Are you an ideologue?

[Wiseacre]

Do you think you are a moderate or an extremist?

Do you think your side always right?

Or do you think maybe the other side is right once in awhile?

Me: moderate, somtimes a little right on some issues, sometimes a little left

NO

Not very damn often

 

[Alan Stallion]

Do you think you are a moderate or an extremist?

Do you think your side always right?

Or do you think maybe the other side is right once in awhile?

Me: moderate, somtimes a little right on some issues, sometimes a little left

NO

Not very damn often

Typically, politics is seen as linear, where ideologues are seen as defenders of each end of the line. However, politics is more complex.

Example, slavery and freedom are opposites/extremes on a linear scale. Tyranny vs Liberty. Injustice vs. justice. All opposites/extremes. And what would a "moderate" position be; where does moderation fall, between slavery and freedom, between tyranny and liberty, between injustice and justice? Moderation and compromise was tried and failed miserably in regards to slavery in the United States, and still affects politics to this day and likely always will.

Instead of viewing one end of the linear model, let's imagine that linear-extremist end as the center of the target and the other end as the outer ring. So instead of an inflexible extremist, we see the center of the target as righteous and ideal, uncompromising in defending justice and civil rights, and anything beyond as missing the mark, as an encroachment, as an erosion into injustice, into tyranny, into oppression, into slavery, no matter how noble-sounding the countering proposals are presented.

Anti-slavery activist and politician William Wilberforce said, "If to be feelingly alive to the sufferings of my fellow-creatures is to be a fanatic, I am one of the most incurable fanatics ever permitted to be at large."

So should a "fanatic" as Wilberforce be marginalized by mere labels, for believing in a righteous cause in the name of freedom and human decency, for not compromising in his goals? Or a Frederick Douglass? I would hope not.

I've been called an ideologue, an extremist, a puritan, for the beliefs I have, especially within my political party affiliation. My side is my beliefs, not whatever political party I am a member of, and I have yet to see my beliefs be in error. I have no regrets.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Very rarely will an ideologue admit to, or even REALIZE that, they're an ideologue. They seem to convince themselves that, not only are their views always mainstream, but anyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy and must be stopped, for the "good of" whatever.

So thinking you're mainstream is part of being an ideologue! How cool is that! Woot!

.

 

[Mac1958]

.

What it's like trying to "debate" with a partisan ideologue:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218]Monty Python - Dead Parrot - YouTube[/ame]

"What's wrong with it?"

"It's dead, that's what wrong with it"

"No it's not, it's just resting, look"

"Look my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now"

"No no, it's not dead, it's just resting"

Deny, deny, deny, divert, divert divert. Ain't worth the effort.

.

 

[Steelplate]

you tell me what I am....I am pro-labor and pro union. I am pro-gun and pro welfare reform. I believe that if people aren't hurting others....we have no right to regulate or legislate their sins(or judge them for that matter).

I am a Christian, however....and while I am morally opposed to things such as abortion...I am also an American and realize that my religion should not dictate rule of law in this country otherwise we will be no better than radical Islamic countries.

I believe we ARE our brother's keeper and we, as a society have an obligation to take care of our poor, afflicted and elderly. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a return on that investment of our tax dollars. This includes things such as Health Care and Education.

so....where do I stand? I consider. myself a left of center moderate.

 

[Missourian]

I used to think I was an extremist, but four years on USMB has taught me that I am a moderate.

 

[Mac1958]

I used to think I was an extremist, but four years on USMB has taught me that I am a moderate.

.

 

[chikenwing]

Pro life, anti death penalty,fiscal conservative with a streak of libertarian .

Not happy with ether party

 

[Wry Catcher]

you tell me what I am....I am pro-labor and pro union. I am pro-gun and pro welfare reform. I believe that if people aren't hurting others....we have no right to regulate or legislate their sins(or judge them for that matter).

I am a Christian, however....and while I am morally opposed to things such as abortion...I am also an American and realize that my religion should not dictate rule of law in this country otherwise we will be no better than radical Islamic countries.

I believe we ARE our brother's keeper and we, as a society have an obligation to take care of our poor, afflicted and elderly. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a return on that investment of our tax dollars. This includes things such as Health Care and Education.

so....where do I stand? I consider. myself a left of center moderate.

While I agree with all of your beliefs I wonder how "pro-gun" you are. I support the right of a sane, sober and sensible person to own, possess and have under their custody and control a firearm for home defense, target shooting and/or hunting.

