Assad: hero or criminal?

[Coyote]

criminal
war criminal
crimes against humanity
use of chemical weapons against his own people
torture
massacre
brutality
racial genocide
religious genocide
terrorism
........................

What religious and racial genocide?

 

[Bleipriester]

He's proven his inability to govern and has broken his contract to his people through massive civilian attacks.

Not true.

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

 

[Coyote]

He's proven his inability to govern and has broken his contract to his people through massive civilian attacks.

Not true.

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

 

[Bleipriester]

This is a spin off from another thread.

Does Assad deserve support and to maintain his regime?

Consider his actions:
When a photographer-archivist working for Syria’s military police defected with grisly evidence of the regime’s brutality, he became a war-crimes whistle-blower.

Caesar and his squad, using Fuji and Nikon digital cameras, would painstakingly photograph the remains of people from all walks of life: men, women, young, old, Sunnis, Christians. The security forces responsible for the killings even went after Alawites, the close-knit Islamic sect to which Assad and the rest of the ruling elite belong. (Some of the bodies, as is evident in Caesar’s photographs, arrived with what turned out to be an ironic marking—a tattoo of Bashar al-Assad’s face.) While a number of the victims, according to Syrian opposition figures, might be considered anti-regime activists, the rest simply found themselves for whatever reason on the wrong side of the regime. In many cases, sources say, individuals had merely been detained at checkpoints by guards who found their loyalties suspect based on their religion, where they lived, or even their demeanor.

These unfortunates may have lived and died in different ways, but they were bound in death by coded numerals scribbled on their skin with markers, or on scraps of paper affixed to their bodies. The first set of numbers (for example, 2935 in the photographs at bottom) would denote a prisoner’s I.D. The second (for example, 215) would refer to the intelligence branch responsible for his or her death. Underneath these figures, in many cases, would appear the hospital case-file number (for example, 2487/B). Such documentation is reminiscent of schemes used by the Nazis during World War II and is eerily reminiscent of an image bank collected by the Khmer Rouge during their Cambodian reign of terror in the 1970s.

According to David Crane, a war-crimes prosecutor who helped put Liberian strongman Charles Taylor away for half a century, the system of organizing and recording the dead served three ends: to satisfy Syrian authorities that executions were carried out; to ensure that no one was improperly discharged; and to allow military judges to represent to families—by producing official-seeming death certificates—that their loved ones had died of natural causes. In many ways, these facilities were ideal for hiding “unwanted” individuals, alive or dead. As part of the Ministry of Defense, the hospitals were already fortified, which made it easy to shield their inner workings and keep away families who might come looking for missing relatives. “These hospitals provide cover for the crimes of the regime,” said Nawaf Fares, a top Syrian diplomat and tribal leader who defected in 2012. “People are brought into the hospitals, and killed, and their deaths are papered over with documentation.” When I asked him, during a recent interview in Dubai, Why involve the hospitals at all?, he leaned forward and said, “Because mass graves have a bad reputation.”

That's a start. We can also move on to the barrel bombings and the horrific and indiscriminate nature of their injuries. A type of bomb designed not just to kill but to maim all within reach with horrific injuries. Targets were civilian populations. http://www.newsweek.com/united-nations-assads-barrel-bombs-continue-kill-syrian-civilians-347782

If your intention was to start a serious discussion, why do you only post anti-Assad propaganda shit, then?

So here comes the reply this nonsense deserves:

Kobane reduced to ashes by US air force, not Syrian "barrel bombs":

Abu Ghraib, US torture prison:

So before you show up with propaganda against Syria that cannot be bolstered by evidence, go and ask this question about your own government.

My intention was to present my point of view on Assad - and you are free to refute it or not. Just as you were free to create your own thread had you so wished.

Instead of refuting it, you try and deflect it by complaining about the US's actions. I'm no supporter of our actions in regards to Abu Ghraib, "extraordinary rendition" or a host of other actions that were nothing more than cover ups for torture. You are wasting your time here. If you've gotten that out of your system, let's discuss Assad. If you are calling it propoganda - then disprove it.

However - my government has not bombed it's pwn civilians. I consider that a plus.

