Arctic ice thins dramatically

[polarbear]

Bipolar, nobody reads your silly rants.

As usual you are totally, completely, irrevocably, wrong.

It`s not the polar ice that`s shrinking it`s the iddy biddy brains that assholes like "OldRocks" have that shrink....
Look at the site that "wirebender" quoted to which this other asshole replied it`s an oil lobby/GW/holocaust/and so on denial site has,...
I found it quite by accident when I Googled for Satellite pictures showing the polar ice caps..:
Step one was...:
Google Image Result for http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/ARCHIVE/20080626.jpg

That brought up this picture which makes total crap out of the "shrinking polar ice"...:

So I gave it the once over and it is genuine:

FF D8 FF E0 00 10 4A 46 ÿØÿà JF
49 46 00 01 01 01 00 48 IF H
00 48 00 00 FF DB 00 43 H ÿÛ C
00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01

And when I clicked on the Google link to the web site that uses this picture I landed where Wirebender found this picture..:

and this web site which quite apparently does not engage in the kind of cheating as the "GW" alarmist do posts this...:

Ice Caps Melting?
(or More Pumped Hysteria from the Global-Warming Cons?)

[Today's Vocabulary Builder: "PBEM", or "Policy-based Evidence Making"]

PBEM The headlines last week brought us terrifying news: The North Pole will be ice-free this summer "for the first time in human history," wrote Steve Connor in The Independent. Or so the experts at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colorado predict. This sounds very frightening, so let's look at the facts about polar sea ice.

As usual, there are a couple of huge problems with the reports.

Firstly, the story is neither alarming nor unique.

In the August 29, 2000 edition of the New York Times, the same NSIDC expert, Mark Serreze, said:

"There's nothing to be necessarily alarmed about. There's been open water at the pole before. We have no clear evidence at this point that this is related to global climate change."

During the summer of 2000 there was "a large body of ice-free water about 10 miles long and 3 miles wide near the pole". Also in 2000, Dr Claire Parkinson at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center was quoted as saying: "The fact of having no ice at the pole is not so stunning."

Submarines regularly surface at the North Pole

So what is really going on at the poles?
The Tipping Point that wouldn't tip

Satellite records have been kept for polar sea ice over the last thirty years by the University Of Illinois. In 2007 2008, two very different records were set. The Arctic broke the previous record for the least sea ice area ever recorded, while the Antarctic broke the record for the most sea ice area ever recorded. Summed up over the entire earth, polar ice has remained constant. As seen below, there has been no net gain or loss of polar sea ice since records began.

Last week, Dr James Hansen from NASA spoke about how CO2 is affecting the polar ice caps.

"We see a tipping point occurring right before our eyes... The Arctic is the first tipping point and it's occurring exactly the way we said it would," he said.

Well, not exactly.

Hansen is only telling half the story. In the 1980s the same Dr Hansen wrote a paper titled Climate Sensitivity to Increasing Greenhouse Gases [pdf], in which he explained how CO2 causes "polar amplification." He predicted nearly symmetrical warming at both poles. As shown in Figure 2-2 from the article, Hansen calculated that both the Arctic and Antarctic would warm by 5-6 degrees Centigrade. His predictions were largely incorrect, as most of Antarctica has cooled and sea ice has rapidly expanded. The evidence does not support the theory.


In 2004, Dr Hansen returned to the subject. This time, he explained (pdf) that most of Arctic warming and melting is due to dirty snow from soot, not CO2.

"Soot snow/ice albedo climate forcing is not included in Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change evaluations. This forcing is unusually effective, causing twice as much global warming as a CO2 forcing of the same magnitude," he wrote.

Once the snow dirties, it absorbs sunlight, warms, and quickly melts. Then the land and air above warms, causing higher temperature readings. This affects the Arctic more than the Antarctic simply because there aren't many people living near the Antarctic. The Arctic is polluted by European cities and oil fields in Siberia - where gas flaring generates huge amounts of soot.

Editor's note: This is one in an occasional series examining "PBEM", or "Policy-based Evidence Making".

Did I ever have a good laugh...they nailed this same asshole that claimed the arctic "is contaminated" with soot from oil fields in Siberia "dirtying the snow" in the arctic...I was writing about a few months ago...this is the same moron that posed for a National Geographic Photo -op in front of some dirty snow and said that this is soot from Siberia and from our diesel exhaust pipes...never having seen how the 150 klicks + winds that howl all over Greenland and Ellesmere cause dust-storms that are every bit as bad as Sahara Sand Storms.


And the rest of my post is for our forum resident moron "OldRocks"...:

.aurenkaplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/melting-polar-ice-caps.jpg

49 46 00 01 02 00 00 64 IF d
00 64 00 00 FF EC 00 11 d ÿì
44 75 63 6B 79 00 01 00 Ducky
04 00 00 00 46 00 00 FF F ÿ
EE 00 26 41 64 6F 62 65 î &Adobe
00 64 C0 00 00 00 01 03 dÀ

/StudentDoc/current/ED101fa09/iwaitt/Images/ice-cap-melt1.jpg

FF D8 FF E0 00 10 4A 46 ÿØÿà JF
49 46 00 01 02 00 00 64 IF d
00 64 00 00 FF EC 00 11 d ÿì
44 75 63 6B 79 00 01 00 Ducky
04 00 00 00 3C 00 00 FF < ÿ
EE 00 0E 41 64 6F 62 65 î Adobe
00 64 C0 00 00 00 01 FF dÀ ÿ

globalwarmingsiren.com/wp-content/gallery/polar-ice-caps/greenland-ice-melt1.jpg



FF D8 FF E0 00 10 4A 46 ÿØÿà JF
49 46 00 01 02 00 00 64 IF d
00 64 00 00 FF EC 00 11 d ÿì
44 75 63 6B 79 00 01 00 Ducky

I could post more "Rubber Duck" evidence here than the usmessageboard.com/ server could possibly handle....its the entire ******* Internet "Data" on "Man made Global warming Satellite evidence"

 

[polarbear]

And here is a lecture on what is presently happening in the Arctic.

Of coures, I don't expect you to listen or look at them, Bender, but someone lurking with a reasonable level of intelligiance might wish to see what real scientists are stating.

agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/C24A.shitmaill

Hey can You follow these instructions or is that a bit too complicated for You..:...?

