Atheism; An Intellectual Dead End

[hobelim]

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

Define the process of purifying thoughts?

Or do you define it accepting god then your thoughts will be pure?

Picture your consciousness as a vast ocean with all sorts of thoughts swimming around every which way like fish beneath the surface.

Take a great net and throw it into that sea and catch every thought,belief, unsubstantiated assumption, prejudice, and opinion in that net and drag it to the shore. Then methodically separate the good from the bad, keep the good thoughts like fish in a bucket and throw the worthless ones away.


It will take time, but when you are done, your mind will work like a brand new computer restored to its intended capabilities swept clean of every bug and malware that has been hacked into your thought processes, keeping you blind and preventing you from achieving your highest potential..

Then you will not only become a creature capable of perceiving the living God like Jesus who said, I am only doing what I see God doing, but when you look back in time you will see that evidence of God has already been presented to you for your entire life.

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

Define the process of purifying thoughts?

Or do you define it accepting god then your thoughts will be pure?

Picture your consciousness as a vast ocean with all sorts of thoughts swimming around like fish beneath the surface.

Take a great net and throw it into that sea and catch every thought in that net and drag it to the shore. Then methodically keep the good thoughts like fish in a bucket and throw the worthless ones away.


It will take time, but when you are done, your mind will work like a brand new computer restored to its intended capabilities swept clean of every bug and malware that has been keeping you blind.

Then you will not only become a creature capable of perceiving the living God like Jesus who said, I am only doing what I see God doing, but when you look back in time you will see that evidence of God has already been presented to you for your entire life.

.

I meditate daily have for years.
I can quiet my mind and drop my heart rate by 10 BPM in a good session

I do not see god. I do not hear god.
You want to believe and for those that don't you just think their minds are in chaos

 

[hobelim]

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

Define the process of purifying thoughts?

Or do you define it accepting god then your thoughts will be pure?

Picture your consciousness as a vast ocean with all sorts of thoughts swimming around like fish beneath the surface.

Take a great net and throw it into that sea and catch every thought in that net and drag it to the shore. Then methodically keep the good thoughts like fish in a bucket and throw the worthless ones away.


It will take time, but when you are done, your mind will work like a brand new computer restored to its intended capabilities swept clean of every bug and malware that has been keeping you blind.

Then you will not only become a creature capable of perceiving the living God like Jesus who said, I am only doing what I see God doing, but when you look back in time you will see that evidence of God has already been presented to you for your entire life.

.

I meditate daily have for years.
I can quiet my mind and drop my heart rate by 10 BPM in a good session

I do not see god. I do not hear god.
You want to believe and for those that don't you just think their minds are in chaos

I didn't say anything about quieting your mind,I said purify your thoughts.

Many times when two people are standing on a street corner and witness an accident they see two entirely different things,one might not even see a thing..

Yes, what is seen or not seen has everything to do with the state of mind of the witness.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

Define the process of purifying thoughts?

Or do you define it accepting god then your thoughts will be pure?

Picture your consciousness as a vast ocean with all sorts of thoughts swimming around like fish beneath the surface.

Take a great net and throw it into that sea and catch every thought in that net and drag it to the shore. Then methodically keep the good thoughts like fish in a bucket and throw the worthless ones away.


It will take time, but when you are done, your mind will work like a brand new computer restored to its intended capabilities swept clean of every bug and malware that has been keeping you blind.

Then you will not only become a creature capable of perceiving the living God like Jesus who said, I am only doing what I see God doing, but when you look back in time you will see that evidence of God has already been presented to you for your entire life.

.

I meditate daily have for years.
I can quiet my mind and drop my heart rate by 10 BPM in a good session

I do not see god. I do not hear god.
You want to believe and for those that don't you just think their minds are in chaos

Many times when two people are standing on a street corner and witness an accident they see two entirely different things,one might not even see a thing..

Yes, what is seen or not seen has everything to do with the state of mind of the witness.

Or the attention given to the event

You cannot assume that the 2 witnesses were both paying attention to the accident

One might have seen the 1 second before the accident looked away then picked up the action at the 3rd second and the other may not have started paying attention until after the the 5th second

 

[Czernobog]

Might have been more interesting if he could even begin to examine his own thought processes.

