Are There Other Industries with "Public Options" We Can Compare?

[AVG-JOE]

The first one that comes to mind is education.

As flawed as it is, if not for a public option in education, no matter how we solved the problem, my wife and I would have earned about 1/3 less during our child-rearing years.

I honestly believe that life would NOT be as good for us right now without a public option in education.

Too bad it is run so top-down inefficiently.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Public education is a great one. NYC spnds three times as much as a Charter school does and delivers less educated children for the money

Also, Medicare is another public option gone bad: it loses $60B annually to fraud, probably twice that to MedMal doctoring AND is TRILLIONS in the red and is going to leave a hole as big as the one that killed the dinosaurs.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Sure, lets look:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money each year
and it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working

"Cash for Clunkers" established in 2009 - and went broke in 2009!

 

[American Horse]

As flawed as it is, if not for a public option in education, no matter how we solved the problem, my wife and I would have earned about 1/3 less during our child-rearing years.

I honestly believe that life would NOT be as good for us right now without a public option in education.

Elucidate in terms of your own situation?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Public education is a great one. NYC spnds three times as much as a Charter school does and delivers less educated children for the money

Also, Medicare is another public option gone bad: it loses $60B annually to fraud, probably twice that to MedMal doctoring AND is TRILLIONS in the red and is going to leave a hole as big as the one that killed the dinosaurs.

Public Education does have a LOT of success stories. The higher up the socioeconomic scale the school district, the more it seems, but the point is that a 'public option' can work if created and managed at a local level.

If a company as small as Boeing Aircraft can self insure, why not a 'group' as large as a county?

Guarantee one thing - If we use the federal base for fairness and manage our various 'public options' at a local level, 50 years from now, our children will have more data to look at as they ponder the next 50 years.

More data is good, yes?

 

[The Rabbi]

Anyone who thinks the "public option" in education means it's free just doesn't get it.
Public education is paid by property taxes, which are paid by anyone who owns or rents real property. The results have been nothing short of horrendous: poor service at high prices.
This is exactly what a "public option" in health care will deliver.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Sure, lets look:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money each year
and it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working

"Cash for Clunkers" established in 2009 - and went broke in 2009!

They're broke because we allowed a series of sold-out to corporate lobbyist congresscritters and lap-dog presidents to mis-manage them, not because they were bad ideas.

There is a huge difference. Huge.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Sure, lets look:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money each year
and it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working

"Cash for Clunkers" established in 2009 - and went broke in 2009!

They're broke because we allowed a series of sold-out to corporate lobbyist congresscritters and lap-dog presidents to mis-manage them, not because they were bad ideas.

There is a huge difference. Huge.

Yes. Or, to put it another way: They're broke because they were run by the government.

So why give them more to mismanage? I agree with you about public education. I would love to see it managed more locally, and it actually has a chance for that to happen. Health reform? No way will the feds allow that to be managed locally.

So, no. No more things for them to mess up, mismanage and take more money from everyone. Bad Fed....bad!

 

[AVG-JOE]

As flawed as it is, if not for a public option in education, no matter how we solved the problem, my wife and I would have earned about 1/3 less during our child-rearing years.

I honestly believe that life would NOT be as good for us right now without a public option in education.

Elucidate in terms of your own situation?

I have no clue as to the meaning of this word! You stumped me......

My mix of private and public education fails me....

Shit happens.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Anyone who thinks the "public option" in education means it's free just doesn't get it.
Public education is paid by property taxes, which are paid by anyone who owns or rents real property. The results have been nothing short of horrendous: poor service at high prices.
This is exactly what a "public option" in health care will deliver.

I never said I thought it was free.

That estimate of 1/3 lower earnings definitely takes into consideration the slight reduction in federal, property and local sales taxes that removing education from the tax base would entail, but I don't think for a minute that the warped government system evolving around us, from town level to federal, isn't taxing me based on what I will pay and not on what it needs to feed itself.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Sure, lets look:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money each year
and it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working

"Cash for Clunkers" established in 2009 - and went broke in 2009!

They're broke because we allowed a series of sold-out to corporate lobbyist congresscritters and lap-dog presidents to mis-manage them, not because they were bad ideas.

There is a huge difference. Huge.

Yes. Or, to put it another way: They're broke because they were run by the government.