Its a lot less complicated than fibbing "NASASatellite Images" with Adobe photoshop DUCKY, like the REALLYwarmer Globheads you keep quoting do it

If You aquire some skills like coloring the snow in the arctic "dirty" Dr James Hansen might give You a job...he says that`s why the polar ice is "shrinking"....someone must have fucked up with Ducky, using the wrong airbrush color on the tool-bar of Adobe photoshop`s Ducky ....because even on his "geniune NASA Pictures" , the ice looks way too white

Hansen is only telling half the story. In the 1980s the same Dr Hansen wrote a paper titled Climate Sensitivity to Increasing Greenhouse Gases [pdf], in which he explained how CO2 causes "polar amplification." He predicted nearly symmetrical warming at both poles. As shown in Figure 2-2 from the article, Hansen calculated that both the Arctic and Antarctic would warm by 5-6 degrees Centigrade. His predictions were largely incorrect, as most of Antarctica has cooled and sea ice has rapidly expanded. The evidence does not support the theory.


In 2004, Dr Hansen returned to the subject. This time, he explained (pdf) that most of Arctic warming and melting is due to dirty snow from soot, not CO2.

"Soot snow/ice albedo climate forcing is not included in Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change evaluations. This forcing is unusually effective, causing twice as much global warming as a CO2 forcing of the same magnitude," he wrote.

;

;

;

;

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It`s important to stay updated in the field of computer technology, "Ducky" has become obsolete and the latest cry from Adobe Photoshop can outperform "Ducky" and has a new digital fingerprint..which will appear no doubt sooner than later in "updated Global warming Satellite imagery evidence"...:

45 Brilliant Examples of Photo Manipulation Art - Noupe Design Blog

45 Brilliant Examples of Photo Manipulation Art

The "Chog"..:

Vertical turn...:

And the latest Adobe image manipulation tool has the digital fingerprint of :
(apparently they had a lot of customer pressure to let "Ducky" off the fingerprint)
Now it`s almost as perfect as a tool a forger could want
00 06 04 04 04 05 04 06
05 05 06 09 06 05 06 09
0B 08 06 06 08 0B 0C 0A

Too bad, no more "pun" with Ducky, once "Global Warming Science" upgrades to Photoshop Pro CS5 or better

 

[wirebender]

In the written record, there has never been less ice than there is today in the Arctic.

The written record? I am laughing in your face. I provided you with a photographic record clearly showing open water at the fricking north pole and you want to say that there has never been less ice at the Arctic than there is today. How much kookaid do you consume every day?

As for the temperature and CO2 over geological time, here is a much more recent and accurate assessment, from the AGU 2009 Convention;

A23A

And here is a lecture on what is presently happening in the Arctic. Of coures, I don't expect you to listen or look at them, Bender, but someone lurking with a reasonable level of intelligiance might wish to see what real scientists are stating.

C24A

Once more, I am lauging in your face. You are consuming it by the gallon aren't you? Tell me, are you taking it by mouth or as a steady intravenious drip round the clock?

 

[polarbear]

As for the temperature and CO2 over geological time, here is a much more recent and accurate assessment, from the AGU 2009 Convention;

A23A

And here is a lecture on what is presently happening in the Arctic. Of coures, I don't expect you to listen or look at them, Bender, but someone lurking with a reasonable level of intelligiance might wish to see what real scientists are stating.

C24A

Wirebender You have to consider the "schoolbooks" morons like "OldRocks" had

Now he is trying to impress You with "intelligent people" that lurk somewhere backing him up....any time soon, just as soon as Al Gore quits throwing his love letters in the waste basket...

I don`t think he is heterosexual, and probably doesn`t have a wife ironing his pants...
and this might have happened :

But maybe not exactly like that, he probably plays that part in his personal relationships

And as for this..:

Once more, I am laughing in your face. You are consuming it by the gallon aren't you? Tell me, are you taking it by mouth or as a steady intravenous drip round the clock?

He prefers taking it rectally...

 

[Old Rocks]

BiPolar, once again, I don't bother to read your rants. Post real information, and stick to one subject per post. But, being who and what you are, that is not possible.

 

[westwall]

BiPolar, once again, I don't bother to read your rants. Post real information, and stick to one subject per post. But, being who and what you are, that is not possible.

He does! It would be nice if you did too!

 

[polarbear]

Max Planck Institute.

Max-Planck-Institut für Meteorologie: Which future emission pathway is required to limit the global warming to no more than 2°C above pre-industrial levels?

Which future emission pathway is required to limit the global warming to no more than 2°C above pre-industrial levels?
SciencePublication26.07.2010
This question is investigated by Erich Roeckner and co-authors at the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology (MPI-M) in a study entitled &#8221;Historical and future anthropogenic emission pathways derived from coupled climate-carbon cycle simulations&#8220;, recently published in the scientific journal &#8221;Climatic Change&#8221;.

The results are based on a pilot study performed within the EU-funded ENSEMBLES project. Using the MPI-M coupled climate-carbon cycle model the authors estimate the &#8221;allowable&#8221; CO2 emissions in a greenhouse gas stabilization scenario aimed at limiting global warming below the EU target of 2°C above pre-industrial levels. To this end an inverse method is applied allowing to reconstruct the future CO2 emissions from a prescribed pathway of atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

Results: Significant and early policy actions are required
...... if the simulations were extended further into the 22nd century.

;

;

;

;

;

;

Right off the bat, it`s made pretty clear what this hullabaloo is all about...it`s not about Science it`s about policy making

See this is what happens if you don`t read "rants"....as You term the technical details, and the only thing You read is what comes out of these "black boxes" that your little pea brain can`t understand...

So let`s take a look at the internal correspondence these "scientists" You quote say about their own MPI-Model shall we...?
I`m sure anybody but You will not think this is a "rant"

I`ll just post the "mother link here" because the rest of the science rants I am quoting are in the sub-links and all You have to do to verify is go to the main link and follow the tell tale trail...:

http://ensemblesrt3.dmi.dk/

3/3/2011
Dear all, please be careful with evaporation. I have looked at the evspsbl files recently, and I found that there are different sign conventions in use: Apparently MPI, ETHZ and CNRM have it positive downwards, i.e., mostly negative numbers. ICTP, KNMI, DMI, SMHI and HC use the opposite convention, with mostly positive numbers. I have not looked at the remaining institutes.
depending on your software: NetCDF CRU-interpolated files from the HC start with high latitude and go south, in contrast to everybody else. The "lat" array is correct, and the files are consistent. But, if you blindly read data from several models, you may get errors!

These issues should of course be corrected. But, I am afraid that we do not have many human resources available, so I can guarantee that it will take some time. Good luck!

removed the original CNRM A1B and KNMI ERA40 simulations, which have been replaced by newer versions years ago.

