assuming you don't want to brainwash, what is the proper age to introduce religion

[blu]

And people keep wondering why we manage to raise generations of gormless little weirdos with no direction and no moral compass who, at best, can't find the gumption and drive to get and hold a decent job and move out of Mom's basement, and at worst, are downright dangerous. Look no further than the odd notion that it's somehow equivalent to The Manchurian Candidate for parents to actually teach their children anything they themselves believe and that they should simply turn the little lumps of humanity out with no guidance to somehow recreate the moral learning of human history all on their own.

wow this is pretty sad... you can teach them guidance it just doesn't need a god attached the kid wouldn't understand anyway. and there are many books one can read on morality and philosophy that aren't religious. its really sad if you need religion as a crutch in order to teach your kids morality.

 

[uscitizen]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

Right before they die. They can repent and go to heaven and not have spent 10% of their income all their life to pay for it.

 

[blu]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

well we certainly should not introduce spiritual beliefs until the sodomites have had a chance to indoctrinate them

"yea"...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

well we certainly should not introduce spiritual beliefs until the sodomites have had a chance to indoctrinate them




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Ed1kb8B6U&feature=related]YouTube - Homosexuals Brainwashing Public School Children.[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKQXd0MpZA8&feature=related]YouTube - Homosexuals Brainwashing Public School Children Part 2[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuLDpNOVZdY]YouTube - Gay sex lessons for 4 year olds![/ame]

Man that is just about as SICK a thing as I've ever seen...

I don't even know how to react... except to be outraged.

"Yes, we're asking you to teach that this is right. It's not about moral principle; it's about (she paused and changed her track) it's about teaching what is right."

So we find that moral principle and 'what is right' is not always the same thing.

Now there's a thread in "General" regarding Plagiarism... read that and see how the Morderate, Centrist, Mainstream progressives treated the idea of intellectual honesty.

In short they felt holding to the standard was something to be belittled... no big deal.

And what you see in those videos... is exactly the same mindset... the normalization of abnormality.

 

[Intense]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

It's a trick Question. The matter is for Each Individual Parent to decide. It is not the business of the community or the State. WTFU. Let's see some back bone. Rules and controls, and more rules. The blind cannot lead the blind. All these expectations and burdens placed on Others, lacks understanding, purpose, justification.

Just a thought, I have always loved the way Thoreau put it in "Civil Disobedience".

They who know of no purer sources of truth, who have traced up its stream no higher, stand, and wisely stand, by the Bible and the Constitution, and drink at it there with reverence and humanity; but they who behold where it comes trickling into this lake or that pool, gird up their loins once more, and continue their pilgrimage toward its fountainhead.

No man with a genius for legislation has appeared in America. They are rare in the history of the world. There are orators, politicians, and eloquent men, by the thousand; but the speaker has not yet opened his mouth to speak who is capable of settling the much-vexed questions of the day. We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which it may utter, or any heroism it may inspire. Our legislators have not yet learned the comparative value of free trade and of freed, of union, and of rectitude, to a nation. They have no genius or talent for comparatively humble questions of taxation and finance, commerce and manufactures and agriculture. If we were left solely to the wordy wit of legislators in Congress for our guidance, uncorrected by the seasonable experience and the effectual complaints of the people, America would not long retain her rank among the nations. For eighteen hundred years, though perchance I have no right to say it, the New Testament has been written; yet where is the legislator who has wisdom and practical talent enough to avail himself of the light which it sheds on the science of legislation.

The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to — for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well — is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual. Even the Chinese philosopher was wise enough to regard the individual as the basis of the empire. Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which I have also imagined, but not yet anywhere seen.

Henry David Thoreau: On the Duty of Civil Disobedience

 

[blu]

Man that is just about as SICK a thing as I've ever seen...

I don't even know how to react... except to be outraged.

"Yes, we're asking you to teach that this is right. It's not about moral principle; it's about (she paused and changed her track) it's about teaching what is right."

So we find that moral principle and 'what is right' is not always the same thing.

Now there's a thread in "General" regarding Plagiarism... read that and see how the Morderate, Centrist, Mainstream progressives treated the idea of intellectual honesty.

In short they felt holding to the standard was something to be belittled... no big deal.

And what you see in those videos... is exactly the same mindset... the normalization of abnormality.

it is totally inappropriate. in the same way kids can't understand religion at that age tehy certainly can't make an independent choice on homosexuality either.