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Hence your emotional reaction to religion.

What emotional reaction? Why do you keep trying to project your thoughts, feelings, and reactions onto me?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Our best understanding of the data tells us that it did have a beginning. We live in a universe which has never had an uncaused event. Therefore, there was a cause for the beginning. We know that the universe is a self referential system and in many ways behaves like a brain. We know that the laws of nature are such that given enough time and the right conditions that beings that know and create will eventually arise. We know that that potential existed when space and time cane into existence. We know that everything that has happened since space and time came into existence was required for beings that know and create to arise. We know from our own experiences that when we create something that it can be used as evidence to learn things about us. For the life of me I have no idea of what evidence you have that something came from nothing without a cause or what you could possibly attribute that cause to. Do you?

Our best understanding may not be that good you know.

It is arrogance to think we are even capable of understanding everything in the universe. We do not fully understand the human brain either.


Just like it is arrogance to believe we are created in the image of some god

What evidence that the universe had a beginning do believe our best understanding is based upon?

We don't really know how the universe began
We may never know simply because we are incapable of understanding it. Just like dogs can't understand calculus

This Is What We Don’t Know About The Universe

That wasn't my question and you didn't answer it. Do you know what evidence exists for the widely held belief that the universe had a beginning? Yes or no?

Here's a question science will never answer: Can moral decisions about the use of science be determined using scientific method and research evidence?

No, science doesn't deal with questions of morals, of ethics. However, religion is not needed for those questions either. Any person who needs an authority figure - whether it be government, or religion - to dictate behaviour for them in order to behave in a moral, ethical fashion is clearly devoid of either morals, or ethics.

I need no outside authority to dictate right from wrong for me; I am quite capable of determining that for myself.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Might have been more interesting if he could even begin to examine his own thought processes.

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts so that you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

That's just it; evidence either exists, or it doesn't. It doesn't require a pure heart to be seen. I don't need a pure heart, or mind, to see the evidence of gravity. I need only drop a ball. I can be as pure as a saint, or as vile as a paedophile, and the evidence will be exactly the same.

Nothing that requires the "right mind-set" to experience is real, nor objective. Guess what? If I take the right drugs I'll hear God's voice. That isn't real, either.

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

When you throw water on someone in a deep sleep their reflex is to attack.

When you challenge those who maintain irrational beliefs with rational questions or well known facts, you become the enemy.

Might have been more interesting if he could even begin to examine his own thought processes.

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Than waste my time searching for a god that no one can find scientific evidence of? Yeah I have plenty of better things to do

But we do have evidence. What He created can be used as evidence. You keep confusing proof for evidence. Clearly. if at a later date you meet God, He will point to what He created as evidence for His existence, right? Your problem is that you don't accept this evidence as proof, but you keep illogically believing that there can be no evidence. If you start with the belief that everything is connected to reach a goal or serve a purpose, then you must evaluate everything as evidence before a finding of fact (i.e. proof) can be made. You are intellectually dead because you make no effort to do so. You just dismiss it all.

 

[ding]

That was hilarious. Do you understand what you just wrote? Your statement should be the poster child for confirmation bias.

Let me know the day my comment is proven wrong.

And as for atheism being a dead end. That's life. All life leads to a dead end.

Atheism teaches us to appreciate the time you have now. Don't cope with a shitty life in hopes of an afterlife. That's what religion asks you to do.

What you pray for God will give go be able to cope in this world we live

She should have been praying to change her woes not cope with them. Anyways it's an arrestive development song and the lyrics stuck.

Today is that day. Atheism being equivalent to intellectual death is not the same thing as dying.

No. Atheism does not teach you that. Atheism makes you deify yourself. Atheism's basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. You have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Your doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. Atheism leads to the practice of moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Atheism's hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. Atheists can be identified by an external locus of control. Atheists worship science but are the first to reject it.

Praying to God promotes thankfulness, humility and charity and alters the fabric of my identity to allow me to overcome obstacles and grow as a human being. When we pray, God does not do it for us, He gives us the strength to do it for our self.