18/8/2010
There seems to be an error in the 50km-file SMHIRCA_A1B_ECHAM5_DM_50km_2091-2100_pr.nc.gz (gzip corrupted). It may take a while to regenerate it at the SMHI. 24/6/2010 11:40

The data for 209912 are bogus; this is a copy of 206912,

Finally, not all md5sums files have been up to date.
though I have no experience. Google came up with Download MD5 Checker 2.31 Free - A utility that can verify downloads with an MD5 checksum - Softpedia.

Comment break...
And that`s the "experts" assholes like You are quoting here

14/01/2010
Take care with CDO. I have been told that there is a serious problem when using the MPI tool CDO to handle monthly mean (MM) files, and have just realised how serious it is.

13/01/2010
Do you know by heart what a Rockel-box is? If not, look here. These European sub-areas have been used both in PRUDENCE and in ENSEMBLES for model intercomparison.

Comment break...:
That`s what scares the shit out of them, "Rocket Box" is a program that compare these **** head computer models and shows how idiotic these wildly different predictions were in a "hind-cast" mode

16/4/2007:
Erik van Meijgaard has found inconsistencies in several data sets. The SMHI data are being replaced by ones where the time variable is the same as for the other institutes. I am behind schedule in fixing flaws in other data sets
The UCLM files do not contain a grid_mapping variable "Lambert_Conformal". Instead these files contain a global attribute grid_mapping="lambert_conformal_conical" without parameter values.

Comment break..:
How many times have I told You already that these **** head computer models have this error in common..to no avail, because a retard like You has no idea what "Lambert_Conformal". means...here it is again..:

Remember when I tried to explan it to you in the other threads...?...does that jog your pea brain memory..:

I did tell You that these childish Models have solar radiation coming in at a 90 deg elevation angle all day long and year round as if the earth were flat

But let`s get back to the rantings our Your hero "scientists"...shall we...:
on the URL sub-links branching out from the mother URL

CORDEX: A COordinated Regional climate Downscaling EXperiment
Final specifications PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ole Bøssing Christensen
Monday, 11 April 2011 12:20

Dear colleagues,
As in all the final specifications until now, you may discover further errors and inconsistencies.
Please, go ahead and produce data!

Written by Ole Bøssing Christensen
Monday, 21 March 2011 09:49

Dear colleagues,

The first important message from the CORDEX meeting in Trieste this week is the following: It seems that modellers have been interpreting the original area specification document different from me. So, in the original document wrt. rotated lat/lon areas, the "corner" coordinates are centre coordinates of the corner point. In other words, the definition in my table in the specifications is one half grid point off.
Doubt about domain specs PDF Print E-mail
Written by Ole Bøssing Christensen
Wednesday, 16 March 2011 13:55

Dear all,

I just heard that there may be an error in the integration domain specifications in the original document, and therefore also in the specification table located here, which was based on that document! Probably, the definitions in the area document were NOT corners, as specified in the document, but centers of the corner points. This makes differences of 0.22 degrees most of the time. We will clear this up in Trieste next week, but you better wait a while.

In this archive we expect very large amounts of data. It will therefore not be possible to check consistency 100% from here.
In other words it is your responsibility to follow these specifications exactly if you want your data to be accessible and eventually be part of whatever studies and publications come out of the CORDEX effort.


Ole B. Christensen
DKC/Danish Meteorological Institute
Lyngbyvej 100
DK-2100 Copenhagen Ø
Denmark
Last Updated on Friday, 04 February 2011 11:41

PRUDENCE and what came after
ENSEMBLES and CORDEX
Scientific highlights of PRUDENCE

An article on "High-resolution climate modelling: Assessment, added value and applications" made it as a news item in Nature, 428, 593.
About the record-breaking heat wave that affected much of Europe in the summer of 2003: The Summer Heat Wave of 2003: A Signal of Climate Change? about how the 2003 summer is hardly consistent with the present probability distribution. It was very different from the heat waves recorded in 1947 and 1976,

Comment break...
See the "OldRocks" You moron, that`s the entire purpose of this crap,...this is not science it`s Propaganda Scheisters dressed in White Lab coats

11/7/2007:
Two important updates: The special issue of Climatic Change (Vol. 81 2007) concerning the PRUDENCE project is now available. And, I have removed the participants-only data from this server. This means that prudencerestricted.dmi.dk just points to this page. If you REALLY need the data, and if you are allowed (you probably are not...), then write me a mail.
PRUDENCE (2001-2004) was a European-scale investigation with the objectives:

to address and reduce deficiencies in projections of future climate change;

Comment break..
Does it finally sink into Your cement rock head why they can`t make their "data" public...?


This is from a site internal link...same parent URL which leads to one of their pdf files..:

http://ensemblesrt3.dmi.dk/RCM-cc-performance.pdf

In order to enable users of various impacts models to span the space of possible climate trajectories allowed by the A1B emission scenario, we shall give some rules of thumb. We have chosen to focus on four physical parameters:
Summer and winter change from the 1961-1990 reference period in
temperature and precipitation to a future period 2070-2099.
We shall only look at average values over the whole of Europe, and we shall compare eleven simulations.
These simulations are exactly those in the archive that cover the period 1951-2099. We have made the subjective choice to exclude simulations driven by the global models HadCM3Q3 and HadCM3Q16, which are versions of the HadCM3 model with perturbed parameterization (&#8220;low&#8221; and &#8220;high&#8221; climate sensitivity, respectively); the current climate is not simulated very well with these two models.

So, was that enough ranting for today...?

And to all the other fellows with a brain in their head..:
My God, thank God there is such a thing as "Global Warming Science"...
I shudder at the thought were these dope heads employed somewhere else.,,,like in Pharmacy dispensary , a Restaurant Kitchen, a McDonald`s drive through,...
I don`t dare think about the ramifications if these morons were AT-Controllers in Airport Towers, Pilots or in some sort of Engineering like for ex. Chemical Engineering..
So may be we are better off not apply the budget axe to this "science"
Bhopal would be the "norm"...OOOOPS our computer model fucked up again

 

[polarbear]

@Westwall
Every time something gets posted here, no matter by whom that shows what kind of crap this policy making "science" is doing with GW computer model predictions, "OldRocks" + his dummy friends either post a dozen stupid replies in a row, to put such a post a few pages back in the forum listing ...
But not this time, the last thing he wrote was:

BiPolar, once again, I don't bother to read your rants. Post real information, and stick to one subject per post. But, being who and what you are, that is not possible.

And now it seems we have this thread for ourselves...he`s is probably starting up yet another GW thread somewhere else as usual.

