Are people good or bad?

[alang1216]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

Good and bad are not absolutes, they are relative to their culture. Were our slave-owning founding fathers good or evil? Evil by today's standards but good by those of their time. Apples and oranges.

 

[Votto]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

Good and bad are not absolutes, they are relative to their culture. Were our slave-owning founding fathers good or evil? Evil by today's standards but good by those of their time. Apples and oranges.

Yes and no.

As you point out, during the time of slavery the average consensus was that slavery was not ideal, but it was OK. After decades of being make illegal, however, the notion of slavery is absurdly evil.

The same can be said of abortion. Before Roe vs. Wade, the consensus was that abortion was not moral, but decades after Roe vs. Wade abortion is viewed as not ideal, but OK.

As you can see, people are nothing more than sheep to be herded and told by the state what is right or wrong, just as the Bible states.

The key to both, however, is dehumanizing the victims. In the case of slavery, men were viewed as glorified apes to justify the mistreatment of them, for you see, we all have an internal morality to treat others as we would want to be treated. The only way to then get around this internal policeman is to devalue the entity you wish to oppress, such as calling an unborn child a "fetus".

History is full of such examples, whether it be Nazi's calling Jews vermin or Muslims calling unbelievers infidels.

Dehumanization is the first step towards oppression and genocide.

 

[ding]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

After each step, God would sit back and say, and it was good.

Objectively, evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good. No different than darkness being the absence of light or cold being the absence of heat.

So man is inherently good but capable of evil (i.e. being absent of good).

 

[Michelle420]

50/50

 

[ding]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

Good and bad are not absolutes, they are relative to their culture. Were our slave-owning founding fathers good or evil? Evil by today's standards but good by those of their time. Apples and oranges.

They were good by any standard. They intended for slavery to perish and took steps to that end. It is just that American history has buried it.

And yes, right and wrong are absolutes. It is man that rationalizes that they aren't.

 

[ding]

Subjective ~ no factual response exists.

That's not true.

 

[ding]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

My hero, could be your villain. Life is competitive. So the answer to your question will vary, depending on who you ask...

So there are no universal heroes or villains?

Sounds about right...

I would say that Jesus is as close to universal good and Hitler is as close to universal evil as it gets.

Even Hitler did not do evil for evil's sake.

 

[Votto]

50/50

Everyone is 50/50?

 

[G.T.]

Subjective ~ no factual response exists.

That's not true.

It is, but I didnt post it to have a discussion on it with the kid's table. I was hoping to come across someone rational who disagrees, to have a discussion with.

 

[ding]

On the eternally pointless question of are people basically good or bad, what those in the latter camp always forget is that, if people are basically bad, then that includes themselves, and if it includes themselves it includes their judgment, which means the judgment they just made to get there carries its own suicide gene and that's the end of that.

Class dismissed.

That's an interesting point.

 

[Votto]

“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.” - Malcolm Muggeridge

My hero, could be your villain. Life is competitive. So the answer to your question will vary, depending on who you ask...

So there are no universal heroes or villains?

Sounds about right...

I would say that Jesus is as close to universal good and Hitler is as close to universal evil as it gets.

Even Hitler did not do evil for evil's sake.

But Hitler did some good. He put an economy back in order, built up the infrastructure, and ended a dark economic time. Hitler had the largest welfare state on earth as its citizen enjoyed a higher standard of living than anywhere else on earth.

Men like Al Capone even owned a soup kitchen for the poor.

Once you do "good", it legitimizes you and gives you power that you simply point to when people say you are "bad".

 

[Michelle420]

50/50

Everyone is 50/50?

No half of the world is good people and half bad people.

 

[Votto]

50/50

Everyone is 50/50?

No half of the world is good people and half bad people.

Wow, which are you?

 

[Michelle420]

50/50

Everyone is 50/50?

No half of the world is good people and half bad people.

Wow, which are you?

As good as I am capable of being.

 

[ding]

Subjective ~ no factual response exists.

That's not true.

It is, but I didnt post it to have a discussion on it with the kid's table. I was hoping to come across someone rational who disagrees, to have a discussion with.

You were wanting to discuss that there is no factual answer to the question are people good or bad?

I just listed the factual basis to the answer. In fact, I listed two.

 

[G.T.]

50/50

Everyone is 50/50?

No half of the world is good people and half bad people.

Wow, which are you?

As good as I am capable of being.

You are in the upper 1% of goodness, in my opinion.

 

[G.T.]

Subjective ~ no factual response exists.

That's not true.

It is, but I didnt post it to have a discussion on it with the kid's table. I was hoping to come across someone rational who disagrees, to have a discussion with.

You were wanting to discuss that there is no factual answer to the question are people good or bad?

I just listed the factual basis to the answer. In fact, I listed two.

I no longer read your posts concerning anything intellectual because I find you to be stupid.

Dont worry about my opinion - just keep it moving and talk to other folks about it.

 

[ding]

My hero, could be your villain. Life is competitive. So the answer to your question will vary, depending on who you ask...

So there are no universal heroes or villains?

Sounds about right...

I would say that Jesus is as close to universal good and Hitler is as close to universal evil as it gets.

Even Hitler did not do evil for evil's sake.

But Hitler did some good. He put an economy back in order, built up the infrastructure, and ended a dark economic time. Hitler had the largest welfare state on earth as its citizen enjoyed a higher standard of living than anywhere else on earth.

Men like Al Capone even owned a soup kitchen for the poor.

Once you do "good", it legitimizes you and gives you power that you simply point to when people say you are "bad".

I wasn't arguing that exactly. I was trying to say that when men do what some would perceive as evil, they don't do it for evil's sake. They do it for their own good. If you show me someone who worships evil and does evil for evil's sake, then I might have a different opinion.

Good and evil are not subjective. People are subjective.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The elite are wicked, and the masses are dumb, it can create a perpetual evil.

 

[ding]

Subjective ~ no factual response exists.

That's not true.

It is, but I didnt post it to have a discussion on it with the kid's table. I was hoping to come across someone rational who disagrees, to have a discussion with.

You were wanting to discuss that there is no factual answer to the question are people good or bad?

I just listed the factual basis to the answer. In fact, I listed two.

I no longer read your posts concerning anything intellectual because I find you to be stupid.

Dont worry about my opinion - just keep it moving and talk to other folks about it.

Way ahead of you, skippy.