Are You Guys Ready For Your National ID Cards?

[Shogun]

indeed, with outpatient practices all across the country making invasive procedures as difficult as a vasectomy your paranoia is certainly well founded. For chists sake we offer the same technology for missing pets.. but not missing kids.

BRILLIANT.


Hey, maybe you can ask the parents of a missing child about the morals of chipping children. They will probably agree that avoiding black 'copters and the antichrist are more important.


CANCER in rats? So yu have evidence that RF chips cause cancer or are you assuming a causal relationship despite FDA approval? We certainly have a chipped dogs and cats dying off in droves, don't we?


Flouride is a mind control agent too, dude. for realz.

 

[NuclearWinter]

indeed, with outpatient practices all across the country making invasive procedures as difficult as a vasectomy your paranoia is certainly well founded. For chists sake we offer the same technology for missing pets.. but not missing kids.

BRILLIANT.


Hey, maybe you can ask the parents of a missing child about the morals of chipping children. They will probably agree that avoiding black 'copters and the antichrist are more important.


CANCER in rats? So yu have evidence that RF chips cause cancer or are you assuming a causal relationship despite FDA approval? We certainly have a chipped dogs and cats dying off in droves, don't we?


Flouride is a mind control agent too, dude. for realz.

First of all, I don't have a problem with someones choice to get themselves chipped. I have a huge problem with a chip mandate. I will never accept it, and I don't want some ladies missing kid being the result of me getting chipped. People go missing everyday, for many different reasons. If the kid doesn't want the chip, but the parent insists, thats not good either.

And yes, the chip causes cancer. Look it up. I'll get into that more later.

Besides, you have completely sidestepped my original point. Which had nothing to do with the RFID chip, it had to do with the REAL ID act. You mentioned nothing about why it's a great idea. You started rambling about the RFID implantable body micro-chip. The two are not the same.

 

[Shogun]

I have looked it up and I've seen nothing that proves a CAUSAL relationship. By all means, prove your accusation.


you asked for "I'd have more respect for people like you if you offered a reason as to why the REAL ID was a wonderful idea" and I provided you with an example why RF chips are a wonderful idea. Given the CLEAR benefit of such your paranoia is less than impressive. Is it time to dance?


I don't care if you accept it. We don't force the Amish to drive cars either so enjoy your non-flouride treated tapwater too. If it's your kid next on the milk carton you can gather your own resources for the man-hunt instead of draining the public resources for the sake of your aversion to modern technology.


REAl ID? fine. Illegal Aliens. I can tell you as a person who works in HR what the value of a real ID would be by giving you example after example of social security cards being created BY ILLEGALS with bubble jetprinters and a scanner.

another? Voter Fraud. Kinda hard to vote twice if you have to prove who you are before pulling a lever, eh?


The irony of your position is that you already have a social security number which is no less impervious to abusive tracking than any other personal identifier. What makes me pretty sure you aren't burning the number that you have to submit every time you are employed, fill out a legal document, make a major sales transaction or any of the other areas in your life where you are associated with a traceable number?



You hear that? of course you don't. Black 'copters are silenced with technology stored at hanger 18!

 

[NuclearWinter]

I have looked it up and I've seen nothing that proves a CAUSAL relationship. By all means, prove your accusation.


you asked for "I'd have more respect for people like you if you offered a reason as to why the REAL ID was a wonderful idea" and I provided you with an example why RF chips are a wonderful idea. Given the CLEAR benefit of such your paranoia is less than impressive. Is it time to dance?


I don't care if you accept it. We don't force the Amish to drive cars either so enjoy your non-flouride treated tapwater too. If it's your kid next on the milk carton you can gather your own resources for the man-hunt instead of draining the public resources for the sake of your aversion to modern technology.


REAl ID? fine. Illegal Aliens. I can tell you as a person who works in HR what the value of a real ID would be by giving you example after example of social security cards being created BY ILLEGALS with bubble jetprinters and a scanner.

another? Voter Fraud. Kinda hard to vote twice if you have to prove who you are before pulling a lever, eh?


The irony of your position is that you already have a social security number which is no less impervious to abusive tracking than any other personal identifier. What makes me pretty sure you aren't burning the number that you have to submit every time you are employed, fill out a legal document, make a major sales transaction or any of the other areas in your life where you are associated with a traceable number?



You hear that? of course you don't. Black 'copters are silenced with technology stored at hanger 18!

Tell you what son. How bout you post what you researched? Because I don't believe you did. lol.