Well then perhaps it`s possible to point out the major math flaws these "Climatolgist" computer models all have in common...it`s not just confined to this example, which I found where they discuss their own data:
The ENSEMBLES project RT3

16/4/2007:
Erik van Meijgaard has found inconsistencies in several data sets. The SMHI data are being replaced by ones where the time variable is the same as for the other institutes. I am behind schedule in fixing flaws in other data sets
The UCLM files do not contain a grid_mapping variable "Lambert_Conformal".

The climate models apply simpleton linear math for almost every physics/chemistry principle...as they did here, using a flat earth, where the sun angle is at a constant 90 degree elevation.
Standard ASCII keyboards have no math symbols other than kindergarten math, so I have to write the words as one would pronounce the equation.
Even if these morons were to incorporate the Lambert function it would still be way wrong.
Apparently they have not figured out yet what the Integral of Cosine (a) for a 1--->90 degrees. And that would still be wrong because so far that would correct only for the decrease in impacting sun radiation north and south of the equator...but still have the sun at a 90 degree elevation from coast to coast,...instead of where the sun really is in the horizon in relation to longitude at any given time.
And on top of that the 3.rd error is that so far this did not take the seasonal 23 degree tilt into account. Climatologists live either in European or North American rizzy cities and perhaps that`s why it never occurred to them just how much this angle changes every day the further north You go.
It`s common knowledge that the arctic is pitch black night 24/7 during the winter time, but "climatoligst" computer models have the sun shine there every day of the year at an elevation angle like 12 noon mid summer on the equator...
simply because they did not know how to write an integral function for a stereo angle and a 23 degree precessional motion for one earth orbit...

And demanding that these models correct for the fact that during the winter months a huge area in the northern hemisphere is cover by white snow is asking for too much.
You don`t have to be a scientist of any sort to know, that air over such an area does not warm at the same rate as it does over areas with exposed darker ground

Climatologists quote equations from wikipedia, like Beer Lambert`s laws, but they sure as shit don`t incorporate the proper non linear functions and the non linear integral functions thereof in any of their computer models...
With Beer Lambert`s laws they quote t to the public but then also use the linear absorbance value which has absolutely nothing to do with actual absorption

With "computer models" based on kindergarten math "climatologists" have been making 50 year predictions, Newspapers have been printing these and Al Gore is giving lectures at the U.N.

This just goes to show for what purpose these "computer model" generate a steady stream of garabage:

PRUDENCE and what came after
ENSEMBLES and CORDEX, Scientific highlights of PRUDENCE

An article on "High-resolution climate modelling: Assessment, added value and applications" made it as a news item in Nature, 428, 593.
About the record-breaking heat wave that affected much of Europe in the summer of 2003: The Summer Heat Wave of 2003: A Signal of Climate Change? about how the 2003 summer is hardly consistent with the present probability distribution. It was very different from the heat waves recorded in 1947 and 1976,

A summer heatwave in 2003 on postage stamp sized Europe is used as "proof" that their computer model works even in "high resolution mode".
But try and point out how cold it was in Canada, ...where Europe fits in ~ 10 times with room to spare, then You get chastised for "cherry picking" and a lecture that this was just local weather and has nothing to do with "global climate"


And that`s what EVERYBODY who is checking up on the math these models are using has been saying all along.
This entire "Global warming science" is political science, the goals are policy making and has nothing at all to do with real science

 

[polarbear]

Every time Manitoba Hydro has to dump out the huge Nelson River reservoirs into the Hudson bay Idiots from all over the world book every Hotel room in Churchill to take pictures of "starving polarbears".
Next day the ice is back, the bears are gone and so are the "Global Warming" Pavarazzi.
The Lincoln See and the Behring Strait same thing. A slug of warm Pacific Water runs up North which is not uncommon and then all kinds of "evidence of thinning polar ice" appears all over the News Media. Greenland & Ellesmere Island same thing.
They love to show You pictures of the breaking ice up the Nares Strait, but no one wants to show You pictures of the landscape around Fort Conger with tree stumps everywhere You look.

And the fact that for 200 years ships have been going up the Nares Strait all the way to
Fort Conger is mentioned only in History books, but nowhere in "Global Warming science"

This is a POLITICAL SCIENCE with the aim of Bilderberg Group policy making,
This group has no mandate and yet holds each year closed door meetings
with every Treasury Secretary and President the U.S. had so far + all
heads od States of the entire E.U.
No minutes are taken and the public has to wait what Wikileaks has on
these shady dealings...
What we do know for certain that Agenda 21, this gravy train for U.N.
fat cats and a lot of treasonous politicians was put on the rails in
the Bilderberg Group closed door meetings.
Then Agenda 21, had to be sold to the public at large.
And it`s attempted by stupefying the public at large with "Man made Global Warming"
, so far with little success...

The "S 21" (Stuttgart 21) Project which is plunging Europe`s tax payers into
a bottomless national debt quagmire ...is an Agenda 21 Project
every politicien in Europe openly says so...and will brag in the same breath
that this S-21/U.N/ Agenda 21 is supposed to counteract the
"Global Warming" their childish computer models forecast.

But none of them want to comment on the pictures which show them
EVERY YEAR coming to or going from at a Bilderberg Group meeting or tell you what was discussed there.
And just asking the question immediately makes a ridiculous "conspiracy theorist" out of legitimate journalists, except for the media that spreads the kind garbage which is supposedly "The Truth"

To date this is "Save the world from Global Warming/Agenda 21" scam is
probably thee most massive financial swindel perpetrated on earth.

But the fuel of any sort hyper taxation financing this lucrative Carbon credits exchange Market is already legislated in most countries, this scum bag fraud market is already open for business and presently has a higher trading volume exceeding the NASDAC and the DAX combined.


Bilderberg Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Bilderberg participants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following is a list of prominent persons who have attended one or more conferences organized by the Bilderberg Group. The list is currently organized by category. It is not a complete list and it includes both living and deceased people. Where known, the year(s) they attended are denoted in brackets.