I oppose semi-automatic firearms for the civilian population and I supported the Brady Bill though I don't believe it want far enough.

I too see myself as a moderate Democrat, fiscally conservative, a pragmatist and a humanist within the teachings of Jesus, which, many times seems to be antithetical within Christianity as practiced by the Christian Conservative movement.

 

[Shelzin]

Do you think you are a moderate or an extremist?

I believe that truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. It just dumbfounds me what some people see attractive.

Anyone can feel free to think of me as anything they want. Doesn't really change anything if we don't find the same kind of things attractive.

Do you think your side always right?

Considering I'm always on the same side, mine, then yes... At a given moment in time I am right. Always. However when/and/or/if new information or a different way of looking at a problem comes along I could change my view.

Now I answered that question as I assumed you meant it from a philosophical angle. Obviously science or math I or anyone else can be wrong.

Or do you think maybe the other side is right once in awhile?

Of course. When they logically explain their position on something I might change my own views. Now does that mean that my previous position was wrong now that I changed it to something else? No... I don't think so. I think that I just didn't have enough information to come to the correct solution. It was right when I made it.

 

[chanel]

I believe in the 2nd amendment, with common sense restrictions.

I believe in the right to choose, with common sense restrictions.

I believe in health and safety regs, designed with common sense.

I believe unions have their place, but have gotten too powerful.

I believe lobbying has its place, but has gotten too powerful.

I believe in social safety nets, but am angry they have become abused.

I believe in legal immigration, but am angry that it has become abused.

I believe in a fair tax policy where everyone has skin in the game.

I believe the federal government has an important role, but has become an insatiable beast.

I like roads.

Does that make me a Democrat?

I respect idealogues. I may not agree with them, but it bothers me that they have been labeled "extremists". People who stick to their principals may seem radical, but at least they are not hypocrites.

Politicians however, need to work together. Sometimes that requires compromise. Integrity involves knowing what is negotiable; and what is not. That's a challenging balance.

 

[bripat9643]

.

Very rarely will an ideologue admit to, or even REALIZE that, they're an ideologue. They seem to convince themselves that, not only are their views always mainstream, but anyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy and must be stopped, for the "good of" whatever.

So thinking you're mainstream is part of being an ideologue! How cool is that! Woot!

.

Bullshit. I admit to being an idealogue and what turds like you would call an "extremist." I call it having principles and applying them consistently. Of course, there are countless leftwingers who won't admit they are "extremists." That's because they know Americans reject socialism out of hand.

 

[bripat9643]

.

What it's like trying to "debate" with a partisan ideologue:

"What's wrong with it?"

"It's dead, that's what wrong with it"

"No it's not, it's just resting, look"

"Look my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now"

"No no, it's not dead, it's just resting"

Deny, deny, deny, divert, divert divert. Ain't worth the effort.

.

One could say the same thing about debating with a self described "pragmatist." How do they know their views are "pragmatic?" Because they believe them. A "moderate" always claims some mixture of two positions is the ideal. How does he know that? He just does.

 

[bripat9643]

you tell me what I am....I am pro-labor and pro union. I am pro-gun and pro welfare reform. I believe that if people aren't hurting others....we have no right to regulate or legislate their sins(or judge them for that matter).

I am a Christian, however....and while I am morally opposed to things such as abortion...I am also an American and realize that my religion should not dictate rule of law in this country otherwise we will be no better than radical Islamic countries.

I believe we ARE our brother's keeper and we, as a society have an obligation to take care of our poor, afflicted and elderly. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a return on that investment of our tax dollars. This includes things such as Health Care and Education.

so....where do I stand? I consider. myself a left of center moderate.

You're a liberal. Issues like gun control would be important if it wasn't for the socialist behemoth government bearing down on us. The fundamental issue concerns who gets to spend your money, you or the government. You clearly favor a bigger government that spends more of your money. You're also pro-union, which is the opposite of being pro-labor.

 

[Wry Catcher]

.

What it's like trying to "debate" with a partisan ideologue:

"What's wrong with it?"

"It's dead, that's what wrong with it"

"No it's not, it's just resting, look"

"Look my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now"

"No no, it's not dead, it's just resting"

Deny, deny, deny, divert, divert divert. Ain't worth the effort.

.

One could say the same thing about debating with a self described "pragmatist." How do they know their views are "pragmatic?" Because they believe them. A "moderate" always claims some mixture of two positions is the ideal. How does he know that? He just does.

