Bowman-Cryer more than two years ago.

The couple were awarded the damages in July by Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian for emotional suffering, saying the owners had violated the women’s civil rights by discriminating on the basis of their sexual orientation. They were also slapped with a gag order that prohibited them from speaking publicly about their refusal to participate in or bake wedding cakes for same-sex marriages.

Oregon bakery owners refuse to pay damages in gay wedding cake case
​

so they'll be held in contempt and interest will keep accruing. gee, that'll show 'em

Maybe, maybe not. They are planning on fighting this in court. Personally, I have no issue with same sex marriage. But I do have a problem with the excessive fine and the fascist "gag order" in this case.

I also have a problem with a potentially serious conflict of interest that exists.

The Daily Signal has exclusively learned that the government agency responsible for enforcing Oregon’s anti-discrimination law appears to be working closely with a powerful gay rights advocacy group in its case against Aaron and Melissa Klein, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa.

Communications between the agency, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, and the LGBT organization, Basic Rights Oregon, raise questions about potential bias in the state’s decision to charge the Kleins with discrimination for refusing to make a cake for a same-sex wedding.

In April, a judge for the agency recommended the Kleins be fined $135,000.

Communications obtained through a public records request show employees of the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries—which pursued the case against the Kleins—participating in phone calls, texting, and attending meetings with Basic Rights Oregon, the largest LGBT advocacy group in the state.

Emails Raise Questions About Bias in Sweet Cakes Ruling
​

Since when is the heritage Fondation not bias?

 

[Iceweasel]

havng to obey the law isn't "putting people out of business".

did i mention the same baker who was so concerned with the sanctity of marriage made a wedding cake for dogs?

Bakery Agrees To Make Cake For 'Dog Wedding' Despite Turning Away Gay Couples

but it was the gay couple who were the problem?

i think not.

I suspect the dog cake was done in humor but an argumentative sow like you wouldn't pick up on nuances like that. Funny that the fascists here suddenly are all law and order types when nanoseconds ago they were all about changing laws.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The fascist "gag order" is political overreach at its worst.

Did you feel the same way when years before Oregon used the same PA law to fine a business over 300K for refusing to serve a Christian couple?

I do. I believe any business should refuse to be enslaved.

And your protests? Where are they? What did you do to show your outrage when that happened?

I am not a Democrat. I do not hit the streets wearing body paint and jock strap and a Guy Fawkes mask, banging pots together and taking dumps on police cars.

Subtlety is a virtue, after all.

 

[paddymurphy]

Oh they can civily disobey all they want. What happens next? Are you saying that Oregon's PA law is unjust?

ALL Public Accommodation laws are u just and improper.

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So you would force a Catholic store to sell a Jesus figure to a Satanist who would perform a profane ritual on it, and tells the store's owner he/she would be doing it?

That you would compare the desecration of a religious object to a marriage tells us what warped values you have.

 

[daws101]

Liberals rush in to vilify civil disobedience in 3...2...1...

If you think that's civil disobedience you are ignorant.

Sure it is, you assholes trot it out whenever the mood suits. Now the tables have turned and they are victims of the establishment. Dissent is patriotic.

False! it's about the the same as spoiled kids throwing a tantrum. Conservatives have no concept of acually civil disobedience.

 

[westwall]

Good for them!!

The owners of an Oregon bakery are refusing to pay $135,000 in state-ordered damages to a same-sex couple who were denied service.

Melissa and Aaron Klein, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, cited religious beliefs when they refused to bake a wedding cake for Laurel and Rachel Bowman-Cryer more than two years ago.

The couple were awarded the damages in July by Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian for emotional suffering, saying the owners had violated the women’s civil rights by discriminating on the basis of their sexual orientation. They were also slapped with a gag order that prohibited them from speaking publicly about their refusal to participate in or bake wedding cakes for same-sex marriages.

Oregon bakery owners refuse to pay damages in gay wedding cake case
​

so they'll be held in contempt and interest will keep accruing. gee, that'll show 'em

And interest can accrue till hell freezes over. It's a civil case so no jail for them is possible. They can continue to thumb their noses forever. Their credit will be shit, but if they pay cash for everything they can ignore it forever.

 

[daws101]

Oh they can civily disobey all they want. What happens next? Are you saying that Oregon's PA law is unjust?

ALL Public Accommodation laws are u just and improper.

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So you would force a Catholic store to sell a Jesus figure to a Satanist who would perform a profane ritual on it, and tells the store's owner he/she would be doing it?

How would the store owner know they were selling an icon to a satanist?

 

[martybegan]

Oh they can civily disobey all they want. What happens next? Are you saying that Oregon's PA law is unjust?

ALL Public Accommodation laws are u just and improper.

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So you would force a Catholic store to sell a Jesus figure to a Satanist who would perform a profane ritual on it, and tells the store's owner he/she would be doing it?

How would the store owner know they were selling an icon to a satanist?

The Satanist would tell them. At that point, would you force the Store owner to sell the figurine?

 

[daws101]

What happens to any person or business who doesn't pay court ordered damages?

A court never ordered it. A commission did

Your point? An authorized commission has the same powers as a court.

No, it doesn't, or at least it shouldn't.

Your side loves tyranny when it punishes people you disagree with.

So it's not tyranny when you guys do it?

 

[Anathema]

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So long as their taxes and proper licensing and fees are up to date they're good in my mind. Their duty relative to public services is to the Government.

So long as that is met, I do not believe there is ANY requirement for any privately owned business to do business with anyone they don't want to. Including Government agencies.