United States

George W. Ball (1954, 1993),[15] Under Secretary of State 1961-1968, Ambassador to U.N. 1968
Sandy Berger (1999),[16] National Security Advisor, 1997–2001
Timothy Geithner(2009),[17] Treasury Secretary
Lee H. Hamilton (1997),[1] former US Congressman
Christian Herter,[18] (1961, 1963, 1964, 1966), 53rd United States Secretary of State
Charles Douglas Jackson (1957, 1958, 1960),[19] Special Assistant to the President
Joseph E. Johnson[20] (1954), President Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Henry Kissinger[21] (1957, 1964, 1966, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1977, 2008),[22] 56th United States Secretary of State
Colin Powell (1997),[1] 65th United States Secretary of State
Lawrence Summers,[17] Director of the National Economic Council
Paul Volcker,[17] Chair of the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board and Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1979–1987
Roger Altman (2009),[17] Deputy Treasury Secretary from 1993–1994, Founder and Chairman of Evercore Partners

[edit] Presidents

Bill Clinton (1991),[23][24] President 1993-2001
Gerald Ford (1964, 1966),[4][25] President 1974-1977 (deceased)

[edit] Senators

John Edwards (2004),[26][27] Senator from North Carolina 1999-2005
Chuck Hagel (1999, 2000),[28] Senator from Nebraska 1997-2009
Sam Nunn (1996, 1997),[1] Senator from Georgia 1972-1997

[edit] Governors

Rick Perry (2007),[29] Governor of Texas 2000-current
Mark Sanford (2008),[30] Governor of South Carolina

[edit] United Kingdom

Rt Hon the Baroness Shirley Williams ( at least 2010), stateswoman and member, House of Lords; Harvard University Professor; Past President, Chatham House; int'l member, Council on Foreign Relations.
Paddy Ashdown (1989),[31] former leader of Liberal Democrats, High Representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina
Ed Balls (2006),[32] former Economic Secretary to the Treasury and advisor to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and was Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families (2007–2010)
Peter Carington, 6th Baron Carrington (Steering Committee member) ,[33] former Foreign Secretary
Kenneth Clarke (1993,[34] 1998,[35] 1999,[36] 2003,[37] 2004,[38] 2006,[39] 2007,[39] 2008,[40][41] Chancellor of the Exchequer 1993-1997, Shadow Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform 2008-2010, Lord Chancellor, Secretary of State for Justice 2010-current
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil (Viscount Cranborne) (1997),[1] Leader of the House of Lords 94-97
Denis Arthur Greenhill, Lord Greenhill of Harrow (deceased) (1974),[42]) former Head of Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Denis Healey (founder and Steering Committee member),[33] former Chancellor of the Exchequer
Peter Mandelson (1999,[43] 2009[44] Business Secretary (2008–2010)
John Monks (1996),[45] former TUC General Secretary
George Osborne (2006,[46] 2007,[46] 2008[47] 2009[48]) Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer (2004–2010), Chancellor of the Exchequer 2010-current
David Owen (1982),[49] former British Foreign Secretary and leader of the Social Democratic Party
Enoch Powell, (deceased) (1968),[50] MP and Ulster Unionist
Malcolm Rifkind (1996),[45] former Foreign Secretary
Eric Roll (1964, 1966, 1967, 1973–1975, 1977–1999) (Bilderberg Steering Committee),[51] Department of Economic Affairs, 1964, later Bilderberg Group Chairman
David Hannay, Baron Hannay of Chiswick (1995),[52] Diplomatic posts at European Union and United Nations.
John Smith (1989) (deceased),[53] Labour Party leader

[edit] Prime Ministers

Tony Blair (1993),[23][34] Prime Minister 1997-2007
Gordon Brown (1991),[24] Prime Minister 2007- 2010
Edward Heath,[4] Prime Minister 1970-1974
Alec Douglas-Home (1977–1980),[54] Chairman of the Bilderberg Group, Prime Minister 1963-1964
Margaret Thatcher (1975),[55] Prime Minister 1979-1990

[edit] Belgium

Paul-Henri Spaak, Former Prime Minister[56] (1963) (deceased)

[edit] Bulgaria

Kamov, Nikolai, Member of Parliament[57] (1999)

[edit] Netherlands

Ruud Lubbers, Former Prime Minister[58]
Wim Kok, Former Prime Minister[58]
Jan-Peter Balkenende, Former Prime Minister[58]
Maxime Verhagen, Minister[58]

[edit] France

Gaston Defferre (1964),[59] member of National Assembly and mayor of Marseille (at the time) (deceased)
Georges Pompidou, Former Prime Minister of France, Former President of the French Republic[58] (deceased)

[edit] Portugal

Francisco Pinto Balsemão (1981, 1983–1985, 1987–2008),[9] former Prime Minister of Portugal, 1981–1983 and CEO of Impresa media group
Manuel Pinho (2009),[60][61] former Minister of Economy and Innovation
José Sócrates (2004),[60][61][62] current Prime Minister of Portugal
José Pedro Aguiar-Branco,[60][61][62] former Minister of Justice
Santana Lopes (2004),[60][61][62] former Prime Minister of Portugal
José Manuel Durão Barroso (1994, 2003, 2005),[60][63][64] former Prime Minister of Portugal and Minister of Foreign Affairs, and current President of the European Commission
Nuno Morais Sarmento,[61][62] former Minister of Presidency and Minister of Parliament Affairs
António Costa (2008),[61][62] former Minister of Interior and current Mayor of Lisbon
Rui Rio (2008),[61][62] current Mayor of Porto
Manuela Ferreira Leite (2009),[61][65] former Minister of Education and Minister of Finance and Public Administration
Augusto Santos Silva,[61] former Minister of Education, Minister of Culture, Minister of Parliament Affairs, and current Minister of National Defence
Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa (1998),[61] former Minister of Parliament Affairs
António Guterres (1994),[61][63][64] former Prime Minister of Portugal, former President of the Socialist International and current United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Ferro Rodrigues,[63] former Minister of Labour and Social Solidarity and Minister of Public Works, Transport and Communications
Jorge Sampaio,[63][64] former President of Portugal
Luís Mira Amaral (1995),[64][66] former Minister of Labour and Social Solidarity, chairman of Caixa Geral de Depósitos and CEO of Banco Português de Investimento
Vítor Constâncio (1988),[64][66] governor of the Banco de Portugal
Manuel Ferreira de Oliveira,[64] CEO of Galp Energia
Ricardo Salgado,[64][67] CEO of Banco Espírito Santo
Fernando Teixeira dos Santos (2010),[66] currrent Minister of Finance
José Medeiros Ferreira (1977, 1980),[66] former Minister of Foreign Affairs
Joaquim Ferreira do Amaral (1999),[66] former Minister of Public Works, Transport and Communications
António Miguel Morais Barreto (1992),[66] former Minister of Agriculture, Rural Development and Fisheries
João Cravinho,[67] former Minister for Environment, Spatial Planning and Regional Development
Artur Santos Silva,[67] former vice-governor of the Banco de Portugal, chairman of Banco Português de Investimento and current non-executive chairman of Jerónimo Martins
Francisco Luís Murteira Nabo,[67] former chairman of Portugal Telecom, Minister of Public Works, Transport and Communications, and current chairman of Galp Energia and president of the Portuguese Economists Association

[edit] Norway

Siv Jensen (2006) Leader for The Norwegian political party, "Fremskrittspartiet". (Progress Party (Norway))
Jens Stoltenberg (2002), current Prime Minister of Norway.[13]
Kristin Clemet[13] (1999, 2008[68]) Managing Director of the liberal and conservative think tank Civita, Former Minister of Education and Science.
Geir Lundestad (2005)[69] Director of the Norwegian Nobel institute and Secretary to The Nobel Peace Prize Committee.