I'm fairly certain you're nuts. I'm not sure that qualifies you as an ideologue or as an extremist.

 

[bripat9643]

you tell me what I am....I am pro-labor and pro union. I am pro-gun and pro welfare reform. I believe that if people aren't hurting others....we have no right to regulate or legislate their sins(or judge them for that matter).

I am a Christian, however....and while I am morally opposed to things such as abortion...I am also an American and realize that my religion should not dictate rule of law in this country otherwise we will be no better than radical Islamic countries.

I believe we ARE our brother's keeper and we, as a society have an obligation to take care of our poor, afflicted and elderly. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect a return on that investment of our tax dollars. This includes things such as Health Care and Education.

so....where do I stand? I consider. myself a left of center moderate.

While I agree with all of your beliefs I wonder how "pro-gun" you are. I support the right of a sane, sober and sensible person to own, possess and have under their custody and control a firearm for home defense, target shooting and/or hunting.

I oppose semi-automatic firearms for the civilian population and I supported the Brady Bill though I don't believe it want far enough.

I too see myself as a moderate Democrat, fiscally conservative, a pragmatist and a humanist within the teachings of Jesus, which, many times seems to be antithetical within Christianity as practiced by the Christian Conservative movement.

You're pro gun control, obviously. Every gun control crank claims he believes guns should be legal for "legitimate hunting purposes," but the 2nd Amendment doesn't make distinctions about "legitmate purposes" and "illigitimate purposes."

 

[bripat9643]

I'm fairly certain you're nuts. I'm not sure that qualifies you as an ideologue or as an extremist.

Your beliefs qualify you as an imbecile and a hypocrite.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Very rarely will an ideologue admit to, or even REALIZE that, they're an ideologue. They seem to convince themselves that, not only are their views always mainstream, but anyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy and must be stopped, for the "good of" whatever.

So thinking you're mainstream is part of being an ideologue! How cool is that! Woot!

.

Bullshit. I admit to being an idealogue and what turds like you would call an "extremist." I call it having principles and applying them consistently. Of course, there are countless leftwingers who won't admit they are "extremists." That's because they know Americans reject socialism out of hand.

I suppose it depends on what one consider to be a partisan ideologue. It has been my consistent experience that partisan ideologues deploy spin, denial, diversion, deflection, distortion, hyperbole, omission and outright lies so that they can "apply their principles consistently", and they appear to do it as second nature. And since those tactics are intellectually dishonest, ideologues really have no credibility.

But that's just me. I'm sure you have The Truth on your side, no doubt.

.

 

[bripat9643]

.

Very rarely will an ideologue admit to, or even REALIZE that, they're an ideologue. They seem to convince themselves that, not only are their views always mainstream, but anyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy and must be stopped, for the "good of" whatever.

So thinking you're mainstream is part of being an ideologue! How cool is that! Woot!

.

Bullshit. I admit to being an idealogue and what turds like you would call an "extremist." I call it having principles and applying them consistently. Of course, there are countless leftwingers who won't admit they are "extremists." That's because they know Americans reject socialism out of hand.

I suppose it depends on what one consider to be a partisan ideologue. It has been my consistent experience that partisan ideologues deploy spin, denial, diversion, deflection, distortion, hyperbole, omission and outright lies so that they can "apply their principles consistently", and they appear to do it as second nature. And since those tactics are intellectually dishonest, ideologues really have no credibility.

It's been my experience that so-called "moderates" do exactly the same thing. Most are lying when they call themselves "moderates." Every left-winger in Congress calls himself a moderate. The term has become virtually meaningless as a result.

 

[Mac1958]

Bullshit. I admit to being an idealogue and what turds like you would call an "extremist." I call it having principles and applying them consistently. Of course, there are countless leftwingers who won't admit they are "extremists." That's because they know Americans reject socialism out of hand.

I suppose it depends on what one consider to be a partisan ideologue. It has been my consistent experience that partisan ideologues deploy spin, denial, diversion, deflection, distortion, hyperbole, omission and outright lies so that they can "apply their principles consistently", and they appear to do it as second nature. And since those tactics are intellectually dishonest, ideologues really have no credibility.

It's been my experience that so-called "moderates" do exactly the same thing. Most are lying when they call themselves "moderates." Every left-winger in Congress calls himself a moderate. The term has become virtually meaningless as a result.

Yeah, I've heard Rush say that too. His attacks on moderates or independents or whatever are a perfect illustration of my sig.

.