Apartheid Israel

[docmauser1]

And you know for a fact that the people who are todays Palestinians are not decended from the original Jews of Biblical times, who adopted Arabic culture and Islam during the Arabic reign over the region?

Of course! As Winnie, who, of course, knew his arabs inside out, put it: "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."

 

[Marc39]

"...What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible.

• It is the Palestine® - Israeli conflict, the origin of which is the desire of the largely immigrant bunch of the neighbourhood arabs, who were drawn in by the joovish development projects, to grab what wasn't theirs. To cover such an unpleasant fact the palestinian® mythology was compiled, at the center of which lies a fairy-tale about the "indigenous palestinian people"®.
• Quoting "ifamericansknew" and other palestinian® pornsites is obscene and bad manners too.

“Professor Erich Fromm, a noted Jewish writer and thinker, [stated]...’In general international law, the principle holds true that no citizen loses his property or his rights of citizenship; and the citizenship right is de facto a right to which the Arabs in Israel have much more legitimacy than the Jews.

"Just because the Arabs fled?

"Since when is that punishable by confiscation of property, and by being barred from returning to the land on which a people’s forefathers have lived for generations?

"Thus, the claim of the Jews to the land of Israel cannot be a realistic claim.

"If all nations would suddenly claim territory in which their forefathers had lived two thousand years ago, this world would be a madhouse...

"I believe that, politically speaking, there is only one solution for Israel, namely, the unilateral acknowledgment of the obligation of the State towards the Arabs — not to use it as a bargaining point, but to acknowledge the complete moral obligation of the Israeli State to its former inhabitants of Palestine’..."

Are you also smarter than Erich Fromm?

Bogus website.

"Palestine" was under Ottoman Turkish, not Arab, sovereignty for 400 years. Arabs leased land from the Sultanate.

Thus, Arabs are merely renters and renters have no property rights.

The Ottomans relinquished sovereignty over the Middle East after collapse of the Empire in WW I and the San Remo Resolution signed by the Allies transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews.

Yes, I'm smarter.

 

[georgephillip]

Renters have Human Rights.

Renters have voting rights.

Whether Arabs leased or owned their land is irrelevant since between the 7th and 20th Centuries CE Arabs were an overwhelming majority of the land that became Mandate Palestine.

The year that the Jewish State of Israel came into existence saw 1,220,000 Arab Muslims and Christians living in Mandate Palestine alongside 650,000 Jews.

One person, one vote?

Smart enough to do that math?

Too racist to bother?

 

[Marc39]

Renters have Human Rights.

Renters have voting rights.

Whether Arabs leased or owned their land is irrelevant since between the 7th and 20th Centuries CE Arabs were an overwhelming majority of the land that became Mandate Palestine.

The year that the Jewish State of Israel came into existence saw 1,220,000 Arab Muslims and Christians living in Mandate Palestine alongside 650,000 Jews.

Untrue. No reliable census figures were recorded by the Ottomans or the British.

Your figures are bogus.

Jews are the most wonderful people in the world and Arabs the most wretched. The ratio of 1 Jewish state to 30 Arab states should be reversed.

Winston Churchill...

We owe to the Jews a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all wisdom and learning put together.

Some people like Jews and some do not, but no thoughtful `person' can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world

The coming into being of a Jewish state in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years" "This is an event in world history

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Alexis de Toqueville...

Istudied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

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[georgephillip]

More wonderful Jews...

“There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country.

"They didn’t exist.'

- Golda Meir statement to the Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"The Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot interviewing Israeli foreign Minister Shimon Peres (Oct. 5, 2001):

"Y.A.: 'I was wondering, would [the Palestinian] dreams about Jaffa and Haifa suddenly disappear?'

"Peres: 'On this issue I recommend to kill and annihilate.'

Quick!
Make up some hasbara statistics showing a Jew majority in 1948
Palestine Mandate.

Palestinian Refugees

 

[Marc39]

More wonderful Jews...

“There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country.

"They didn’t exist.'

- Golda Meir statement to the Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"The Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot interviewing Israeli foreign Minister Shimon Peres (Oct. 5, 2001):

"Y.A.: 'I was wondering, would [the Palestinian] dreams about Jaffa and Haifa suddenly disappear?'

"Peres: 'On this issue I recommend to kill and annihilate.'

Quick!
Make up some hasbara statistics showing a Jew majority in 1948
Palestine Mandate.

Palestinian Refugees

PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen was an Arab

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Journalist Joe Farah is an Arab-American...

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

Myths of the Middle East


Azmi Bishara is an Arab...

“Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

"The estimated population of Palestine in 1893, under the Ottoman Empire, was 469,000 (98%) Arabs, composed of a mixture of Muslims and Christians, and 10,000 (2%) Jews.