If something has happened or not is not up to someone´s view to decide. You have randomly taken propaganda and present it as facts, though you have no evidence. Before you tell me the Syrian governments bombs its "own" civilians, you need to have evidence, which you cannot have. What you are doing is basically echoing Islamist´s propaganda.

 

[Bleipriester]

At this point it's a total unkown - there is no legitimate governance in Syria, just territory held. I started a new thread on Assad specifically.

Yes, there is: The Syrian government.

What "Syrian government"? Assad? ISIS? Where are there any indications of governance?

ISIS? Are you kidding?
The Syrian government is working on all levels of governing. It pays the wages, does all its jobs while fighting the terrorists. As long as you have no clue what is going on in Syria, you better get information before you discuss the topic.

 

[Coyote]

At this point it's a total unkown - there is no legitimate governance in Syria, just territory held. I started a new thread on Assad specifically.

Yes, there is: The Syrian government.

What "Syrian government"? Assad? ISIS? Where are there any indications of governance?

ISIS? Are you kidding?
The Syrian government is working on all levels of governing. It pays the wages, does all its jobs while fighting the terrorists. As long as you have no clue what is going on in Syria, you better get information before you discuss the topic.

Apparently so does ISIS in the territories it is holding...in it's own special brutal way.

 

[Coyote]

This is a spin off from another thread.

Does Assad deserve support and to maintain his regime?

Consider his actions:
When a photographer-archivist working for Syria’s military police defected with grisly evidence of the regime’s brutality, he became a war-crimes whistle-blower.

Caesar and his squad, using Fuji and Nikon digital cameras, would painstakingly photograph the remains of people from all walks of life: men, women, young, old, Sunnis, Christians. The security forces responsible for the killings even went after Alawites, the close-knit Islamic sect to which Assad and the rest of the ruling elite belong. (Some of the bodies, as is evident in Caesar’s photographs, arrived with what turned out to be an ironic marking—a tattoo of Bashar al-Assad’s face.) While a number of the victims, according to Syrian opposition figures, might be considered anti-regime activists, the rest simply found themselves for whatever reason on the wrong side of the regime. In many cases, sources say, individuals had merely been detained at checkpoints by guards who found their loyalties suspect based on their religion, where they lived, or even their demeanor.

These unfortunates may have lived and died in different ways, but they were bound in death by coded numerals scribbled on their skin with markers, or on scraps of paper affixed to their bodies. The first set of numbers (for example, 2935 in the photographs at bottom) would denote a prisoner’s I.D. The second (for example, 215) would refer to the intelligence branch responsible for his or her death. Underneath these figures, in many cases, would appear the hospital case-file number (for example, 2487/B). Such documentation is reminiscent of schemes used by the Nazis during World War II and is eerily reminiscent of an image bank collected by the Khmer Rouge during their Cambodian reign of terror in the 1970s.

According to David Crane, a war-crimes prosecutor who helped put Liberian strongman Charles Taylor away for half a century, the system of organizing and recording the dead served three ends: to satisfy Syrian authorities that executions were carried out; to ensure that no one was improperly discharged; and to allow military judges to represent to families—by producing official-seeming death certificates—that their loved ones had died of natural causes. In many ways, these facilities were ideal for hiding “unwanted” individuals, alive or dead. As part of the Ministry of Defense, the hospitals were already fortified, which made it easy to shield their inner workings and keep away families who might come looking for missing relatives. “These hospitals provide cover for the crimes of the regime,” said Nawaf Fares, a top Syrian diplomat and tribal leader who defected in 2012. “People are brought into the hospitals, and killed, and their deaths are papered over with documentation.” When I asked him, during a recent interview in Dubai, Why involve the hospitals at all?, he leaned forward and said, “Because mass graves have a bad reputation.”

That's a start. We can also move on to the barrel bombings and the horrific and indiscriminate nature of their injuries. A type of bomb designed not just to kill but to maim all within reach with horrific injuries. Targets were civilian populations. http://www.newsweek.com/united-nations-assads-barrel-bombs-continue-kill-syrian-civilians-347782

If your intention was to start a serious discussion, why do you only post anti-Assad propaganda shit, then?