 

[rikules]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

I'm an atheist.

and my kids are now in their mid to late 30's

so I don't really remember the ages we STARTED to discuss this issue.

at some point they became aware of the fact that their friends were being taken (dragged off to) churches (and the indoctrination process for those children definitely started YOUNG)

THAT was the point/age that they asked me about religion "daddy....what religion are we?"

and this is what I said (basically);

"well
I don't actually believe in god
but lots of people do
so we don't have a religion

god and religion, believing AND NOT believing, is a personal thing
every person should probably think about, read about, investigate the various religions and interpretations of god and decide for themselves if they believe or not

as opposed to me telling you "you ARE catholic...you WILL BELIEVE in MY GOD..!"
this contemplatiion of god and religion and the ultimate decision as to what you believe is something that should take serious contemplation, study and reflection.

it is NOT something that should be FORCED ON YOU
nor is it something that you should decide at a very young IMPRESSIONABLE age"

at the time they had been invited by some of their friends to attend their religious services...

to which I readily agreed

they attended services a few times but didn't seem to have any real interest in it.

after a short period....the subject was dropped....and never came up again.

today they are both non-believers

to be fair, I don't think either one of them ever really contemplated ANY religion

I certainly never encouraged them to.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Exactly, blu. I didn't even start thinking about what my true sexual orientation was until I was already a teenager. And even then, I really didn't start dwelling upon the issue until I was about 16 or so.

However, I don't see anything wrong with teaching a LITTLE religion to young children.

I mean, Sunday School was always fun! It was one of my favorite childhood experiences. If I had waited till I was 11-13 to learn about religion at all, I would have missed out on all the productions I participated in, Sunday School, numerous church activities and most other things. The most important one is spiritual growth though.

I wouldn't have traded childhood church experiences in for being ignorant of religion for 11 years of my life.

I encourage children to be taught about religion and religious issues at young ages, especially the religion the parents/family participates. After all, what they learn will make more of an indelible impression upon them.

And I am STILL Christian and saved!

 

[rikules]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

well we certainly should not introduce spiritual beliefs until the sodomites have had a chance to indoctrinate them

--------------

"well we certainly should not introduce spiritual beliefs until the sodomites have had a chance to indoctrinate them"

unlike some peope....I never taught my kids to hate gays.

Today...they do not hate gays

apparently there is truth in the statement...children must be taught to hate

 

[manifold]

Right out of the womb.

And shorty after you have the Santa Claus talk, you have the God talk.

 

[rikules]

And people keep wondering why we manage to raise generations of gormless little weirdos with no direction and no moral compass who, at best, can't find the gumption and drive to get and hold a decent job and move out of Mom's basement, and at worst, are downright dangerous. Look no further than the odd notion that it's somehow equivalent to The Manchurian Candidate for parents to actually teach their children anything they themselves believe and that they should simply turn the little lumps of humanity out with no guidance to somehow recreate the moral learning of human history all on their own.

the subject was about religion, NOT morals

I NEVER indoctrinated my children with any religion

I DID however INDOCTRINATE them into being MORAL and decent people.

1. don't hurt people
2. don't hate people just because they are different
3. don't steal
4. don't kill
5. don't cheat
6. don't lie (of course, even conservatives know that sometimes lying is the best/right thing to do


some people use their religion to indoctrinate (and justify) IMMORAL behavior....like...
hating atheists
hating gays
hating liberals
justifying murder of "undesirables"

and LOTS of christians are, apparently, unable to discern right from wrong without a god or a bible to tell them.

rather sad....

and dangerous!

I certainly hope nobody convinces the average conservative christian that god does NOT exist

for they themselves have admitted that there are no atrocities they would NOT commit if they didn't fear god and hell

as long as glenn beck believes in god and fears hell he just might not rouse his minions to slaughter me....


on the other hand
I'm sure glenn beck would use his god and fears of hell to incite them to be CHRISTIAN WARRIORS and do gods' work, making America a "BETTER place" by killing all of glenn becks enemies (oops.....I mean.....enemies of god)

 

[eots]

we should have whores and junkies come into the schools and tell the children about all the famous whores and addicts through out history...invite the girls gone wild crew in and a few porn stars to bestow the virtues of whoredom as an alternative lifestyle

 

[Mr. H.]

Our daughter is almost 15 and we've never discussed the topic.

 

[rikules]

Morality doesn't only come from religion, chanel. That's another common fallacy.

Oh contraire.....the Bible is a lesson in morality.

That is no fallacy.

Obeying it's teachings can prevent alot of things including drug-abuse, unwanted pregnancy, disease, depression, suicide, etc,.

au contraire!

the bible is FULL of immoral beliefs and command;

god is very pro-slavery
beating slaves
having sex with slaves
selling your daughter into slavery

plus;

suffer not witches to live (murder)
and killing homosexuals and pagans

for every GOOD moral you can point to in the bible I can point to TERRIBLE IMMORAL godly commands

and
I must say
it worries me that you are not able to discern right from wrong, or GOOD MORAL behavior, without a mythical god and bible to tell you....

if you did NOT believe in god
would you steal?
lie?
kill?
rape?

and
since god promotes selling your daughter into slavery....

how much $ would you sell her for?

 

[blu]

we should have whores and junkies come into the schools and tell the children about all the famous whores and addicts through out history...invite the girls gone wild crew in and a few porn stars to bestow the virtues of whoredom as an alternative lifestyle

what does this have to do with anything?

 

[eots]

we should have whores and junkies come into the schools and tell the children about all the famous whores and addicts through out history...invite the girls gone wild crew in and a few porn stars to bestow the virtues of whoredom as an alternative lifestyle

what does this have to do with anything?

what makes a person gay is their sexuality..what makes a whore or a fetish freak is their sexuality and being an addict is apparently genetic in part ..they are born that way..so why discriminate

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Morality doesn't only come from religion, chanel. That's another common fallacy.