[edit] Finland

Eero Heinäluoma (2006),[70] former Chairman of the Finnish Social Democratic Party and he was the Minister of Finance between 2005 and 2007
Jyrki Katainen (2007, 2009),[71][72][73] chairman of Finnish National Coalition Party (Kokoomus) and the current Minister of Finance
Sauli Niinistö (1997),[1] former Minister of Finance (Finland), Speaker of Parliament
Matti Vanhanen (2009),[72][73] former Prime Minister, former chairman of Suomen Keskusta

[edit] Iceland

Bjarni Benediktsson[74] (1965, 1967, 1970),[75] Mayor of Reykjavík 1940-47, Foreign Minister 1947-55, editor of The Morning Paper 1956-59, Minister of Justice and Ecclesiastical Affairs 1959-63, Prime Minister 1963-70
Björn Bjarnason[74] (1974, 1977),[76] Assistant editor of The Morning Paper 1984-1991, Minister of Education 1995-2002, Minister of Justice and Ecclesiastical Affairs 2003, 2009
Davíð Oddsson[74] (ca. 1991-1999), Mayor of Reykjavík 1982-1991, Prime Minister 1991-2004, Foreign Minister 2004-2005, Central Bank governor 2005-2009, editor of The Morning Paper as of September 2009
Einar Benediktsson[74] (ca. 1970), ambassador: OECD 1956-60, UK 1982-1986, European Union et al. 1986-1991, NATO 1986-1990, United States et al. 1993-1997, etc.[77]
Geir Haarde,[78] Central Bank economist 1977-1983, member and chairman of the Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee 1991-1998, Minister of Finance 1998-2005, Foreign Minister 2005-2006, Prime Minister 2006-2009
Geir Hallgrímsson[74] (ca. 1974-1977,[76][79] 1980[80]), Mayor of Reykjavík 1959-72, Prime Minister 1974-78, Foreign Minister 1983-1986, Central Bank governor 1986-1990
Hörður Sigurgestsson,[74] former CEO of shipping line Eimskip, former chairman and CFO of Icelandair[81]
Jón Sigurðsson[74] (1993), IMF Board of Directors 1974-1987, Minister of Justice and Ecclesiastical Affairs 1987-88, Industry and Commerce 1988-93, Central Bank governor 1993-94, Nordic Investment Bank governor 1994-2005[82]

[edit] Ireland

Garret FitzGerald, former Taoiseach [83]
Michael McDowell, former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform [9]
Peter Sutherland, Director General of the WTO and former Attorney General of Ireland [1]

[edit] Germany

Angela Merkel (2010), German Chancellor[84]
Guido Westerwelle (2007),[85] Chairman of the Free Democratic Party of Germany and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany.
Helmut Schmidt, West German Chancellor[4]

[edit] Poland

Józef Retinger (1954 to 1960), Founder and secretary of Bilderberg Group[5][86] (deceased)

[edit] Canada

Pierre Elliott Trudeau,[87] Prime Minister of Canada, 1968–1979, 1980–1984
Jean Chrétien (1996),[45] Prime Minister of Canada, 1993–2003
Stephen Harper (2003),[87] Prime Minister of Canada, 2006-current
Mike Harris,[87] Premier of Ontario 1995-2002
Bernard Lord,[87] Premier of New Brunswick 1999-2006
Paul Martin (1996),[45] Prime Minister of Canada, 2003–2006
Frank McKenna (2006, 2010),[88] Deputy Chair of TD Bank Financial Group, Canadian Ambassador to the United States 2005-2006, Premier of New Brunswick 1987-1997
Gordon Campbell (2010), Premier of British Columbia, 2001–Present
Heather Reisman 2000–Present

[edit] Sweden

Carl Bildt (2006),[89] (2008),[89] (2009), Minister of Foreign Affairs 2006-
Anders Borg (2007),[89] Minister of Finance 2006-
Thorbjörn Fälldin (1978),[22] Prime Minister 1976-1978
Maud Olofsson (2008),[89] Minister of Industry 2006-
Fredrik Reinfeldt (2006),[89] Prime Minister 2006-
Mona Sahlin (1996),[89] Head of the Swedish social democratic party 2007-

[edit] Austria

Werner Faymann (2009),[90] Chancellor 2008–present
Andreas Treichl (2009),[91] CEO of Erste Bank

[edit] EU Commissioners

European Union Commissioners who have attended include:

Frederik Bolkestein (1996, 2003),[92] former European Commissioner
Pascal Lamy (2003,[92] 2010[3]), former European Commissioner for Trade, Director-General of the World Trade Organization 2005–present
Peter Mandelson (1999),[43] (2009),[44] former European Commissioner for Trade 2004-2008
Pedro Solbes (2010),[3] former European Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs, former Second Vice President of Spain, former Minister of Economy and Finance

[edit] Military

Colin Gubbins[93] (1955, 1957, 1958, 1963, 1964, 1966), head of the British SOE (deceased)
Lyman Lemnitzer (1963),[56] Supreme Allied Commander NATO 1963-1969 (deceased)
Alexander Haig (1978),[22] NATO Commander 1974-1979 (US Secretary of State 1981-1982) (deceased)
Jaap de Hoop Scheffer[3] (2010), former Secretary General of NATO

[edit] Financial institutions

Ben Bernanke (2008,[30] 2009),[44] Chairman of the Board of Governors of the United States Federal Reserve
Wim Duisenberg, former European Central Bank President[58] (deceased)
Gordon Richardson,[94](1966, 1975) former Governor of the Bank of England (deceased)
William J McDonough (1997),[1] former President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Jean-Claude Trichet (2009,[95] 2010[3]) President of the European Central Bank 2003-current
Paul Volcker (1982, 1983, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1992, 1997),[1] former Chairman of the Federal Reserve
Siegmund Warburg (1977)[94] (deceased)