"In 1897, the population of Arabs was 563,000 and of Jews was 21,500, slightly shifting the population proportions to 96% and 4% respectively.

"In 1912, the estimated population of Palestine was 525,000 (93%) Arabs and 40,000 (6%) Jews.

"By 1920, the population of Arabs was 542,000 (90%) and of Jews was 61,000 (10%).3

"Thus, in 23 years, only a small number of European Jews had chosen to come live in Palestine.

"Things changed dramatically in the 1920s. Following World War I, the victorious British took Palestine over from the Ottomans and at the urging of British Zionists, proceeded to fulfill their 100-year-old program to bring Jews to create a colony for British interests.

"In the 16 years after 1920, Jewish immigrants flooded into Palestine, and by 1936, 385,400 Jews (27.8% of the population) were living among 983,200 Arabs.4

"Thus, in approximately one generation (40 years), the population of Jews in Palestine increased from 2% to 28% due to the synergy of the Zionist program and anti-Jewish actions in Europe."Palestinian Refugees Right to Return and Repatriation

 

[Marc39]

"The estimated population of Palestine in 1893, under the Ottoman Empire, was 469,000 (98%) Arabs, composed of a mixture of Muslims and Christians, and 10,000 (2%) Jews.

Problem is, there was no Palestine. The correct geographic name of the land was Judea, as in Jewish.

Arabs did not recognize Palestine.

Thus, you made it all up.

Palestine was invented by the Romans when they renamed Judea "Palaestina" after the Philistines," who were Greek, not Arab.

Maybe, the Pallies can change their bogus story to really being Greek and claim Greece as their homeland.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

The word Palestine comes from "Philistine" and originally denoted the coastal region north and south of Gaza [not the land now known as Israel] which was occupied and settled by the Philistine invaders from across the sea [who were Aegean, not Arab or Jewish

Palestine was sometimes extended to include territories further east but was not usually applied to Judaea [Israel, today] , which in Roman times was still officially and commonly known by that name.

It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.

After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17...Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district [of Syria and Lebanon], and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense. In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut. The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

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[P F Tinmore]

"The estimated population of Palestine in 1893, under the Ottoman Empire, was 469,000 (98%) Arabs, composed of a mixture of Muslims and Christians, and 10,000 (2%) Jews.

Problem is, there was no Palestine. The correct geographic name of the land was Judea, as in Jewish.

Arabs did not recognize Palestine.

Thus, you made it all up.

Palestine was invented by the Romans when they renamed Judea "Palaestina" after the Philistines," who were Greek, not Arab.

Maybe, the Pallies can change their bogus story to really being Greek and claim Greece as their homeland.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

The word Palestine comes from "Philistine" and originally denoted the coastal region north and south of Gaza [not the land now known as Israel] which was occupied and settled by the Philistine invaders from across the sea [who were Aegean, not Arab or Jewish

After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17...Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district [of Syria and Lebanon], and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense. In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut. The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288442131&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

And besides that, what difference does it make?

 

[Marc39]

"The estimated population of Palestine in 1893, under the Ottoman Empire, was 469,000 (98%) Arabs, composed of a mixture of Muslims and Christians, and 10,000 (2%) Jews.

Problem is, there was no Palestine. The correct geographic name of the land was Judea, as in Jewish.

Arabs did not recognize Palestine.

Thus, you made it all up.

Palestine was invented by the Romans when they renamed Judea "Palaestina" after the Philistines," who were Greek, not Arab.

Maybe, the Pallies can change their bogus story to really being Greek and claim Greece as their homeland.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288442131&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

And besides that, what difference does it make?

 

[georgephillip]

Problem is...

"The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the British Mandate of Palestine, was a legal commission for the administration of Palestine, the draft of which was formally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922 and which came into effect on 26 September 1923.[1]

"The document was based on the principles contained in Article 22 of the draft Covenant of the League of Nations and the San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920 by the principal Allied and associated powers after the First World War.[1] The mandate formalised British rule in the Southern part of Ottoman Syria from 1923–1948.

"With the League of Nations' consent on 16 September 1922, the UK divided the Mandate territory into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan,..."

Get it yet, "Princeton"?

The British Mandate for Palestine aka the Palestine Mandate aka the British Mandate of Palestine was a legal commission for the administration of Palestine.

Thus you still full of wonderful shit AND more stupid than dirt.

British Mandate for Palestine - Wiki

 

[Marc39]

Problem is...

"The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate

Georgie, don't bullshit because I formally studied the subject matter.

You, OTOH, know less than zero about the subject matter. This is why I rip you so many new assholes.

The British Mandate and Palestine Mandate are two entirely separate entities.

The Palestine Mandate is the document ratified by the League of Nations establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland.