And....I bet in 2 seconds I could find all kinds of articles proving the connection.

Problem is son...everybody wanna be a balla...but nobody wanna be a shot calla. lol. Go on pimp.

 

[NuclearWinter]

On a serious note though, my arguement as to why REAL ID is a horrible idea has already been presented in this thread.

I weighed what you said with what I have posted, and I still think REAL ID is a horrible idea. Go figure hey? I don't know...call me crazy but....Illegal Aliens? I think they are here to stay. lol. I don't think REAL ID is gonna change that. Especially since the agenda setters are pusing for a North American Union.

What REAL ID will do...is compromise our security even more...create massive debt for states, lock down tight restrictions on US CITIZENS (Not illegals) and move us closer and closer to a police-state.

 

[NuclearWinter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state <---- Police-State definition.

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=police+state+

Pimp.

 

[Shogun]

Tell you what son. How bout you post what ,you researched? Because I don't believe you did. lol.
And....I bet in 2 seconds I could find all kinds of articles proving the connection.
Problem is son...everybody wanna be a balla...but nobody wanna be a shot calla. lol. Go on pimp.

I'll call your bluff. I look forward to your evidence that proves a causal relationship between RF chips and cancer.


To date, about 2,000 of the so-called radio frequency identification, or RFID, devices have been implanted in humans worldwide, according to VeriChip Corp. The company, which sees a target market of 45 million Americans for its medical monitoring chips, insists the devices are safe, as does its parent company, Applied Digital Solutions, of Delray Beach, Fla.

"We stand by our implantable products which have been approved by the FDA and/or other U.S. regulatory authorities," Scott Silverman, VeriChip Corp. chairman and chief executive officer, said in a written response to AP questions.

The company was "not aware of any studies that have resulted in malignant tumors in laboratory rats, mice and certainly not dogs or cats," but he added that millions of domestic pets have been implanted with microchips, without reports of significant problems.

"In fact, for more than 15 years we have used our encapsulated glass transponders with FDA approved anti-migration caps and received no complaints regarding malignant tumors caused by our product."

The FDA also stands by its approval of the technology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/08/AR2007090800997_pf.html


John Halamka, MD, an emergency-room doctor at Beth Israel Deaconess, has one of the chips implanted in the back of his right arm, between the elbow and the shoulder. An account of his impressions appears in the July 28 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine.

"A small amount of anesthetic is injected before the implantation is done, so the actual implant insertion feels just like receiving a vaccine -- a bit of pressure, not specific pain," Halamka writes WebMD in an email. "The chip has not had any impact on my self-image. I think of it as just another technology that provides practical value for me, such as my BlackBerry."

"If a chip could also serve as a GPS, reporting my location, or act as an emergency transponder, requesting rescue, I would definitely upgrade," he says.

http://www.webmd.com/news/20050727/chip-implants-better-care-privacy-scare?page=2


RFID chips are a good idea. RFID chips that can help locate people and objects are a better idea. RFID chips implanted in pets and people are the best idea of all. Let me illustrate how committed I am to this idea.

I have two children, a boy and a girl. When my son was born 12 years ago, the obstetrician asked within hours of his birth if I wanted to have him circumcised. This is a common practice for boys, so I didn't hesitate to say yes. Of course, it is a medical procedure, and in hindsight, I wish I'd thought about it for more than 35 seconds.

Now imagine a world where the doctor had, instead, asked me if I wanted my son "chipped." Here's how that conversation might have gone:

Doctor: "Mr. Ulanoff, it's a simple and virtually painless procedure."

Me: "You mean there's no cutting? No blood?"

Doctor: "Well, no. There is cutting and blood, but it's a small incision and there's very little blood."

Me: "Sounds like it'll hurt my son."

Doctor: "We use a local anesthetic, and the RFID implant will mean your child can be readily identified in the hospital."

Me: "What? Wait. Why would he need it here in the hospital? Are you telling me that babies have been stolen from here?"

Doctor: "Ahem. Er, no. But in the extremely unlikely event that your son is, uh, snatched, he would never make it through the hospital doors because his chip would be synced with your wrist bracelet. If your child left the building without you and your bracelet, which also has RFID, an alarm would sound."

Me: "Um, well, 'chipping' him seems kind of extreme for tracking him while he's in the hospital. I mean, he's only here a day and a half."