Where did you get all this? I have values and morality beyond mortal pleasures. Except abortion there's not much difference between what you and I believe. Maybe that's because it's common sense.

Jews used to not be allowed to eat shrimp. Today they can eat shrimp. I guess they do whatever makes them feel good too even though their God specifically said don't eat shrimp.

No. You don't. You have relative values which are subject to change. Those aren't values. Those are conveniences. You keep making silly littel fringe arguments which have no bearing on the subject. Shrimp? Really? Shrimp? When you can tell me that you believe it is wrong to end a human life, let me know, Ok? Then I'll change my opinion on your lack of values.

So... You believe it wrong to end a human life? Period, full stop? Sure you want to make such a definitive statement? Because, if so, it will take about 2 seconds for me to demonstrate that you are either a moron, or a liar.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I believe it is wrong to end a human life at all times. Please proceed. It's not like I have not already thought this through.

 

[ding]

Our best understanding of the data tells us that it did have a beginning. We live in a universe which has never had an uncaused event. Therefore, there was a cause for the beginning. We know that the universe is a self referential system and in many ways behaves like a brain. We know that the laws of nature are such that given enough time and the right conditions that beings that know and create will eventually arise. We know that that potential existed when space and time cane into existence. We know that everything that has happened since space and time came into existence was required for beings that know and create to arise. We know from our own experiences that when we create something that it can be used as evidence to learn things about us. For the life of me I have no idea of what evidence you have that something came from nothing without a cause or what you could possibly attribute that cause to. Do you?

Our best understanding may not be that good you know.

It is arrogance to think we are even capable of understanding everything in the universe. We do not fully understand the human brain either.


Just like it is arrogance to believe we are created in the image of some god

What evidence that the universe had a beginning do believe our best understanding is based upon?

We don't really know how the universe began
We may never know simply because we are incapable of understanding it. Just like dogs can't understand calculus

This Is What We Don’t Know About The Universe

That wasn't my question and you didn't answer it. Do you know what evidence exists for the widely held belief that the universe had a beginning? Yes or no?

Well that question wasn't very well phrased now was it?

The most widely accepted theory, the big bang, is based on the observable movement of galaxies.

But then again our "universal laws " of physics are not universal by a long shot

That's not what I asked. I asked you if you understood the evidence behind the belief that the universe had a beginning. Yes, the big bang is widely accepted as the beginning. What evidence supports this? Are you even aware of this evidence?

 

[hobelim]

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts so that you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

That's just it; evidence either exists, or it doesn't. It doesn't require a pure heart to be seen. I don't need a pure heart, or mind, to see the evidence of gravity. I need only drop a ball. I can be as pure as a saint, or as vile as a paedophile, and the evidence will be exactly the same.

Nothing that requires the "right mind-set" to experience is real, nor objective. Guess what? If I take the right drugs I'll hear God's voice. That isn't real, either.

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Your logic is impeccable except you haven't included in your speculations that for a living being to qualify as God it would have to be incorporeal. Microscopes, telescopes, test tubes and beakers are consequently worthless.

For a human being to accurately perceive that which is incorporeal he would have to purify what is incorporeal in him, the conscious mind.

For everyone to have hold of objective evidence everyone would just have to stop screwing up each others minds.

Its a jungle out there.....Get real.

 

[Iceweasel]

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Your problem is that you need to greater simplify the question in order to hold your view. The fact is we are here. The universe exists. You have no answers and can only quote various theories. All are potential possibilities to the atheist, except god. Atheists are among the most fundamentalist believers out there.

 

[Czernobog]

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Actually, I have many, many better things to do. You make my point for me. What you are promising is reduced to a simple formula: "Just accept that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, and God will 'reveal' himself to you". It is the same promise that was given by every preacher I heard as a child, and every teacher I listened to in seminary.

Well, guess what? I spent 20 years ignoring logic, and reason, and never did I find a single shred of objective evidence of the existence of God. Did I, at times, feel good? Yes. Did good things happen that I could claim God did? Sure. But, you see, that's the scam, isn't it?

