Apartheid

[aris2chat]

Please the next time the word apartheid is brought up regarding Israel, let them read what is happening in South Africa still; how black and white equality, politically, economically or socially exists.
The people of SA were all one nation. The palestinians and Israelis are not. The palestinians should have developed their own government, social services and economy by now. They could have negotiated, not make demands, a peace agreement which would have led to statehood.
Jordan, egypt, lebanon and syria do not have "equal" right with Israel because they are not all part of the same nation or people. As americans there are differing laws and right between states so we are not all equal. Those in the lower 48 certainly don't have the same rights as Alaskans. People in differing places don't pay the same taxes or get the same services.
Palestinians have to deal with what rights their state or authority gives them, not by what rights Israel gives to Israelis.

Before tossing around the word apartheid, maybe it would better serve the palestinians to truly understand the term as it was applied to SA instead, and how little things have changed since apartheid "ended".

Article: South Africa: Twenty Years of Apartheid by Another Name | OpEdNews

 

[Hossfly]

Please the next time the word apartheid is brought up regarding Israel, let them read what is happening in South Africa still; how black and white equality, politically, economically or socially exists.
The people of SA were all one nation. The palestinians and Israelis are not. The palestinians should have developed their own government, social services and economy by now. They could have negotiated, not make demands, a peace agreement which would have led to statehood.
Jordan, egypt, lebanon and syria do not have "equal" right with Israel because they are not all part of the same nation or people. As americans there are differing laws and right between states so we are not all equal. Those in the lower 48 certainly don't have the same rights as Alaskans. People in differing places don't pay the same taxes or get the same services.
Palestinians have to deal with what rights their state or authority gives them, not by what rights Israel gives to Israelis.

Before tossing around the word apartheid, maybe it would better serve the palestinians to truly understand the term as it was applied to SA instead, and how little things have changed since apartheid "ended".

Article: South Africa: Twenty Years of Apartheid by Another Name | OpEdNews

Plus SA has one of the highest murder rates in the world. A very dangerous country.

 

[toastman]

Most people call Israel an apartheid state because they simply follow what all the other Arab propagandists say. I don't even think most of them mnow what it means!

 

[Hossfly]

Most people call Israel an apartheid state because they simply follow what all the other Arab propagandists say. I don't even think most of them mnow what it means!

I have suggested for people to read Michener's "The Covenant", but they have their head in the sand and don't want to know the truth.

 

[Crystalclear]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

 

[montelatici]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

 

[Sally]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

It looks like the Iranian gang is back once again with their Apartheid shtick. Meranwhile, I wish these guys would move to Saudi Arabia and see how fairly they are treated. The Iranian gang would be Shia, and I don't think Sunni Saudi Arabia would look so kindly on them.

Meanwhile, Bishop Tutu should have spoken to this woman.

Israel is NOT apartheid state, says South African leader's daughter - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[Hossfly]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

How many years did Tutu live in Israel?

 

[aris2chat]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

I've spend far more time seeing how palestinians treat other palestinians and how arab treat palestinians in their country. That is by far worse than how palestinians have been treated by Israelis.
Tutu spend a few hours and take a tour and bases his judgement on that. He has not spend days or weeks. He has not lived with them, talked for hours with a wide cross section of the people from politicians to the children at play. He was not there when they babies were birth or when they were massacred in the camp war. He was not there when they were the ones perpetrating massacres. He was not there when palestinians trying to escape the siege were shot in the back by their own soldiers. He was not there when they waged war on their hosts, perpetrated political assassination or kidnapped and tortured children.
He does not know the palestinians in the PA or the rest of the middle east. I spent more time with my cousin when she was researching the abuse of women in SA than Tutu has spend researching the palestinians. He is no authority.
Maybe he should concern himself more with Zuma's government and his own people than with the palestinians and Israel.

 

[montelatici]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

I've spend far more time seeing how palestinians treat other palestinians and how arab treat palestinians in their country. That is by far worse than how palestinians have been treated by Israelis.
Tutu spend a few hours and take a tour and bases his judgement on that. He has not spend days or weeks. He has not lived with them, talked for hours with a wide cross section of the people from politicians to the children at play. He was not there when they babies were birth or when they were massacred in the camp war. He was not there when they were the ones perpetrating massacres. He was not there when palestinians trying to escape the siege were shot in the back by their own soldiers. He was not there when they waged war on their hosts, perpetrated political assassination or kidnapped and tortured children.
He does not know the palestinians in the PA or the rest of the middle east. I spent more time with my cousin when she was researching the abuse of women in SA than Tutu has spend researching the palestinians. He is no authority.
Maybe he should concern himself more with Zuma's government and his own people than with the palestinians and Israel.

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

 

[jillian]

Most people call Israel an apartheid state because they simply follow what all the other Arab propagandists say. I don't even think most of them mnow what it means!

most people don't call israel an apartheid state... only the terrorist supporters.