Doctor: "True, Mr. Ulanoff, but your son will benefit from the chip after he leaves the hospital, as will you and your wife. This RFID chip has GPS, a unique identifier, and near-field communication. There's even talk of adding credit card info when he turns 21, so he can shop by waving his arm over the check-out counter."—next: All that, in...my...son? >

Me: "All that, in...my...son?"

Doctor: "Yes. And with all of these technologies, you'll always know where your son is, where he's going, and what he's doing. You'll appreciate it even more when he becomes a teenager. If he tells you he's at his friend Chuck's house, you can look at a Web site and see if he's really there or if he's actually exiting a movie theater."

Me: "Seems a little like spying."

Doctor: "Trust me, Mr. Ulanoff. I have two teenage sons. Spying comes with the territory."

Me: "Who else will be able to 'see' my son?"

Doctor: "Only the people you choose [[and the Department of Homeland Security]]. You can block access to his unique ID. But if he can't be found, then you can, for example, register his ID number with the Department of Justice's Amber Alert program (www.amberalert.gov) to help find him and bring him home."

Me: "Wow. So this can stay in his body for his whole life?"

Doctor: "Yes."

Me: "Won't it get infected or become uncomfortable?"

Doctor: "It's a medical-grade capsule, and it does not interact with surrounding tissue."

Me: "But, Doc, he can have it removed at any time, right?"

Doctor: "Yes, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's not easily removed, and the scar might be larger than you or he really want."

Me: "I don't know. I like the idea of knowing where he is. If he gets lost, this means I'll be able to find him. I remember being lost as a kid. It was so scary. I wandered around crying."

Doctor: "Uh, yes, Mr. Ulanoff, but let's remember that this is about your son. I need your permission. Keep in mind that 35 percent of today's children get the implant and most before the age of 2."

Me: "I guess we should."

Doctor: "Yes, it's probably a good idea. Think of how much harder this will be to do when your son is older."

Me: "Gotcha. Okay, put it in. Oh, and about the circumcision?"

Doctor: "Oh, Mr. Ulanoff, we stopped doing those years ago."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,28172176544,00.asp



Vasectomy: What to Expect

How is a vasectomy done?
A vasectomy is usually done in your doctor's office or in an outpatient surgery center. The operation takes about half an hour. You'll be awake during the procedure. Your doctor will give you a local anesthetic to numb your scrotum.

After you're numb, your doctor will cut a small opening (an incision) on one side of your scrotum and pull out part of the vas deferens on that side. You may feel some tugging and pulling. A small section of the vas deferens is removed. The ends of the vas deferens will be sealed by stitching them shut, by searing them shut with heat, or by using another method. Your doctor will then do the same thing on the other side.

Your doctor will close the 2 openings in your scrotum with stitches. After 3 to 10 days, the stitches will disappear by themselves.
http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/men/reproductive/195.html


Fake IDs critical and easy to get
To get the Social Security card he needed for his first job in America, all Francisco had to do was go to the flea market on Airline Drive and fork over $30 to a man who was selling them.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3502003.html

Border Street: Social Security numbers fuel fake dance with IRS
Between them, the Construction Worker and his Fast-Food Worker Wife worked five jobs last year using three different Social Security numbers. Two were fake. One for him. One for her. The third belonged to a U.S. citizen friend. Since the Construction Worker was using the friend's identification, he says it will be up to the friend to file income taxes.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/mar/12/bborder-streetb-social-security-numbers-fuel-irs/

The Identity Makers
In the age of terror, are the people who make fake identification documents for the Hispanic community noble public servants -- or national security risks?

Fake Social Security cards, like this one, cost $40 to $50 in the Mission.
http://www.sfweekly.com/photoGallery/index.php?id=319820&p=1


Woman Accused Of Using Fake Social Security Cards Under Arrest
Identity Theft Suspect Is In Country Illegally
Marta Dean, whose real name is Martha Bencoma Ramirez, is accused of using two invalid Social Security cards and of stealing the identity of a disabled man in Wheat Ridge.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/7newsinvestigates/10496200/detail.html


20 locals accused of using fake Social Security cards
The investigation was complicated, Sink said, because many of those charged were also using fictitious names.

Of the 16 people arrested in St. Lucie County, 12 worked at Bates Plants, a nursery and landscaping business at 15001 W. Angle Road in Fort Pierce.