When I get a good grade on an assignment, thank God, because God led me to that grade, right? Let's just ignore all of the effort, and hours of studying that I put in to achieve that grade. It was God's will that I get that grade. And if I get a bad grade? Well...that's just me being tested. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my not taking the time to prepare, right?

That's the problem with your promise of "evidence". It's an empty promise. It's a promise of feeling, and emotion, not of actual objective evidence. It's a promise of confirmation bias, where, because I insist that God exists, then everything I see, I find a way to make fit with my preconceived assumptions.

Sorry. I will not be convinced that way. I will never believe in God, absent evidence; you are going to have to show me evidence of the existence of God. I do not work on faith; I work on what I observe.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No, whatever preacher influenced you as a child told you to just believe. Thats not what I am suggesting.

I am not saying for you to just believe in God and then you will feel good. I am not suggesting that you must join a religion or accept the existence of God without any evidence. That would be a scam.

Obviously your mind has been affected by your experiences with religion. You say you will never believe in God absent of evidence. I wouldn't either. You say you work on what you observe but then dismiss my suggestion to purify your thoughts so that you might actually be capable of observing evidence of God.


As a scientist would you conduct an experiment to determine the truth of something without first sterilizing and calibrating the instruments that will be used to test the theory and measure the results?

Can a scientist rely on any conclusion based on what was seen through a filthy lens?


Purify your mind and you will see God, not as a figment of an unrestrained imagination but as a living being whose existence is absolute.

That's just it; evidence either exists, or it doesn't. It doesn't require a pure heart to be seen. I don't need a pure heart, or mind, to see the evidence of gravity. I need only drop a ball. I can be as pure as a saint, or as vile as a paedophile, and the evidence will be exactly the same.

Nothing that requires the "right mind-set" to experience is real, nor objective. Guess what? If I take the right drugs I'll hear God's voice. That isn't real, either.

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Your logic is impeccable except you haven't included in your speculations that for a living being to qualify as God it would have to be incorporeal. Microscopes, telescopes, test tubes and beakers are consequently worthless.

For a human being to accurately perceive that which is incorporeal he would have to purify what is incorporeal in him, the conscious mind.

For everyone to have hold of objective evidence everyone would just have to stop screwing up each others minds.

Its a jungle out there.....Get real.

There's another word for what you are descibing - imagined. Gracvity is "incorporeal" as you put it. There is nothing to see, touch,taste, or smell. Yet, it is possible to observe gravity in action. It is posible to test for the existence of gravity, and to repeat the effects of gravity, and no "purity of spirit" necessary. Either a thing exists, or it doesn't. If it only exists for those "in the right mind-set" then it isn't real; it is the product of one's imagination.

 

[ding]

That was hilarious. Do you understand what you just wrote? Your statement should be the poster child for confirmation bias.

Let me know the day my comment is proven wrong.

And as for atheism being a dead end. That's life. All life leads to a dead end.

Atheism teaches us to appreciate the time you have now. Don't cope with a shitty life in hopes of an afterlife. That's what religion asks you to do.

What you pray for God will give go be able to cope in this world we live

She should have been praying to change her woes not cope with them. Anyways it's an arrestive development song and the lyrics stuck.

Today is that day. Atheism being equivalent to intellectual death is not the same thing as dying.

No. Atheism does not teach you that. Atheism makes you deify yourself. Atheism's basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. You have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Your doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. Atheism leads to the practice of moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Atheism's hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. Atheists can be identified by an external locus of control. Atheists worship science but are the first to reject it.

Praying to God promotes thankfulness, humility and charity and alters the fabric of my identity to allow me to overcome obstacles and grow as a human being. When we pray, God does not do it for us, He gives us the strength to do it for our self.

Where did you get all this? I have values and morality beyond mortal pleasures. Except abortion there's not much difference between what you and I believe. Maybe that's because it's common sense.

Jews used to not be allowed to eat shrimp. Today they can eat shrimp. I guess they do whatever makes them feel good too even though their God specifically said don't eat shrimp.

No. You don't. You have relative values which are subject to change. Those aren't values. Those are conveniences. You keep making silly littel fringe arguments which have no bearing on the subject. Shrimp? Really? Shrimp? When you can tell me that you believe it is wrong to end a human life, let me know, Ok? Then I'll change my opinion on your lack of values.