So here comes the reply this nonsense deserves:

Kobane reduced to ashes by US air force, not Syrian "barrel bombs":

Abu Ghraib, US torture prison:

So before you show up with propaganda against Syria that cannot be bolstered by evidence, go and ask this question about your own government.

My intention was to present my point of view on Assad - and you are free to refute it or not. Just as you were free to create your own thread had you so wished.

Instead of refuting it, you try and deflect it by complaining about the US's actions. I'm no supporter of our actions in regards to Abu Ghraib, "extraordinary rendition" or a host of other actions that were nothing more than cover ups for torture. You are wasting your time here. If you've gotten that out of your system, let's discuss Assad. If you are calling it propoganda - then disprove it.

However - my government has not bombed it's pwn civilians. I consider that a plus.

If something has happened or not is not up to someone´s view to decide. You have randomly taken propaganda and present it as facts, though you have no evidence. Before you tell me the Syrian governments bombs its "own" civilians, you need to have evidence, which you cannot have. What you are doing is basically echoing Islamist´s propaganda.

So you are claiming that everything that points to Assad is "propoganda"?

What evidence do you have to support that?

 

[Bleipriester]

He's proven his inability to govern and has broken his contract to his people through massive civilian attacks.

Not true.

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

What, when I create a pdf file telling you have been bombing even 2000 civilians in December. Will you have been sitting in a bomber bombing civilians because of the pdf file?

 

[Bleipriester]

At this point it's a total unkown - there is no legitimate governance in Syria, just territory held. I started a new thread on Assad specifically.

Yes, there is: The Syrian government.

What "Syrian government"? Assad? ISIS? Where are there any indications of governance?

ISIS? Are you kidding?
The Syrian government is working on all levels of governing. It pays the wages, does all its jobs while fighting the terrorists. As long as you have no clue what is going on in Syria, you better get information before you discuss the topic.

Apparently so does ISIS in the territories it is holding...in it's own special brutal way.

Then go the fuck to your beloved ISIS group that loves civilians more than Assad does and is a regular government that does do government tasks in your opinion.

 

[Bleipriester]

This is a spin off from another thread.

Does Assad deserve support and to maintain his regime?

Consider his actions:
When a photographer-archivist working for Syria’s military police defected with grisly evidence of the regime’s brutality, he became a war-crimes whistle-blower.

Caesar and his squad, using Fuji and Nikon digital cameras, would painstakingly photograph the remains of people from all walks of life: men, women, young, old, Sunnis, Christians. The security forces responsible for the killings even went after Alawites, the close-knit Islamic sect to which Assad and the rest of the ruling elite belong. (Some of the bodies, as is evident in Caesar’s photographs, arrived with what turned out to be an ironic marking—a tattoo of Bashar al-Assad’s face.) While a number of the victims, according to Syrian opposition figures, might be considered anti-regime activists, the rest simply found themselves for whatever reason on the wrong side of the regime. In many cases, sources say, individuals had merely been detained at checkpoints by guards who found their loyalties suspect based on their religion, where they lived, or even their demeanor.

These unfortunates may have lived and died in different ways, but they were bound in death by coded numerals scribbled on their skin with markers, or on scraps of paper affixed to their bodies. The first set of numbers (for example, 2935 in the photographs at bottom) would denote a prisoner’s I.D. The second (for example, 215) would refer to the intelligence branch responsible for his or her death. Underneath these figures, in many cases, would appear the hospital case-file number (for example, 2487/B). Such documentation is reminiscent of schemes used by the Nazis during World War II and is eerily reminiscent of an image bank collected by the Khmer Rouge during their Cambodian reign of terror in the 1970s.