 

[MHunterB]

Monte - why should anyone accept your unsupported opinions as facts? Because you, the new kid on the forum, are saying so?

 

[Hossfly]

Yeah right, I guess this guy knows nothing about Apartheid

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

"In South Africa, we could not have achieved our democracy without the help of people around the world, who through the use of non-violent means, such as boycotts and divestment, encouraged their governments and other corporate actors to reverse decades-long support for the apartheid regime," he told News24.

"The same issues of inequality and injustice today motivate the divestment movement trying to end Israel's decades-long occupation of Palestinian territory and the unfair and prejudicial treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government ruling over them."

"'Those who turn a blind eye to injustice actually perpetuate injustice. If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,"

Bishop Desmond Tutu

Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians | JPost | Israel News

I've spend far more time seeing how palestinians treat other palestinians and how arab treat palestinians in their country. That is by far worse than how palestinians have been treated by Israelis.
Tutu spend a few hours and take a tour and bases his judgement on that. He has not spend days or weeks. He has not lived with them, talked for hours with a wide cross section of the people from politicians to the children at play. He was not there when they babies were birth or when they were massacred in the camp war. He was not there when they were the ones perpetrating massacres. He was not there when palestinians trying to escape the siege were shot in the back by their own soldiers. He was not there when they waged war on their hosts, perpetrated political assassination or kidnapped and tortured children.
He does not know the palestinians in the PA or the rest of the middle east. I spent more time with my cousin when she was researching the abuse of women in SA than Tutu has spend researching the palestinians. He is no authority.
Maybe he should concern himself more with Zuma's government and his own people than with the palestinians and Israel.

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

 

[montelatici]

I've spend far more time seeing how palestinians treat other palestinians and how arab treat palestinians in their country. That is by far worse than how palestinians have been treated by Israelis.
Tutu spend a few hours and take a tour and bases his judgement on that. He has not spend days or weeks. He has not lived with them, talked for hours with a wide cross section of the people from politicians to the children at play. He was not there when they babies were birth or when they were massacred in the camp war. He was not there when they were the ones perpetrating massacres. He was not there when palestinians trying to escape the siege were shot in the back by their own soldiers. He was not there when they waged war on their hosts, perpetrated political assassination or kidnapped and tortured children.
He does not know the palestinians in the PA or the rest of the middle east. I spent more time with my cousin when she was researching the abuse of women in SA than Tutu has spend researching the palestinians. He is no authority.
Maybe he should concern himself more with Zuma's government and his own people than with the palestinians and Israel.

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

Aris has his/her schtick and you buy it. I, and the majority of the people in the world know that Israel practices Apartheid. Just Americans have a different opinion.

 

[Hossfly]

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

Aris has his/her schtick and you buy it. I, and the majority of the people in the world know that Israel practices Apartheid. Just Americans have a different opinion.

Hossfeathers.

 

[aris2chat]

I've spend far more time seeing how palestinians treat other palestinians and how arab treat palestinians in their country. That is by far worse than how palestinians have been treated by Israelis.
Tutu spend a few hours and take a tour and bases his judgement on that. He has not spend days or weeks. He has not lived with them, talked for hours with a wide cross section of the people from politicians to the children at play. He was not there when they babies were birth or when they were massacred in the camp war. He was not there when they were the ones perpetrating massacres. He was not there when palestinians trying to escape the siege were shot in the back by their own soldiers. He was not there when they waged war on their hosts, perpetrated political assassination or kidnapped and tortured children.
He does not know the palestinians in the PA or the rest of the middle east. I spent more time with my cousin when she was researching the abuse of women in SA than Tutu has spend researching the palestinians. He is no authority.
Maybe he should concern himself more with Zuma's government and his own people than with the palestinians and Israel.

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

Could thing be better for the palestinians? Of course, but their situation is not all on Israel. It is of their own making as well. If they had given up their arms and renounced violence? If they had spend more time trying to cooperate instead of hardline demands? If they had spend the time and money to teach and prepare the people for what a realistic peace and economic future would look like for for sides? Palestinians could have been highly prosperous by now, not in debt or begging for fuel to run their electrical generators and water pumps. Gaza was on the verge of being a tourist center and year round vacation spot for not just Israelis but the middle east and europe. There was a deep sea port scheduled, there was an airport, there were large hotels and casinos being built, palestinians were trained to fill all levels of employment needs, archaeology and plans for historical tourism from pre-caananite through ottoman had been started, agriculture, both external and greenhouse had been developed. All the steps had been taken to help the palestinians, till they decided on the course of violence instead.
The UN and palestinians are not responsible for all the hospitals and schools in gaza. Under the Egyptians the schools that existed were hotbeds of hate and propaganda. Painting on the walls and by the students were the most vial and violent imagery against Israelis. Palestinians not in UN camps were on the verge of starvation and suffering from typhoid to parasites. Gaza was a hell hole when Egypt withdrew.
Complain about how palestinians are treated by syrians and in camps throughout the region. Be concerned about how arabs still oppress palestinians. Compare that to how much better off palestinians in the WB and gaza are. Examine how many millionaires there are among the palestinians in the WB and gaza compared to palestinians elsewhere. Compare the education standards, the jobs provided, the amount spent on health care both from just supplies provided as well as treatment of palestinians in Israeli hospitals.