Most of them told investigators they were in the country illegally. Several said they bought the Social Security cards in West Palm Beach and paid between $40 to $150 for them, according to the reports.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1846647/posts


FOREIGNERS OBTAIN SOCIAL SECURITY ID WITH FAKE PAPERS
Tens of thousands of foreigners are illegally obtaining Social Security numbers by using fake documents, a typical first step to identity theft and other crimes, but federal officials still have not found a way to search immigration records to prevent the practice, federal investigators say.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9505EFDC1538F933A15756C0A9649C8B63


Providence woman is charged with selling
fake immigration & Social Security cards
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ri/press_release/may2006/pensoy_calel.pdf


Suspected illegal immigrant accused of having fake Social Security number
HAMILTON — A Chinese man in the country illegally faces deportation and criminal charges after attempting to use a fake Social Security number to obtain a driver's license, according to the Butler County Sheriff's Office.
http://www.journal-news.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/30/hjn013108China.html




Ok, tonto. Your turn. This should be fun.

 

[Shogun]

On a serious note though, my arguement as to why REAL ID is a horrible idea has already been presented in this thread.

I weighed what you said with what I have posted, and I still think REAL ID is a horrible idea. Go figure hey? I don't know...call me crazy but....Illegal Aliens? I think they are here to stay. lol. I don't think REAL ID is gonna change that. Especially since the agenda setters are pusing for a North American Union.

What REAL ID will do...is compromise our security even more...create massive debt for states, lock down tight restrictions on US CITIZENS (Not illegals) and move us closer and closer to a police-state.

I think that you will have about as much evidence of such as you are going to find when googling "rf chips cause cancer". I don't really care if you think illegals are here to stay while they are out, today, using fake IDs because the social security card can be reproduced with a bubble jet printer. it's an ID. Not some manchurian suggestion to the subconscious.

 

[Shogun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state <---- Police-State definition.

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=police+state+

Pimp.

yea yea yea.. we've all read 1984. You wouldn't know a police state if it hit you with a baton.

 

[NuclearWinter]

I'll call your bluff. I look forward to your evidence that proves a causal relationship between RF chips and cancer.


To date, about 2,000 of the so-called radio frequency identification, or RFID, devices have been implanted in humans worldwide, according to VeriChip Corp. The company, which sees a target market of 45 million Americans for its medical monitoring chips, insists the devices are safe, as does its parent company, Applied Digital Solutions, of Delray Beach, Fla.

"We stand by our implantable products which have been approved by the FDA and/or other U.S. regulatory authorities," Scott Silverman, VeriChip Corp. chairman and chief executive officer, said in a written response to AP questions.

The company was "not aware of any studies that have resulted in malignant tumors in laboratory rats, mice and certainly not dogs or cats," but he added that millions of domestic pets have been implanted with microchips, without reports of significant problems.

"In fact, for more than 15 years we have used our encapsulated glass transponders with FDA approved anti-migration caps and received no complaints regarding malignant tumors caused by our product."

The FDA also stands by its approval of the technology.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/08/AR2007090800997_pf.html


John Halamka, MD, an emergency-room doctor at Beth Israel Deaconess, has one of the chips implanted in the back of his right arm, between the elbow and the shoulder. An account of his impressions appears in the July 28 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine.

"A small amount of anesthetic is injected before the implantation is done, so the actual implant insertion feels just like receiving a vaccine -- a bit of pressure, not specific pain," Halamka writes WebMD in an email. "The chip has not had any impact on my self-image. I think of it as just another technology that provides practical value for me, such as my BlackBerry."

"If a chip could also serve as a GPS, reporting my location, or act as an emergency transponder, requesting rescue, I would definitely upgrade," he says.

http://www.webmd.com/news/20050727/chip-implants-better-care-privacy-scare?page=2


RFID chips are a good idea. RFID chips that can help locate people and objects are a better idea. RFID chips implanted in pets and people are the best idea of all. Let me illustrate how committed I am to this idea.

I have two children, a boy and a girl. When my son was born 12 years ago, the obstetrician asked within hours of his birth if I wanted to have him circumcised. This is a common practice for boys, so I didn't hesitate to say yes. Of course, it is a medical procedure, and in hindsight, I wish I'd thought about it for more than 35 seconds.

Now imagine a world where the doctor had, instead, asked me if I wanted my son "chipped." Here's how that conversation might have gone:

Doctor: "Mr. Ulanoff, it's a simple and virtually painless procedure."

Me: "You mean there's no cutting? No blood?"

Doctor: "Well, no. There is cutting and blood, but it's a small incision and there's very little blood."

Me: "Sounds like it'll hurt my son."

Doctor: "We use a local anesthetic, and the RFID implant will mean your child can be readily identified in the hospital."