So... You believe it wrong to end a human life? Period, full stop? Sure you want to make such a definitive statement? Because, if so, it will take about 2 seconds for me to demonstrate that you are either a moron, or a liar.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Are you going to school me on this or not? I'm still waiting.

 

[ding]

Our best understanding of the data tells us that it did have a beginning. We live in a universe which has never had an uncaused event. Therefore, there was a cause for the beginning. We know that the universe is a self referential system and in many ways behaves like a brain. We know that the laws of nature are such that given enough time and the right conditions that beings that know and create will eventually arise. We know that that potential existed when space and time cane into existence. We know that everything that has happened since space and time came into existence was required for beings that know and create to arise. We know from our own experiences that when we create something that it can be used as evidence to learn things about us. For the life of me I have no idea of what evidence you have that something came from nothing without a cause or what you could possibly attribute that cause to. Do you?

Our best understanding may not be that good you know.

It is arrogance to think we are even capable of understanding everything in the universe. We do not fully understand the human brain either.


Just like it is arrogance to believe we are created in the image of some god

What evidence that the universe had a beginning do believe our best understanding is based upon?

We don't really know how the universe began
We may never know simply because we are incapable of understanding it. Just like dogs can't understand calculus

This Is What We Don’t Know About The Universe

That wasn't my question and you didn't answer it. Do you know what evidence exists for the widely held belief that the universe had a beginning? Yes or no?

Well that question wasn't very well phrased now was it?

The most widely accepted theory, the big bang, is based on the observable movement of galaxies.

But then again our "universal laws " of physics are not universal by a long shot

Let me re-phrase my question for you. Scientific evidence exists for the belief that the universe began through an event called the big bang. Do you know what this scientific evidence is? Yes or no? Now do you understand the question?

 

[Czernobog]

Might have been more interesting if he could even begin to examine his own thought processes.

I know, he seems to be set in the position that unless God reveals himself on CNN or can be examined under a microscope in a laboratory he must not exist..

Pretty stupid for someone who likes to think that he is smarter than everyone else.

I know. How stupid to expect evidence to accept the existence of a thing. Now, excuse me while I ride off on my pink unicorn, to go have lunch with queen of the fairies, and the Bandersnatch, with Harry, Hermoine, and Ron.

If you want evidence of God you have to become a creature capable of perceiving God. The way is clear. Follow the instruction given in the law knowing that the words are figurative, the subjects hidden. Its easy. You probably are already doing much of it naturally. Do this, don't do that. Don't bow down and worship the work of human hands. Do not speak falsely in the name of God. Do not mislead others through religious deception. Do not eat the vile and contaminating teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, think deeply. Do not mix dairy with meat meaning do not mix what is taught to sustain children with what is taught to adults who have teeth., etc., How hard is that?

Cleanse your thoughts. Purify your consciousness, what the ancients called the soul, and be refined, then diligently stand guard over the purity of your own mind for the rest of your days. Would you have a problem with that?

Do it and God will make himself known to you and you will have far more evidence than you can handle... If you apply an additional effort, you might even see the kingdom of God in power and find out what eternal life is before you die... .

You have something better to do?

Than waste my time searching for a god that no one can find scientific evidence of? Yeah I have plenty of better things to do

But we do have evidence. What He created can be used as evidence. You keep confusing proof for evidence. Clearly. if at a later date you meet God, He will point to what He created as evidence for His existence, right? Your problem is that you don't accept this evidence as proof, but you keep illogically believing that there can be no evidence. If you start with the belief that everything is connected to reach a goal or serve a purpose, then you must evaluate everything as evidence before a finding of fact (i.e. proof) can be made. You are intellectually dead because you make no effort to do so. You just dismiss it all.

Yeah, you keep trying that, and failing. You wanna try again, or are you just going to concede here?

 

[Czernobog]

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Your problem is that you need to greater simplify the question in order to hold your view. The fact is we are here. The universe exists. You have no answers and can only quote various theories. All are potential possibilities to the atheist, except god. Atheists are among the most fundamentalist believers out there.