[edit] Major corporations

Percy Barnevik (1992–1996, 1997,[1] 2001), former CEO of ASEA
Michel Bon,[96] former CEO of France Telecom
Lord Browne of Madingley (1995, 1997,[1] 2004), Chief Executive BP
Bill Gates (2010),[97] Chairman of Microsoft
Eric Schmidt (2008, 2010),[98] CEO and Chairman of Google
Donald E. Graham (2008-2010),[99] CEO and Chairman of The Washington Post Company, Board of Directors for Facebook
Louis V. Gerstner, Jr.,[100] IBM Chairman
H. J. Heinz II (1954),[20] CEO of H. J. Heinz Company (deceased)
André Lévy-Lang, (French)[96] former CEO of Paribas
Jorma Ollila (1997,[1] 2005, 2008), Chairman of Royal Dutch Shell and Nokia Corporation
Paul Rijkens (Dutch) Former Chairman of Unilever[58]
Josef Ackermann (2010), CEO Deutsche Bank[84]
Jürgen E. Schrempp (1994–1996, 1997),[1] 1998, 1999, 2001–2005, 2006, 2007), former CEO of DaimlerChrysler
Hans Stråberg (2006),[89] CEO of Electrolux
Peter Sutherland (1989–1996, 1997,[1] 2005), former Chairman of BP
Martin Taylor[1] (1993–1996,[45] 1997), former CEO, Barclays
Otto Wolff von Amerongen,[1] Chairman Otto Wolff GmbH.
Jacob Wallenberg (2006),[89] Chairman of Investor AB

 

[polarbear]

The ENSEMBLES project RT3

ENSEMBLES and CORDEX, Scientific highlights of PRUDENCE
An article on "High-resolution climate modelling: Assessment, added value and applications" made it as a news item in Nature, 428, 593.
About the record-breaking heat wave that affected much of Europe in the summer of 2003: The Summer Heat Wave of 2003: A Signal of Climate Change? about how the 2003 summer is hardly consistent with the present probability distribution. It was very different from the heat waves recorded in 1947 and 1976,

Look at the "measuring sticks" used by "GLOBAL warming"...:

Manitoba's total area is 676000 square kilometers,
Saskatechewan 588276 square kilometers
NWT 1541844 square kilometers,
Nunavut about 1994000 square kilometers

I`m not even including the Yukon here...

Germany, where this news breaking "Global Heat wave, proving" this ridiculous Computer forecast was has an area of 356910 square kilometers..
It fits into what is just a small portion of Canada 14 times with room to spare...

Yet when I post a video, what our current weather is, "OldRocks" etc who have a strange concept of significance this would be dismissed as "just local weather"...with "no global significance"...and a mid summer heat wave in postage stamp sized Europe "proves Global Warming"......???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

By the way this is what`s going on in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, etc right now (april 15th @ ~17:00 local time.:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQNBL-ExAyg]YouTube - Global Warming in Canada[/ame]


And just a couple of weeks ago ....:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5mSfyPVQuk]YouTube - Canada Wetterbericht.wmv[/ame]

And an asshole like "OldRocks" will find on one of his Climate sex change dot.Orgasm web pages that Canada is in heat like a ***** dog in in a suburban Seattle back alley or wherever that little world he lives in is..

 

[jesereL]

I must start learning how to swim.

 

[Chris]

 

[polarbear]

This must be what..? almost a dozen times that You post this image here over and over again without a single comment...
As if You are puzzled by it and this is some sort of outcry for an explanation You need...
Okay, I`ll help You out then...but don`t make a habit of it, because I`m pretty busy and can`t do this all the time.
So for the future, get Yourself the "TinEye" plug in for Your browser, and install it.
Then when You see an image like the one which seems to trouble You, all You have to do is right click the pretty little picture and You get an almost up to date list of every web site which is using this image.
188 results - TinEye
after that it`s of course entirely up to You if You want to remain ignorant an read only the kind of web pages "Old Rocks" reads or if You want to read web pages of people that have a direct data down link and the ability to graph this data...
I do it all the time and that`s why I don`t really have the time to give You free math & computer tutoring every day...unless you start paying me

This graph You show is a gross distortion of the original JAXA data set (JAXA= Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency)

And all You have to do is download the same Data Your Global Warming Hysterical Alarmsiren Web Sites use , open an XL spreadsheet and plet XL plot the graph...it`s that simple!
Of Course when You graph data there are all kinds of ways to cheat...You know, like the Hockey Stick...??
Anyway here is the same JAXA date set , it exists NOT JUST for the Arctic, we also have one for the Antarctic...which Your regular diet web sites don`t want to show you for easily understandable reasons...:
Well here are both North & South JAXA Data super imposed..:

Your GW web sites are still in disarray how to explain this, and currently they are leaning towards the Ozon hole guilt trip..but the problem is, that the Ozone Hole doesn’t form until August and is gone by December.
So You can see, they are between an "Old Rock" and a hard place here ...!!

The other strategy GW "science" is also floating is...: “we expected Antarctica to warm more slowly because of the mass of the southern oceans.”

The Problem with this "explanation" is that “slower warming” not the same as “cooling.”

Plots of the JAXA Data made by a lot of people that know what they are doing

JAXA Melt Season – Shortest On Record | Real Science

JAXA Melt Season – Shortest On Record
Posted on September 13, 2010 by stevengoddard

The short melt season was due to a some very cold weather in March at lower latitudes, which kept driving extent upwards until the end of the month. The maximum was reached 18 days later than the mean, and the minimum was reached 5 days earlier than the mean.

So why don`t You ask Your friends who`s graph You keep posting why they stopped Your Tibetan Prayer mill graph on June in each line on this stupid graph You keep posting...is that when the GW Year ends..? I don`t know about You, but all the people I know, the year ain`t over till the fat lady sings December 31 rst

And You never noticed that...or suspected anything?

and You never noticed they left off everything else for every year which came down from JAXA from June to December 31 in EVERY YEAR on THEIR GRAPH?????

Arctic Continues Record Ice Growth | Real Science

Another massive gain yesterday. CT area showed an increase of 108842 km^2. Since the minimum, we’ve gained 624214 km^2, now the highest gain from the minimum in the last 10 years!

There are 2 kinds of people in this business, one kind understands binary and Computers and all the others are at the mercy of what they are being told by those who do know how to use a computer other than just scavenging the Internet for web sites that augment You Fantasy World..

Well anyway if You keep it up as You have so far posting this ******* distorted graph here over and over gain, then I will just keep on dumping the complete JAXA data set here from which Your "Scientists" have cherry picked their Data to scare the shit out of brainless people...:




http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/plot.csv

I won`t do it this time...it`s a massive set of numbers, check out the link above

Let`s just leave this as a lesson , that you should be more careful what you quote to one of the oldest computer whores on the block here ...

So why don`t You first inform yourself what the IPCC has to say about this shit you keep quoting here..