Me: "What? Wait. Why would he need it here in the hospital? Are you telling me that babies have been stolen from here?"

Doctor: "Ahem. Er, no. But in the extremely unlikely event that your son is, uh, snatched, he would never make it through the hospital doors because his chip would be synced with your wrist bracelet. If your child left the building without you and your bracelet, which also has RFID, an alarm would sound."

Me: "Um, well, 'chipping' him seems kind of extreme for tracking him while he's in the hospital. I mean, he's only here a day and a half."

Doctor: "True, Mr. Ulanoff, but your son will benefit from the chip after he leaves the hospital, as will you and your wife. This RFID chip has GPS, a unique identifier, and near-field communication. There's even talk of adding credit card info when he turns 21, so he can shop by waving his arm over the check-out counter."&#8212;next: All that, in...my...son? >

Me: "All that, in...my...son?"

Doctor: "Yes. And with all of these technologies, you'll always know where your son is, where he's going, and what he's doing. You'll appreciate it even more when he becomes a teenager. If he tells you he's at his friend Chuck's house, you can look at a Web site and see if he's really there or if he's actually exiting a movie theater."

Me: "Seems a little like spying."

Doctor: "Trust me, Mr. Ulanoff. I have two teenage sons. Spying comes with the territory."

Me: "Who else will be able to 'see' my son?"

Doctor: "Only the people you choose [[and the Department of Homeland Security]]. You can block access to his unique ID. But if he can't be found, then you can, for example, register his ID number with the Department of Justice's Amber Alert program (www.amberalert.gov) to help find him and bring him home."

Me: "Wow. So this can stay in his body for his whole life?"

Doctor: "Yes."

Me: "Won't it get infected or become uncomfortable?"

Doctor: "It's a medical-grade capsule, and it does not interact with surrounding tissue."

Me: "But, Doc, he can have it removed at any time, right?"

Doctor: "Yes, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's not easily removed, and the scar might be larger than you or he really want."

Me: "I don't know. I like the idea of knowing where he is. If he gets lost, this means I'll be able to find him. I remember being lost as a kid. It was so scary. I wandered around crying."

Doctor: "Uh, yes, Mr. Ulanoff, but let's remember that this is about your son. I need your permission. Keep in mind that 35 percent of today's children get the implant and most before the age of 2."

Me: "I guess we should."

Doctor: "Yes, it's probably a good idea. Think of how much harder this will be to do when your son is older."

Me: "Gotcha. Okay, put it in. Oh, and about the circumcision?"

Doctor: "Oh, Mr. Ulanoff, we stopped doing those years ago."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,28172176544,00.asp



Vasectomy: What to Expect

How is a vasectomy done?
A vasectomy is usually done in your doctor's office or in an outpatient surgery center. The operation takes about half an hour. You'll be awake during the procedure. Your doctor will give you a local anesthetic to numb your scrotum.

After you're numb, your doctor will cut a small opening (an incision) on one side of your scrotum and pull out part of the vas deferens on that side. You may feel some tugging and pulling. A small section of the vas deferens is removed. The ends of the vas deferens will be sealed by stitching them shut, by searing them shut with heat, or by using another method. Your doctor will then do the same thing on the other side.

Your doctor will close the 2 openings in your scrotum with stitches. After 3 to 10 days, the stitches will disappear by themselves.
http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/men/reproductive/195.html


Fake IDs critical and easy to get
To get the Social Security card he needed for his first job in America, all Francisco had to do was go to the flea market on Airline Drive and fork over $30 to a man who was selling them.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3502003.html

Border Street: Social Security numbers fuel fake dance with IRS
Between them, the Construction Worker and his Fast-Food Worker Wife worked five jobs last year using three different Social Security numbers. Two were fake. One for him. One for her. The third belonged to a U.S. citizen friend. Since the Construction Worker was using the friend's identification, he says it will be up to the friend to file income taxes.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/mar/12/bborder-streetb-social-security-numbers-fuel-irs/

The Identity Makers
In the age of terror, are the people who make fake identification documents for the Hispanic community noble public servants -- or national security risks?

Fake Social Security cards, like this one, cost $40 to $50 in the Mission.
http://www.sfweekly.com/photoGallery/index.php?id=319820&p=1


Woman Accused Of Using Fake Social Security Cards Under Arrest
Identity Theft Suspect Is In Country Illegally
Marta Dean, whose real name is Martha Bencoma Ramirez, is accused of using two invalid Social Security cards and of stealing the identity of a disabled man in Wheat Ridge.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/7newsinvestigates/10496200/detail.html


20 locals accused of using fake Social Security cards
The investigation was complicated, Sink said, because many of those charged were also using fictitious names.