Not true. God is absolutely a possibility. It is just a possiblity that requires evidence. The atheist will not simply concede God, and then look for evidence to support that preconception. The atheist will concede the possiblity of the existance of God, but requires objective evidence to move that possiblity to probability, or certitude.

 

[Iceweasel]

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Your problem is that you need to greater simplify the question in order to hold your view. The fact is we are here. The universe exists. You have no answers and can only quote various theories. All are potential possibilities to the atheist, except god. Atheists are among the most fundamentalist believers out there.

Not true. God is absolutely a possibility. It is just a possiblity that requires evidence.

How so? People can believe anything they want. No one is obliged to prove their beliefs to anyone else. If god is a possibility then the correct term is agnostic. The atheist goes further, states a belief that they can't support either. The difference is the atheist claims science is on his side.

 

[Czernobog]

Let me know the day my comment is proven wrong.

And as for atheism being a dead end. That's life. All life leads to a dead end.

Atheism teaches us to appreciate the time you have now. Don't cope with a shitty life in hopes of an afterlife. That's what religion asks you to do.

What you pray for God will give go be able to cope in this world we live

She should have been praying to change her woes not cope with them. Anyways it's an arrestive development song and the lyrics stuck.

Today is that day. Atheism being equivalent to intellectual death is not the same thing as dying.

No. Atheism does not teach you that. Atheism makes you deify yourself. Atheism's basic principles guiding the life of an individual and of mankind in general do not go beyond the satisfaction of material needs or primitive instincts. You have no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. Your doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and communality or equality. The religious nature of socialism explains the extraordinary attraction to socialist doctrines and its capacity to inflame individuals and inspire popular movements and condemn respect for any who believe in Christianity. Atheism leads to the practice of moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural marxism and normalization of deviance. Atheism's hostility towards traditional religions is that of an animosity between a rival religion. Atheists can be identified by an external locus of control. Atheists worship science but are the first to reject it.

Praying to God promotes thankfulness, humility and charity and alters the fabric of my identity to allow me to overcome obstacles and grow as a human being. When we pray, God does not do it for us, He gives us the strength to do it for our self.

Where did you get all this? I have values and morality beyond mortal pleasures. Except abortion there's not much difference between what you and I believe. Maybe that's because it's common sense.

Jews used to not be allowed to eat shrimp. Today they can eat shrimp. I guess they do whatever makes them feel good too even though their God specifically said don't eat shrimp.

No. You don't. You have relative values which are subject to change. Those aren't values. Those are conveniences. You keep making silly littel fringe arguments which have no bearing on the subject. Shrimp? Really? Shrimp? When you can tell me that you believe it is wrong to end a human life, let me know, Ok? Then I'll change my opinion on your lack of values.

So... You believe it wrong to end a human life? Period, full stop? Sure you want to make such a definitive statement? Because, if so, it will take about 2 seconds for me to demonstrate that you are either a moron, or a liar.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Are you going to school me on this or not? I'm still waiting.

I am waiting for you to acknowledge that this is your position.

 

[Czernobog]

Either God exists, and there is objective evidence to support that claim, or he doesn't, and there isn't.

And if such objective evidence exists, that means, by definition, that it is observable by everyone, period. Full stop. Not just the "pure of heart", but everyone.

Your problem is that you need to greater simplify the question in order to hold your view. The fact is we are here. The universe exists. You have no answers and can only quote various theories. All are potential possibilities to the atheist, except god. Atheists are among the most fundamentalist believers out there.

Not true. God is absolutely a possibility. It is just a possiblity that requires evidence.

How so? People can believe anything they want. No one is obliged to prove their beliefs to anyone else. If god is a possibility then the correct term is agnostic. The atheist goes further, states a belief that they can't support either. The difference is the atheist claims science is on his side.

You're right. I thought you were talking about the point of view of atheists. If no proof of God is necessary for you that's fine. However, your contention was that atheists are unwilling to concede to the possiblity of God for atheists. I am merely correcting your misunderstanding of the position of atheists for atheists. The atheist will not simply concede God, and then look for evidence to support that preconception. The atheist will concede the possiblity of the existance of God, but requires objective evidence to move that possiblity to probability, or certitude, for the Atheist.