So why give them more to mismanage? I agree with you about public education. I would love to see it managed more locally, and it actually has a chance for that to happen. Health reform? No way will the feds allow that to be managed locally.

So, no. No more things for them to mess up, mismanage and take more money from everyone. Bad Fed....bad!

Because the track record for managing the sensitive health and financial data of the many individuals that comprise this nation by private, for profit bureaucracies is believed much worse by many.

 

[RadiomanATL]

They're broke because we allowed a series of sold-out to corporate lobbyist congresscritters and lap-dog presidents to mis-manage them, not because they were bad ideas.

There is a huge difference. Huge.

Yes. Or, to put it another way: They're broke because they were run by the government.

So why give them more to mismanage? I agree with you about public education. I would love to see it managed more locally, and it actually has a chance for that to happen. Health reform? No way will the feds allow that to be managed locally.

So, no. No more things for them to mess up, mismanage and take more money from everyone. Bad Fed....bad!

Because the track record for managing the health and financial data of the many individuals that comprise this nation by private, for profit, bureaucracies is believed much worse by many.

Maybe. But they have the option of leaving the company which they think is mismanaging their health care.

When the public "option" becomes the lone "option", there will be no "options" to go to when the feds inevitably screw that one up too.

 

[Annie]

Public education is a great one. NYC spnds three times as much as a Charter school does and delivers less educated children for the money

Also, Medicare is another public option gone bad: it loses $60B annually to fraud, probably twice that to MedMal doctoring AND is TRILLIONS in the red and is going to leave a hole as big as the one that killed the dinosaurs.

Public Education does have a LOT of success stories. The higher up the socioeconomic scale the school district, the more it seems, but the point is that a 'public option' can work if created and managed at a local level.

If a company as small as Boeing Aircraft can self insure, why not a 'group' as large as a county?

Guarantee one thing - If we use the federal base for fairness and manage our various 'public options' at a local level, 50 years from now, our children will have more data to look at as they ponder the next 50 years.

More data is good, yes?

Actually it's not necessarily or primarily the taxes that correlate with good public schools; rather it's the education and socioeconomic status of the parents of the attending students. If money alone would do it, some of the best scores should come out of inner city schools, where money from feds, state, county, and private businesses flow in.

 

[Zoom-boing]

As flawed as it is, if not for a public option in education, no matter how we solved the problem, my wife and I would have earned about 1/3 less during our child-rearing years.

I honestly believe that life would NOT be as good for us right now without a public option in education.

Elucidate in terms of your own situation?

I have no clue as to the meaning of this word! You stumped me......

My mix of private and public education fails me....

Shit happens.

Seriously . . . you wouldn't go look the word up to learn what it means and add it to your vocabulary? Cripes.

 

[rdean]

People are so funny. They whine about how awful the "public option" is and refuse to see the success.

US Military is a "Public Option"
The Post Office
The VA
Medicare
Medicaid
Public Schools
Public Colleges
City government
The Transit Authority

Look at Medicare. They argue about the "waste and fraud", yet Medicare spends 96 cents per dollar on it's patients. Private companies spend around 65 to 70 cents. That's why the CEO of Cigna makes nearly a quarter billion in his 5 year compensation plan. How many insurance policies do you have to "skim" to pay a quarter billion dollars?????????? Oops, once again, I just stopped the "master debaters with facts".

The Post Office works fine for those that can't afford UPS and want to send something to Mom for Christmas, even if it's only a post card.

The Military would have done a much better job if the Republicans had enlisted and funded it.

Other countries can band together and buy pharmaceuticals in bulk, which slashes the cost. During the Bush administration, the Republicans, working for the drug lobby, made it illegal for HMO's to consolidate and order in bulk. So what costs Iceland a nickel, cost 5 dollars here.

Under Clinton, the VA put together one of the best systems in the world. Every doctor must input his procedures, the drugs he uses, etc, into the VA database. You can compare medical effectiveness for hundreds of thousands of patients. Drugs that work on brain tumors, different therapies. One thing about science, always follow where the data leads and you will never go wrong. Unless you believe in "mystical Creation", 'cuz that's just made up BS. I always love the opportunity to point that out.

For those that had a hard time following the importance of a "medical data base", I will explain a little farther. With a Public Option, you could include data in the data base. That would be good for many reasons.