According to David Crane, a war-crimes prosecutor who helped put Liberian strongman Charles Taylor away for half a century, the system of organizing and recording the dead served three ends: to satisfy Syrian authorities that executions were carried out; to ensure that no one was improperly discharged; and to allow military judges to represent to families—by producing official-seeming death certificates—that their loved ones had died of natural causes. In many ways, these facilities were ideal for hiding “unwanted” individuals, alive or dead. As part of the Ministry of Defense, the hospitals were already fortified, which made it easy to shield their inner workings and keep away families who might come looking for missing relatives. “These hospitals provide cover for the crimes of the regime,” said Nawaf Fares, a top Syrian diplomat and tribal leader who defected in 2012. “People are brought into the hospitals, and killed, and their deaths are papered over with documentation.” When I asked him, during a recent interview in Dubai, Why involve the hospitals at all?, he leaned forward and said, “Because mass graves have a bad reputation.”

That's a start. We can also move on to the barrel bombings and the horrific and indiscriminate nature of their injuries. A type of bomb designed not just to kill but to maim all within reach with horrific injuries. Targets were civilian populations. http://www.newsweek.com/united-nations-assads-barrel-bombs-continue-kill-syrian-civilians-347782

If your intention was to start a serious discussion, why do you only post anti-Assad propaganda shit, then?

So here comes the reply this nonsense deserves:

Kobane reduced to ashes by US air force, not Syrian "barrel bombs":

Abu Ghraib, US torture prison:

So before you show up with propaganda against Syria that cannot be bolstered by evidence, go and ask this question about your own government.

My intention was to present my point of view on Assad - and you are free to refute it or not. Just as you were free to create your own thread had you so wished.

Instead of refuting it, you try and deflect it by complaining about the US's actions. I'm no supporter of our actions in regards to Abu Ghraib, "extraordinary rendition" or a host of other actions that were nothing more than cover ups for torture. You are wasting your time here. If you've gotten that out of your system, let's discuss Assad. If you are calling it propoganda - then disprove it.

However - my government has not bombed it's pwn civilians. I consider that a plus.

If something has happened or not is not up to someone´s view to decide. You have randomly taken propaganda and present it as facts, though you have no evidence. Before you tell me the Syrian governments bombs its "own" civilians, you need to have evidence, which you cannot have. What you are doing is basically echoing Islamist´s propaganda.

So you are claiming that everything that points to Assad is "propoganda"?

What evidence do you have to support that?

The lack of evidence for anti-government propaganda tales.

 

[browsing deer]

Something must be done to stop the bloodletting in syria. But all I see is more and more actors doing more and worse stuff.

The first thing that has to happen ids Assad has to go. I am not going to predict that everything will be roses when he is gone, but it wont get any worse.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Does Assad deserve support and to maintain his regime?

In that part of the world the choice only seems to be either dictators or extremist theocrats. The dictators seem to have done a better job of keeping relative peace in the region. In most cases, once they have been deposed Muslim extremists take over and things get much worse, ie. Iraq, Libya, Iran.

 

[Coyote]

He's proven his inability to govern and has broken his contract to his people through massive civilian attacks.

Not true.

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

What, when I create a pdf file telling you have been bombing even 2000 civilians in December. Will you have been sitting in a bomber bombing civilians because of the pdf file?

You're not making any sense.

 

[Bleipriester]

Not true.

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

What, when I create a pdf file telling you have been bombing even 2000 civilians in December. Will you have been sitting in a bomber bombing civilians because of the pdf file?

You're not making any sense.

Sure I do. If you think there are journalists or human right activists independently working on the ground held by Al-Qaeda and its allies, you must be a very naive fool.

 

[Freeman]

 

[Freeman]

He has not attacked civilians?

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

What, when I create a pdf file telling you have been bombing even 2000 civilians in December. Will you have been sitting in a bomber bombing civilians because of the pdf file?

You're not making any sense.

Sure I do. If you think there are journalists or human right activists independently working on the ground held by Al-Qaeda and its allies, you must be a very naive fool.

So Human Rights NGO are working for Alqaeda?!!

 

[Bleipriester]

No.

Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Civilian deaths: 85% killed by government forces according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

What, when I create a pdf file telling you have been bombing even 2000 civilians in December. Will you have been sitting in a bomber bombing civilians because of the pdf file?

You're not making any sense.

Sure I do. If you think there are journalists or human right activists independently working on the ground held by Al-Qaeda and its allies, you must be a very naive fool.

So Human Rights NGO are working for Alqaeda?!!