When you really understand what it is like for palestinians elsewhere, even in UN camps and how it has been in the PA you would not be so critical of Israel.
Life could be better for everyone be they palestinians, americans, british or Israeli, but not every hardship is Israels fault or can be prevented by anyone other than the palestinians themselves.

 

[aris2chat]

Maybe you should just shut up and quit with the schtick. You may fool these idiots that want to be fooled, but you don't fool me.

Desmond Tutu knows Apartheid when he sees it, full stop.

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

Aris has his/her schtick and you buy it. I, and the majority of the people in the world know that Israel practices Apartheid. Just Americans have a different opinion.

Some people over the decades have taken the time to know me and a bit about my family and past. Others simply go by the evidence and opinion I have presented across a number for forums, papers and presentations.
You are always free to block or simply ignore me, or find a board where you are more in sink with the rhetoric spouted. You do not speak for most American's fortunately. We have quite a few that have served the US both in the military and civil service. Proud Americans with their own opinions.

Maybe some even question your schtick (שטי&#1511. A very yiddish word form one who so dislikes the Israelis.

 

[Sally]

How many years did you live in Israel? Aris knows whats going on in Israel. If they practiced apartheid Aris would be the first one to denounce it. Why don't you stop with the Arab propaganda?

Aris has his/her schtick and you buy it. I, and the majority of the people in the world know that Israel practices Apartheid. Just Americans have a different opinion.

Maybe some even question your schtick (שטי&#1511. A very yiddish word form one who so dislikes the Israelis.

Aris, the problem is that the Iranian gang doesn't like to hear anything said that is against their point of view. How do we even know that they are citizens of this country? As for Apartheid, it seems to be such a favorite subject of theirs while their brethren are busy murdering innocent people in many different areas of the world. As far as people outside of America, the majority of the world probably doesn't even think about Israel. They are too busy earning a living for their families and also worrying about what is going on in their own country. Can you just picture two Mexicans in Ensenda meeting over coffee each morning and discussing what is happening in Israel -- or even two guys from any of the Central and South American countries? How about two guys on a tea break in a Chinese factory? You, yourself, know how many Muslims talk up against the Jews and Israel. There are Muslims who have no problem with the Jews and Israel, but you can tell the Iranian gang has a big problem. I think that the majority of posters and readers appreciate what you have to offer this forum with your own experience in the Middle East and your constantly reading publications from all over the world, while the Iranian gang and those with the same mind set just bring up the same subjects ad nauseam. Let's call them by another Yiddish word -- schmucks.

 

[aris2chat]

Aris has his/her schtick and you buy it. I, and the majority of the people in the world know that Israel practices Apartheid. Just Americans have a different opinion.

Maybe some even question your schtick (שטי&#1511. A very yiddish word form one who so dislikes the Israelis.

Aris, the problem is that the Iranian gang doesn't like to hear anything said that is against their point of view. How do we even know that they are citizens of this country? As for Apartheid, it seems to be such a favorite subject of theirs while their brethren are busy murdering innocent people in many different areas of the world. As far as people outside of America, the majority of the world probably doesn't even think about Israel. They are too busy earning a living for their families and also worrying about what is going on in their own country. Can you just picture two Mexicans in Ensenda meeting over coffee each morning and discussing what is happening in Israel -- or even two guys from any of the Central and South American countries? How about two guys on a tea break in a Chinese factory? You, yourself, know how many Muslims talk up against the Jews and Israel. There are Muslims who have no problem with the Jews and Israel, but you can tell the Iranian gang has a big problem. I think that the majority of posters and readers appreciate what you have to offer this forum with your own experience in the Middle East and your constantly reading publications from all over the world, while the Iranian gang and those with the same mind set just bring up the same subjects ad nauseam. Let's call them by another Yiddish word -- schmucks.

I remember passover meals with muslims, christians and the local rabbi, when there was one. Too many years ago. No store bought jewish food, all hand made. Now there are but a handful of jews, though there was an effort to restore the damaged synagogue.


This year, a piece of lamb, some flat bread, olives, hummus, herbs from my garden and maybe a stuffed apple if I get ambitious. I'm sure Heston will be on one of the channels.

 

[Phoenall]

People who use Apartheid in this context really don't know what they're talking about.

People who use the term apartheid against Israel are just inciting religious and racial hatred. There is no evidence that Israel is an apartheid state and has apartheid policies. Strangely enough Palestine does have apartheid policies in place that should result in them facing UN sanctions