It's more difficult to commit fraud when you already know what medical procedures work and ones that are ineffective, it's called oversight.
The data base isn't just one big pool of data. It would be divided into liver, kidney, brain disorders, etc.
You could include physiological effects resulting from certain drugs or therapies.
Comparative cost analysis.

There are so many reasons to have a national data base, it doesn't make a lick of sense NOT to have one. You could even charge private insurance companies access to the data. Believe me, they would pay.

I get so tired of right wing stupidity and fear mongering. The US has the opportunity to make something good and once again, they just won't to screw it up and ruin it for everyone else.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yes. Or, to put it another way: They're broke because they were run by the government.

So why give them more to mismanage? I agree with you about public education. I would love to see it managed more locally, and it actually has a chance for that to happen. Health reform? No way will the feds allow that to be managed locally.

So, no. No more things for them to mess up, mismanage and take more money from everyone. Bad Fed....bad!

Because the track record for managing the health and financial data of the many individuals that comprise this nation by private, for profit, bureaucracies is believed much worse by many.

Maybe. But they have the option of leaving the company which they think is mismanaging their health care.

When the public "option" becomes the lone "option", there will be no "options" to go to when the feds inevitably screw that one up too.

I see it like with Social Security... Do you realize what your Social Security record contains? The boys and girls that are trained to access and maintain the most intensive data base of personal information the planet has ever seen protect that data because it is their job. They get paid the same no matter what, and local management is not in the million dollar bracket.

Nobody who works for SSA has a profit motive for the decisions they make, they just do what congress tells them to do.

It is the fault of We, The Voters that Congress is so corrupt and mis-managed.

 

[chanel]

Public education benefits the entire society. So do many of those other "social programs". But once it becomes a class war with ridiculously inept programs who only service the minority, the people paying for it get ticked off. Rightly.

How about a thank you every once in a while from the takers? Is that so much to ask for?

 

[RadiomanATL]

Because the track record for managing the health and financial data of the many individuals that comprise this nation by private, for profit, bureaucracies is believed much worse by many.

Maybe. But they have the option of leaving the company which they think is mismanaging their health care.

When the public "option" becomes the lone "option", there will be no "options" to go to when the feds inevitably screw that one up too.

I see it like with Social Security... Do you realize what your Social Security record contains? The boys and girls that are trained to access and maintain the most intensive data base of personal information the planet has ever seen protect that data because it is their job. They get paid the same no matter what, and local management is not in the million dollar bracket.

Nobody who works for SSA has a profit motive for the decisions they make, they just do what congress tells them to do.

It is the fault of We, The Voters that Congress is so corrupt and mis-managed.

So this means they will run healthcare differently.......how?????

 

[AVG-JOE]

Public education benefits the entire society. So do many of those other "social programs". But once it becomes a class war with ridiculously inept programs who only service the minority, the people paying for it get ticked off. Rightly.

How about a thank you every once in a while from the takers? Is that so much to ask for?

Of course not! The problem with public assistance is that we have made the process of obtaining it so complex that those of us who pay taxes are certain that never has there been a welfare mom who deserved the help, and truly needy people are required to hire lawyers to sue for help.

That part of the system is truly fucked up.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Maybe. But they have the option of leaving the company which they think is mismanaging their health care.

When the public "option" becomes the lone "option", there will be no "options" to go to when the feds inevitably screw that one up too.

I see it like with Social Security... Do you realize what your Social Security record contains? The boys and girls that are trained to access and maintain the most intensive data base of personal information the planet has ever seen protect that data because it is their job. They get paid the same no matter what, and local management is not in the million dollar bracket.

Nobody who works for SSA has a profit motive for the decisions they make, they just do what congress tells them to do.

It is the fault of We, The Voters that Congress is so corrupt and mis-managed.

So this means they will run healthcare differently.......how?????

Congress will run it just like they've run everything else for the last 3 generations: Of the corporate lobbyists, by the corporate lobbyists and for the corporate lobbyists. The only good news is that the current crop of corporate lobbyists are snarling over control of congress, so a few may be killed off on the process.

Just because Obama has thus far shown no stones for leadership doesn't mean a public option in the management of our health and financial data is a bad idea.