Of the 16 people arrested in St. Lucie County, 12 worked at Bates Plants, a nursery and landscaping business at 15001 W. Angle Road in Fort Pierce.

Most of them told investigators they were in the country illegally. Several said they bought the Social Security cards in West Palm Beach and paid between $40 to $150 for them, according to the reports.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1846647/posts


FOREIGNERS OBTAIN SOCIAL SECURITY ID WITH FAKE PAPERS
Tens of thousands of foreigners are illegally obtaining Social Security numbers by using fake documents, a typical first step to identity theft and other crimes, but federal officials still have not found a way to search immigration records to prevent the practice, federal investigators say.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9505EFDC1538F933A15756C0A9649C8B63


Providence woman is charged with selling
fake immigration & Social Security cards
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ri/press_release/may2006/pensoy_calel.pdf


Suspected illegal immigrant accused of having fake Social Security number
HAMILTON &#8212; A Chinese man in the country illegally faces deportation and criminal charges after attempting to use a fake Social Security number to obtain a driver's license, according to the Butler County Sheriff's Office.
http://www.journal-news.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/30/hjn013108China.html




Ok, tonto. Your turn. This should be fun.

lol. All you have there is a statement from the company itself saying that they can't find a relation between cancer and their chip. lol. Gee, if I was that company, I wouldn't be able to find a relation between cancer and my company's chip either. A no brainer.

And 1 guy (who happens to be a doctor), talking about how he hasn't had any problems with his chip (yet). Making him a doctor doesn't mean he specializes in cancer research. lol. For all we know he could be the guy who puts people to sleep before surgery.

And the rest....nonsense.

I will post my findings about the chip when I get to the chip section of this thread. Right now we are supposed to be focusing on REAL ID. You seem to want to be jumping the gun Shogun.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Ok, tonto. Your turn. This should be fun.

Alright Pimp,

How about the fact that The Real ID Act requires that states ensure the physical and electronic security of identification materials. The act does not set standards for that security, but instead puts millions of individuals' sensitive personal information - a goldmine for identity thieves - right out into the open?

Or how about the fact that the results of 2005 survey of state motor vehicles agencies conducted by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) reveal that those officials have deep concerns over the Real ID Act, and believe it will require extensive changes to existing practices at motor vehicles departments, and that it will be extremely difficult to implement by the act's deadline, and that it will be very expensive to carry out? The survey makes clearer than ever that the Real ID Act would be a disaster for states, drivers, taxpayers, and citizens.

Or, pimp, how about the fact that the Real ID Act would federalize state driver's license and identity cards by imposing a broad array of regulations on how they are designed, issued, and verified - turning them into what are, for all practical purposes, America's first-ever national identity cards?

And you seem to be forgetting the fact that the Act was rammed through Congress without proper hearings, debate, expert input, or an up-or-down vote, and that it fails to reflect the realities and complexities of real-world motor vehicle agencies in the 50 states.

Read the survey Bra.

This is all starkly revealed by the survey, in which officials in those agencies (called "DMV's" in many states) describe their concerns about the task of complying with this sprawling federal mandate. In written responses that are often scathing, plaintive, befuddled, or anxious, DMV officials from 50 U.S. jurisdictions collectively paint a picture of a gargantuan overhaul of the nation's diverse driver's license and identity bureaucracies.

The survey, which was first reported by the Associated Press, makes two things very clear. First, the DMVs are beginning to understand just what a tangled mess they are facing in having to try to comply with Real ID. And second, those effects will soon be felt by individual drivers and residents. In addition to worrying about the ominous privacy implications of creating a system of federal identity papers, Americans under Real ID are looking at a future of longer lines and worsening service at the DMV, more complicated document requirements, higher fees and/or taxes, bureaucratic dead-ends, and, for many, an outright denial of IDs - even as those IDs are made more indispensable for living a normal life. (Further analysis of the burdens Real ID poses for the states is available in the document "Real Burdens.")

Your turn Playa.

 

[Shogun]

lol. All you have there is a statement from the company itself saying that they can't find a relation between cancer and their chip. lol. Gee, if I was that company, I wouldn't be able to find a relation between cancer and my company's chip either. A no brainer.