I know what happens to those, who do not cooperate. It was you, by the way, who claimed, Sotloff has been sold to ISIS by the government.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/steven-sotloff-moderate-rebels-sold-his-location-to-isis-militants-for-50000-9721606.html

 

[aris2chat]

This is a spin off from another thread.

Does Assad deserve support and to maintain his regime?

Consider his actions:
When a photographer-archivist working for Syria’s military police defected with grisly evidence of the regime’s brutality, he became a war-crimes whistle-blower.

Caesar and his squad, using Fuji and Nikon digital cameras, would painstakingly photograph the remains of people from all walks of life: men, women, young, old, Sunnis, Christians. The security forces responsible for the killings even went after Alawites, the close-knit Islamic sect to which Assad and the rest of the ruling elite belong. (Some of the bodies, as is evident in Caesar’s photographs, arrived with what turned out to be an ironic marking—a tattoo of Bashar al-Assad’s face.) While a number of the victims, according to Syrian opposition figures, might be considered anti-regime activists, the rest simply found themselves for whatever reason on the wrong side of the regime. In many cases, sources say, individuals had merely been detained at checkpoints by guards who found their loyalties suspect based on their religion, where they lived, or even their demeanor.

These unfortunates may have lived and died in different ways, but they were bound in death by coded numerals scribbled on their skin with markers, or on scraps of paper affixed to their bodies. The first set of numbers (for example, 2935 in the photographs at bottom) would denote a prisoner’s I.D. The second (for example, 215) would refer to the intelligence branch responsible for his or her death. Underneath these figures, in many cases, would appear the hospital case-file number (for example, 2487/B). Such documentation is reminiscent of schemes used by the Nazis during World War II and is eerily reminiscent of an image bank collected by the Khmer Rouge during their Cambodian reign of terror in the 1970s.

According to David Crane, a war-crimes prosecutor who helped put Liberian strongman Charles Taylor away for half a century, the system of organizing and recording the dead served three ends: to satisfy Syrian authorities that executions were carried out; to ensure that no one was improperly discharged; and to allow military judges to represent to families—by producing official-seeming death certificates—that their loved ones had died of natural causes. In many ways, these facilities were ideal for hiding “unwanted” individuals, alive or dead. As part of the Ministry of Defense, the hospitals were already fortified, which made it easy to shield their inner workings and keep away families who might come looking for missing relatives. “These hospitals provide cover for the crimes of the regime,” said Nawaf Fares, a top Syrian diplomat and tribal leader who defected in 2012. “People are brought into the hospitals, and killed, and their deaths are papered over with documentation.” When I asked him, during a recent interview in Dubai, Why involve the hospitals at all?, he leaned forward and said, “Because mass graves have a bad reputation.”

That's a start. We can also move on to the barrel bombings and the horrific and indiscriminate nature of their injuries. A type of bomb designed not just to kill but to maim all within reach with horrific injuries. Targets were civilian populations. http://www.newsweek.com/united-nations-assads-barrel-bombs-continue-kill-syrian-civilians-347782

Do you have any sources that aren't linked to the CFR, the RIIA, or the round table group?

What are CFR, RIIA and the round table group?

British Royal Institute for International Affairs and Council on Foreign Relations

They are referring the Bilderberg Group and conspiracy theories of the Illuminati/Masons

 

[aris2chat]

criminal
war criminal
crimes against humanity
use of chemical weapons against his own people
torture
massacre
brutality
racial genocide
religious genocide
terrorism
........................

What religious and racial genocide?

Sunni, druze, kurds, jews

It began with his father and continues with him.
Syria's Civil War Has Become a Genocide | World Policy Institute

His father not only massacres his won people but he tried to massacre different races and religions in Lebanon.

 

[Freeman]

criminal
war criminal
crimes against humanity
use of chemical weapons against his own people
torture
massacre
brutality
racial genocide
religious genocide
terrorism
........................

What religious and racial genocide?

Sunni, druze, kurds, jews

It began with his father and continues with him.
Syria's Civil War Has Become a Genocide | World Policy Institute

His father not only massacres his won people but he tried to massacre different races and religions in Lebanon.

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