The British Mandate was the British government's implementation of the Palestine Mandate in establishing the legal and political framework for the Jewish homeland.

The British Mandate was terminated and resp. for "Palestine" transferred to the UN.

The Palestine Mandate has not been terminated, protected by the UN Charter.

Now, you know. How does your new asshole feel?

 

[georgephillip]

What does the word "Palestine" refer to in the two different mandates?

If you expect any expert consideration, find some links that don't include "Add to Cart"

Until your last post, you haven't shown anything that would qualify you as an authority on the Middle East.

Although you certainly qualify as the biggest asshole.

 

[Marc39]

What does the word "Palestine" refer to in the two different mandates?

There is only one Palestine Mandate. Open a book, for once in your life.

 

[Marc39]

What does the word "Palestine" refer to in the two different mandates?

If you expect any expert consideration, find some links that don't include "Add to Cart"

Until your last post, you haven't shown anything that would qualify you as an authority on the Middle East.

Although you certainly qualify as the biggest asshole.

 

[georgephillip]

Zionism as social Darwinism...

"What was needed was a popular Zionist version of the social-Darwinism which had swept the bourgeois intellectual world in the wake of Europe’s imperial conquests in Africa and the East.

"The Zionist version of this notion was developed by the Austrian anthropologist Ignatz Zollschan. To him the secret value of Judaism was that it had, albeit inadvertently, worked to produce a wonder of wonders:

"a nation of pure blood, not tainted by diseases of excess or immorality, of a highly developed sense of family purity, and of deeply rooted virtuous habits would develop an exceptional intellectual activity.

"Furthermore, the prohibition against mixed marriage provided that these highest ethnical treasures should not be lost, through the admixture of less carefully bred races ... there resulted that natural selection which has no parallel in the history of the human race ...

"If a race that is so highly gifted were to have the opportunity of again developing its original power, nothing could equal it as far as cultural value is concerned."

What cultural value do you find in Apartheid?

Zionism is

 

[Marc39]

Zionism as social Darwinism

Ardent Zionist Martin Luther King, Jr. was highly evolved. Nazi kook George, not so much.

MLK, Jr...

When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism.

I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.

I solemnly pledge to do my utmost to uphold the fair name of the Jews -- because bigotry in any form is an affront to us all.

"I have a dream" for peace in the Middle East / King's special bond with Israel

 

[Marc39]

What cultural value do you find in Apartheid?

All Israeli citizens are constitutionaly guaranteed democracy, freedom, equal rights and civil liberties.

Apartheid Arab countries, not so much.

What About The Arab Apartheid?
by Khaled Abu Toameh

How come the Lebanese students who recently talked about Israel's "war crimes" in the Gaza Strip during Israel Apartheid Week on many North American college campuses had nothing to say about the fact that tens of thousands of Palestinians have been massacred in Lebanon over the past four decades?

Dozens of refugees were killed and hundreds wounded in the three-month offensive that also destroyed thousands of houses inside the refugee camp. Reporters said it was the worst internal violence in Lebanon since the civil war that hit the country between 1975-1990. And just three years ago, the Lebanese Army used heavy artillery to bomb the Nahr-al-Bared refugee camp in north Lebanon. Yet who has ever heard of a United Nations resolution condemning Syria or Lebanon for committing horrific atrocities or discriminating against the Palestinians?

The Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian students and professors who took part in the anti-Israel events on campuses have clearly "forgotten" that their regimes probably have more Palestinian blood on their hands than Israel. In the early 1970s, the Jordanians slaughtered thousands of Palestinians in what has become known as Black September. Can somebody point to one United Nations resolution condemning that massacre?

And where was the United Nations when Kuwait and several Gulf countries expelled more than 400,000 Palestinians in one week? The exodus took place in March 1991, after Kuwait was liberated from Iraqi occupation. Ironically, the first week of March is being celebrated on university campuses as Israel Apartheid Week with no reference to the mass expulsion of Palestinians from the Gulf. Although there are more than 400,000 Palestinians living in Lebanon in twelve refugee camps -- which human rights organizations and Palestinians say have the worst living conditions of all the refugee camps in the Middle East -- as in most of the Arab countries, these Palestinians have been assigned the status of "foreigners," a fact which has deprived them of health care, social services, property ownership and education.

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[georgephillip]

The sort of bigotry Israel repeatedly inflicts on those living in the occupied territories.

How much would MLK have in common with Bibi?

About as much as FW???

 

[Marc39]

The sort of bigotry Israel repeatedly inflicts on those living in the occupied territories.

Israel occupies...Israel. Arab trash illegally occupy Israel.

The League of Nations agreed...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...

Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.

Barack Obama agrees...:

Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.

It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States. The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice

Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


Winston Churchill agreed...:

The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it

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The US Congress agrees...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/