And 1 guy (who happens to be a doctor), talking about how he hasn't had any problems with his chip (yet). Making him a doctor doesn't mean he specializes in cancer research. lol. For all we know he could be the guy who puts people to sleep before surgery.

And the rest....nonsense.

I will post my findings about the chip when I get to the chip section of this thread. Right now we are supposed to be focusing on REAL ID. You seem to want to be jumping the gun Shogun.

Again, you are the one making accusations of a CAUSAL relationship and so you are the one who gets to prove as much. I can't wait to see your solid evidence of a CAUSAL relationship.


As far as the rest, obviously you are bright enough to see the necessity of a real ID with the ID theft epidemic. I'm glad my effort in providing evidence is not lost on you.

 

[Shogun]

Alright Pimp,

How about the fact that The Real ID Act requires that states ensure the physical and electronic security of identification materials. The act does not set standards for that security, but instead puts millions of individuals' sensitive personal information - a goldmine for identity thieves - right out into the open?

Or how about the fact that the results of 2005 survey of state motor vehicles agencies conducted by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) reveal that those officials have deep concerns over the Real ID Act, and believe it will require extensive changes to existing practices at motor vehicles departments, and that it will be extremely difficult to implement by the act's deadline, and that it will be very expensive to carry out? The survey makes clearer than ever that the Real ID Act would be a disaster for states, drivers, taxpayers, and citizens.

Or, pimp, how about the fact that the Real ID Act would federalize state driver's license and identity cards by imposing a broad array of regulations on how they are designed, issued, and verified - turning them into what are, for all practical purposes, America's first-ever national identity cards?

And you seem to be forgetting the fact that the Act was rammed through Congress without proper hearings, debate, expert input, or an up-or-down vote, and that it fails to reflect the realities and complexities of real-world motor vehicle agencies in the 50 states.

Read the survey Bra.

This is all starkly revealed by the survey, in which officials in those agencies (called "DMV's" in many states) describe their concerns about the task of complying with this sprawling federal mandate. In written responses that are often scathing, plaintive, befuddled, or anxious, DMV officials from 50 U.S. jurisdictions collectively paint a picture of a gargantuan overhaul of the nation's diverse driver's license and identity bureaucracies.

The survey, which was first reported by the Associated Press, makes two things very clear. First, the DMVs are beginning to understand just what a tangled mess they are facing in having to try to comply with Real ID. And second, those effects will soon be felt by individual drivers and residents. In addition to worrying about the ominous privacy implications of creating a system of federal identity papers, Americans under Real ID are looking at a future of longer lines and worsening service at the DMV, more complicated document requirements, higher fees and/or taxes, bureaucratic dead-ends, and, for many, an outright denial of IDs - even as those IDs are made more indispensable for living a normal life. (Further analysis of the burdens Real ID poses for the states is available in the document "Real Burdens.")

Your turn Playa.

Are you, like, 9 years old or did you skip class the day they explained how to cite your sources? Sorry, Im just not one of those "take your word for it" kinda guys when people like you start whipping out "facts"

Not to mention that you didn't even remotely provide evidence of a causal link between cancer and RF chips.

also... dude... a SURVEY? really? a SURVEY?

USMB is a real bastion of neurons today, lemme tellya.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Again, you are the one making accusations of a CAUSAL relationship and so you are the one who gets to prove as much. I can't wait to see your solid evidence of a CAUSAL relationship.


As far as the rest, obviously you are bright enough to see the necessity of a real ID with the ID theft epidemic. I'm glad my effort in providing evidence is not lost on you.

You are assuming that the ID theft epidemic will be solved with the REAL ID. It won't.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Are you, like, 9 years old or did you skip class the day they explained how to cite your sources? Sorry, Im just not one of those "take your word for it" kinda guys when people like you start whipping out "facts"

Not to mention that you didn't even remotely provide evidence of a causal link between cancer and RF chips.

also... dude... a SURVEY? really? a SURVEY?

USMB is a real bastion of neurons today, lemme tellya.

Well Broseph, speaking of quoting, why don't I quote for you what the states have been commenting about the REAL ID?

Besides, what you don't realizen Shogun is that unfortunately, although it is motor vehicle departments that are beginning to feel the heat now, it will ultimately be individuals - as drivers, taxpayers, and citizens who will pay the price for this misguided legislation.

Real ID will mean Longer waits at the DMV. Many states predict increases in "customer wait times." Arizona, for example, reports that Real ID will bring increased "customer traffic flow and customer wait/visit time in all field offices" and New Jersey that it will have a "significant influence on customer service." Does that sound like fun to you? It doesn't to me.