IPCC Latest Arctic Ice Extent Update Corrections

The Fifth Assessment Report due , will provide an important update of knowledge related to climate change regarding the arcic ice sheet
Meanwhile, two Special Reports are due in 2011 - Advance Climate Change Adaptation regarding Computer Modelling

You are way out of Your depth...




and then it`s important you know how to swim...:

I must start learning how to swim.

She want`s somebody teaching her the "breast stroke"

I sure as shit can`t my wife would kill me

So I read the newspapers instead to get my mind of these "wicked thoughts";

;

Maybe You should change Your " top secret Intel sources" and read something else because what You dug up so far does not go well with the image
.............you are trying to project here..:;

you come across is a lot more like this...:;

Try wrap Your head around this..:

From The New York Times, 1969

From the 9th century to the 13th century almost no ice was reported there. This was the period- of Norse colonization of’ Iceland and Greenland. Then, conditions worsened and the Norse colonies declined. After the Little Ice Age of 1650 to 1840 the ice began to vanish near Iceland and had almost disappeared when the trend re versed, disastrously crippling Icelandic fisheries last year.

From The New York Times, 2000

The thick ice that has for ages covered the Arctic Ocean at the pole has turned to water, recent visitors there reported yesterday. At least for the time being, an ice-free patch of ocean about a mile wide has opened at the very top of the world, something that has presumably never before been seen by humans and is more evidence that global warming may be real and already affecting climate. The last time scientists can be certain the pole was awash in water was more than 50 million years ago.

Is it possible that the IPCC is trying to rewrite the history books?

 

[Chris]

Sea ice cover in the Arctic appears to have reached its maximum extent for the year, and according to scientists with the National Snow and Ice Data Center, that extent ties 2006 for the lowest on record.

Watching a time-lapse movie of sea ice as it waxes and wanes over the course of a year is a little like watching a lung breathe in and breathe out. Over the fall and winter months, it steadily expands until it achieves its greatest extent - generally somewhere in March - and then it retreats until it reaches its lowest area, generally in September.

Arctic Ice Is Younger, Thinner, and Disappearing

As Arctic temperatures warm, particularly in summer, the minimum sea ice extent has decreased precipitously. It is presently declining by 11.5 percent per decade relative to the 1979-2000 average. That decline has in turn affected sea ice recovery in the winter, as the ice that reforms is now younger and thinner, and thus less likely to persist. However, because the Arctic remains an extremely cold environment in the winter months, winter sea ice decline is less than in summer: about 3 to 4 percent per decade since 1979, when satellite measurements began.

2011 Arctic Sea Ice Maximum Joint Lowest On Record : Discovery News

 

[skookerasbil]

Polar.......Im laughing my balls off...........and these k00ks. Soooooooooooooo fcukking boring. Thats why they took to the sciences. When you have the social abilites of a handball, thats what you do. Asshole social invalids like this k00k hris learned in school at an early age that "creativity" is spelled "cetivty", thus, you spend your life in front of the PC 14 hours/day.

And by the way..........ever notice the k00ks never want to talk about the Antarctic........like it doesnt exist on earth!!!


Not winning..............

 

[wirebender]

Your GW web sites are still in disarray how to explain this, and currently they are leaning towards the Ozon hole guilt trip..but the problem is, that the Ozone Hole doesn’t form until August and is gone by December.

I tried to get some of the wackos to talk about the "ozone hole". If they weren't afraid to look at the truth, maybe they would know why the hole over the antarctic doesn't form till august and is gone by december. It certainly has nothing to do with anything man is doing.

 

[konradv]

Your GW web sites are still in disarray how to explain this, and currently they are leaning towards the Ozon hole guilt trip..but the problem is, that the Ozone Hole doesn’t form until August and is gone by December.

I tried to get some of the wackos to talk about the "ozone hole". If they weren't afraid to look at the truth, maybe they would know why the hole over the antarctic doesn't form till august and is gone by december. It certainly has nothing to do with anything man is doing.

But the size of it may. You can't dispute the effect of chlorine on ozone. That's straight chemistry, whether in a test tube or in the atmosphere. It's intellectual dishonesty to leave out half the story.

 

[westwall]

Your GW web sites are still in disarray how to explain this, and currently they are leaning towards the Ozon hole guilt trip..but the problem is, that the Ozone Hole doesn’t form until August and is gone by December.

I tried to get some of the wackos to talk about the "ozone hole". If they weren't afraid to look at the truth, maybe they would know why the hole over the antarctic doesn't form till august and is gone by december. It certainly has nothing to do with anything man is doing.

But the size of it may. You can't dispute the effect of chlorine on ozone. That's straight chemistry, whether in a test tube or in the atmosphere. It's intellectual dishonesty to leave out half the story.

Maybe, the problem with that is the ozone hole disappears. The chlorine molecules are still up there and magically the hole closes? An honest person would figure out there is a problem with the theory after that had happened a few times or so....but I think we know who's intellectually honest when it comes to environmental science. And it's sure not you and your ilk!

 

[wirebender]

But the size of it may. You can't dispute the effect of chlorine on ozone. That's straight chemistry, whether in a test tube or in the atmosphere. It's intellectual dishonesty to leave out half the story.

I am telling you that man has nothing to do with the ozone "hole". If you care to discuss the topic, I will be happy to lead you to the same unavoidable conclusion. If you are in posession of the facts, the hoax simply falls away.

Once more I ask...What do you believe the ozone layer to be, how do you believe it got there, and what do you believe it does. Answer the questions or admit your intellectual cowardice.

Care to learn the truth?

 

[konradv]

But the size of it may. You can't dispute the effect of chlorine on ozone. That's straight chemistry, whether in a test tube or in the atmosphere. It's intellectual dishonesty to leave out half the story.

I am telling you that man has nothing to do with the ozone "hole". If you care to discuss the topic, I will be happy to lead you to the same unavoidable conclusion. If you are in posession of the facts, the hoax simply falls away.

Once more I ask...What do you believe the ozone layer to be, how do you believe it got there, and what do you believe it does. Answer the questions or admit your intellectual cowardice.

Care to learn the truth?

How can we learn the truth, if you're only willing to tell half the story? Yes, the hole existed before man. Yes, it gets larger and smaller naturally. Neither of those two facts perclude the man having an effect on its size by the emission of chemicals KNOWN to breakdown ozone. Please, address THIS issue before going any further, including your contention that man has "nothing" to do with the size of the hole. Considering you're bashing others for having few facts to back them up, you've got a lot of nerve expecting us to believe something for which you have NO facts!!! Once again, intellectual dishonesty.