 

[Iceweasel]

Liberals rush in to vilify civil disobedience in 3...2...1...

If you think that's civil disobedience you are ignorant.

Sure it is, you assholes trot it out whenever the mood suits. Now the tables have turned and they are victims of the establishment. Dissent is patriotic.

False! it's about the the same as spoiled kids throwing a tantrum. Conservatives have no concept of acually civil disobedience.

Oh, you mean like blocking traffic, keeping people from work and marching around with signs and banner with one hate filled message after the other. I admit the left does that better.

 

[martybegan]

What happens to any person or business who doesn't pay court ordered damages?

A court never ordered it. A commission did

Your point? An authorized commission has the same powers as a court.

No, it doesn't, or at least it shouldn't.

Your side loves tyranny when it punishes people you disagree with.

So it's not tyranny when you guys do it?

Please show me where I have advocated any form of "tyranny"

 

[paddymurphy]

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So long as their taxes and proper licensing and fees are up to date they're good in my mind. Their duty relative to public services is to the Government.

So long as that is met, I do not believe there is ANY requirement for any privately owned business to do business with anyone they don't want to. Including Government agencies.

You may think that but the law says otherwise. They benefit from society. They can go to court if they need be. They have police and fire protection. While they may pay taxes, so do other people. And those people support the institutions and infrastructure that allow them to succeed in their business. Allowing them to benefit from society but exclude portions of society simply based on their ignorant bigotry is an evil that our laws can justly and properly remedy.

 

[daws101]

Oh they can civily disobey all they want. What happens next? Are you saying that Oregon's PA law is unjust?

ALL Public Accommodation laws are u just and improper.

Right. It is much more just and proper to allow a business to benefit from all of the protections society gives it, for which every member of that society pays, and let that business refuse service to some of those in society.

So you would force a Catholic store to sell a Jesus figure to a Satanist who would perform a profane ritual on it, and tells the store's owner he/she would be doing it?

How would the store owner know they were selling an icon to a satanist?

The Satanist would tell them. At that point, would you force the Store owner to sell the figurine?

Why would a satanist tell them.
Unlike evangelicals and other religious nutsacks.
Satanists and sane religious people don't feel the need to broadcast their beliefs.
A more realistic scenario might make your argument appear reasonable.

 

[bodecea]

What happens to any person or business who doesn't pay court ordered damages?

Bother it all. I'll tell you since no one knows. The order of the Labor Commissioner will be entered as an order of the court. The court can put a lien on all revenues from the business including putting a Marshal's "keeper" on the till or attaching the business bank account.

Since the gays were so enthusiastic and put these people out of business through their threats, there's no till and no bank account. The judgment will lay around for ten years. The couple can go back to court and have it renewed or it will just die.

They are not out of business. What the heck are you talking about? And they've gained over half a million dollars so far from fools sending them money.

 

[paddymurphy]

Good for them!!

The owners of an Oregon bakery are refusing to pay $135,000 in state-ordered damages to a same-sex couple who were denied service.

Melissa and Aaron Klein, owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, cited religious beliefs when they refused to bake a wedding cake for Laurel and Rachel Bowman-Cryer more than two years ago.

The couple were awarded the damages in July by Labor Commissioner Brad Avakian for emotional suffering, saying the owners had violated the women’s civil rights by discriminating on the basis of their sexual orientation. They were also slapped with a gag order that prohibited them from speaking publicly about their refusal to participate in or bake wedding cakes for same-sex marriages.

Oregon bakery owners refuse to pay damages in gay wedding cake case
​

so they'll be held in contempt and interest will keep accruing. gee, that'll show 'em

And interest can accrue till hell freezes over. It's a civil case so no jail for them is possible. They can continue to thumb their noses forever. Their credit will be shit, but if they pay cash for everything they can ignore it forever.

Yes, they can. That they would go to such lengths to demonstrate their Un-Christian intolerance is really sad.

 

[paddymurphy]

What happens to any person or business who doesn't pay court ordered damages?

Bother it all. I'll tell you since no one knows. The order of the Labor Commissioner will be entered as an order of the court. The court can put a lien on all revenues from the business including putting a Marshal's "keeper" on the till or attaching the business bank account.

Since the gays were so enthusiastic and put these people out of business through their threats, there's no till and no bank account. The judgment will lay around for ten years. The couple can go back to court and have it renewed or it will just die.

They are not out of business. What the heck are you talking about? And they've gained over half a million dollars so far from fools sending them money.

They are in a new business. Being fake victims. Lot of profit in that these days.

 

[Missourian]

i don't think people who lived through jim crow would agree with you, marty. embarrassing people and forcing them out of your business does the same thing as it did back in the day.

if you go into a service business you can't refuse to serve people for discriminatory reasons. in fact, i'd apply the same standards as i would apply to employment discrimination ..... .you can refuse to serve someone for any reason or no reason but not for a discriminatory/illegal reason.

Not specifically address to me, but I think this is a great argument.

I certainly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings...which is the reason I am often reluctant to enter these discussions.

But there has to be an accommodation where all sides rights are protected.

This is really something new, and if you have an analogous situation, I'd love to hear it.

One groups rights are pitted equally against another groups rights.

And this isn't Loving v. Virginia...that Homosexual unions are a sin before God has been spelled out with utmost clarity in the Bible for almost 2,000 years. Cor 6:9 and Gal 5:19.

Coupled with Thes 5:21-22 "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil." and 1 Tim 5:22 "Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure."

The question is, how to accommodate both parties.