With Real ID, there will be no more same-day licenses. Real ID "could largely prevent 'instant' or 'over the counter' (OTC) issuance of some or all of our DLs and IDs" in Illinois, and "will probably move Indiana from relatively instant issuance to having to mail documents to them." Nevada predicts that "the process for issuing a driver's license or identification card could range from 2 to 6 weeks pending approval of verified documents."

"There will also be fewer offices with Real ID. "Initial cost estimates indicate that . . .WI may have to close some itinerant field stations, especially if there are no federal funds available." (Wisconsin)

There will be no more Internet or mail transactions. In Illinois Real ID would reduce or end mail and Internet address changes and renewals; likewise Virginia warns starkly that "Renewal through alternative methods will be eliminated."

Document inconvenience. "We will have to significantly reduce the number and type of acceptable documents used." (Illinois)

No more mobile offices. Real ID "may significantly limit mobile unit use, perhaps make mobiles impractical." (Illinois)

 

[NuclearWinter]

And worst comes to worst I do have the ability to put it down on you like a catholic priest on a 14 year old boy.

Look, Brotherman, honestly, thats a little scary. And I don't swing that way. Besides, you're getting side tracked again.

 

[Shogun]

You are assuming that the ID theft epidemic will be solved with the REAL ID. It won't.

How do you figure? If I could run a REAL ID like a debit card at the point of hire, instead of having to hire an illegal in order to circumvent charges of discrimination, in order to even check to see if the given ID is valid, then employers would not be stuck in a catch 22 situtation where in order to uphold the law they must break it. Further, the immediate feedback would indicate eligibility for employment months sooner than it takes the federal I-9 to process. NOT to mention that hard plastic with a magnetic strip is a lot tougher to replicate with a bubble jet printer.


so, I've given my opinion as to why a real ID would go a long way in affecting illegal immigration. Maybe you can elaborate beyond "it wont work" as to why you think otherwise.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Well, give me a second to respond...

 

[Shogun]

Well Broseph, speaking of quoting, why don't I quote for you what the states have been commenting about the REAL ID?

Besides, what you don't realizen Shogun is that unfortunately, although it is motor vehicle departments that are beginning to feel the heat now, it will ultimately be individuals - as drivers, taxpayers, and citizens who will pay the price for this misguided legislation.

Real ID will mean Longer waits at the DMV. Many states predict increases in "customer wait times." Arizona, for example, reports that Real ID will bring increased "customer traffic flow and customer wait/visit time in all field offices" and New Jersey that it will have a "significant influence on customer service." Does that sound like fun to you? It doesn't to me.

With Real ID, there will be no more same-day licenses. Real ID "could largely prevent 'instant' or 'over the counter' (OTC) issuance of some or all of our DLs and IDs" in Illinois, and "will probably move Indiana from relatively instant issuance to having to mail documents to them." Nevada predicts that "the process for issuing a driver's license or identification card could range from 2 to 6 weeks pending approval of verified documents."

"There will also be fewer offices with Real ID. "Initial cost estimates indicate that . . .WI may have to close some itinerant field stations, especially if there are no federal funds available." (Wisconsin)

There will be no more Internet or mail transactions. In Illinois Real ID would reduce or end mail and Internet address changes and renewals; likewise Virginia warns starkly that "Renewal through alternative methods will be eliminated."

Document inconvenience. "We will have to significantly reduce the number and type of acceptable documents used." (Illinois)

No more mobile offices. Real ID "may significantly limit mobile unit use, perhaps make mobiles impractical." (Illinois)

I'm not going to consider anything you post unless you provide a link to your source.

and... WAIT TIMES AT THE DMV? yes, clearly more important than national security and illegal aliens. as if 8 million mexicans vieing for drivers lisences don't add to the wait.

 

[NuclearWinter]

Ok. lookey here though Shogun...

National IDs would violate privacy by helping to consolidate data. There is an enormous and ever-increasing amount of data being collected about Americans today. Ones grocery store, for example, might use a loyalty card to keep detailed records of what you buy, while Amazon keeps records of what you read, the airlines keep track of where you fly, and so on. This can be an invasion of privacy, but our privacy has actually been protected by the fact that all this information still remains scattered across many different databases. But once the government, landlords, employers, or other powerful forces gain the ability to draw together all this information, our privacy will really be destroyed. And that is exactly what a national identity system would facilitate.