Actually, it does...

In the absence of God, there is no morality... just a diverse array of opinions; each as meaningless as the next.

In that where there is No God... there is no final accounting and where there's no final accounting; who really gives a **** what anyone else thinks; says or does... all that counts is me and what I want and the rest of ya can kiss my royal Irish ass.

What is HYSTERICAL, in at LEAST two contexts and on SEVERAL LEVELS; are those who feel that they're moral people despite their not believing in God. they can't tell ya what those morals are... or why they believe 'em... but they're MORAL!

And they make these ridiculous Television 'info-mentaries' about the earth after Humans...

ROFL... WHO GIVES A DAMN? Can't ya just see'em sitting around the TV just imagining how much better it's gonna be when we're gone?

WOO HOO! You ain't gonna BE THERE! Genious... But I digress...



Run over to general and check out the giggles that the A-moral and atheist treated us to, in a discussion regarding the Plagiarism...

"It's no big deal..." was the general concensus amongst the Moderate, Centrist, Mainstream Progressives... Sure they're against Plagiarism as a general rule; but they don't like to make a big deal out of it...

Which we can be sure is a position based upon a very good is relative reason... they're part-time plagiarist and don't want to feel bad about coming down on others who do the same thing... Hypocrisy being what it is and all...

They're tha same folks who advocate for a RIGHT to murder their own children... at least before their born.

And where one needs HEALTHCARE? Why that's something to which they're ENTITLED! And they don't give a damn WHO pays for it or what those people have to do TO PAY FOR IT!

Oh, yeah... they're a very moral crowd indeed.

Humanist Moral Relativism... the other commie-ilk.

 

[jillian]

'age' might not be the appropriate measure, it has more to do with maturity, but in the interest of raising a non-sheeple kid, when should religion/god be introduced? personally, we are aiming somewhere in between 11-13 for my stepson and when that time comes doing a thorough review of all major religions/ideas throughout the world, as well as the idea of being agnostic and atheist. what have other people done?

perhaps you should stop looking at religion as being for 'sheeple' and instead look at it from the pov that if people didn't believe in their religion, they wouldn't continue to subscribe to those beliefs. that being the case, why wouldn't one raise their child with the same beliefs that one embraces.

what i think you're addressing is that most people continue to believe in the religion in which they're raised. but most people continue to speak the language they were raised speaking, too. people tend to stick with what they're familiar with.

 

[rikules]

Morality doesn't only come from religion, chanel. That's another common fallacy.

Actually, it does...

In the absence of God, there is no morality... just a diverse array of opinions; each as meaningless as the next.

In that where there is No God... there is no final accounting and where there's no final accounting; who really gives a **** what anyone else thinks; says or does... all that counts is me and what I want and the rest of ya can kiss my royal Irish ass.

What is HYSTERICAL, in at LEAST two contexts and on SEVERAL LEVELS; are those who feel that they're moral people despite their not believing in God. they can't tell ya what those morals are... or why they believe 'em... but they're MORAL!

And they make these ridiculous Television 'info-mentaries' about the earth after Humans...

ROFL... WHO GIVES A DAMN? Can't ya just see'em sitting around the TV just imagining how much better it's gonna be when we're gone?

WOO HOO! You ain't gonna BE THERE! Genious... But I digress...



Run over to general and check out the giggles that the A-moral and atheist treated us to, in a discussion regarding the Plagiarism...

"It's no big deal..." was the general concensus amongst the Moderate, Centrist, Mainstream Progressives... Sure they're against Plagiarism as a general rule; but they don't like to make a big deal out of it...

Which we can be sure is a position based upon a very good is relative reason... they're part-time plagiarist and don't want to feel bad about coming down on others who do the same thing... Hypocrisy being what it is and all...

They're tha same folks who advocate for a RIGHT to murder their own children... at least before their born.

And where one needs HEALTHCARE? Why that's something to which they're ENTITLED! And they don't give a damn WHO pays for it or what those people have to do TO PAY FOR IT!

Oh, yeah... they're a very moral crowd indeed.

Humanist Moral Relativism... the other commie-ilk.

"In the absence of God, there is no morality... just a diverse array of opinions; each as meaningless as the next. "


in other words...YOU are an immoral person who is afraid of god and hell so you follow his dictates.

rather pathetic, really...

more intelligent, sane and rational people have come to understandings with regards to morals.

we have agreed that killing and stealing and cheating, raping,lying and slavery are all BAD

and WRONG.


these are things that we would not want done to ourselves

so, in the interest of a better, kinder, nicer planet, we all agree to NOT do these things.


It sickens me to know that you are completely unable to behave in a decent and moral behavior without fearing punishment from god.

please
for all our sakes
do NOT stop believing in god


apparently, your belief in a mythical god (or is it that you are a coward who is afraid of hell?) is the one thing that keeps you from stealing, cheating, murdering and raping....

 

[jillian]

pity that you can't be moral without fear of reprisal in the afterlife