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[ding]

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

But the science doesn’t say no beginning, dipshit.

you are making so much sense
and you really enhance your arguments with the insults --that's ingenious

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

 

[ding]

Stop being silly.

The fact that you deny the science tells me you don’t like what it means.

we've been over this before
plain and simple --you can't prove there is a god
.....we have NO idea what a god would be like--what the beginning of the Universe was like/etc ..it's all speculation-imagination----

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.

 

[hobelim]

Yes, other religions have their guide books but they are not all the same, nether have you come up with the same stuff.

Here we are 6000 years after the law was given as a light to the nations and most people on earth still do not understand the importance of standing guard over the purity of their own mind or the danger of losing their sanity, sometimes for life, for failing to do so.

..it's all made up by man--not god
....the Jews don't believe jesus is god-etc/the christians do/the muslims something else/the atheist/etc = all man made and nobody knows anything

lol.. So man never had an intelligent thought worth writing down?

Your problem is that you are lazy.

You never bothered to think very deeply enough about it to differentiate between one writing or another so you have taken the easy way out, its all bullshit.. Brilliant!

But since you may not live long enough to come up with this on your own, I will tell you.

some teaching is clean, some teaching is unclean.

your problem is you still think like a child --fairy tales

So fairy tales are teaching nothing because nobody know anything?

lol....

You don't even think.


Hence the wisdom of God in giving the command to refrain from the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

you shar doo hav a lot of fancy words thar

Ok. I'll keep it simple.


If you fill your mind with nonsense you will say and do stupid things and your life will become a living hell.


Many people live out their entire lives this way in complete confusion never knowing why one day they are happy, another day they are sad, sometimes they are filled with hope and other times feel only despair.


Now you know why. They, like you, have failed to stand guard over the purity of their own mind.

smarten up .

 

[BreezeWood]

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Exactly. You are so ignorant of the science that that is a you can say.

Dear ding
Aren't we all ignorant of the science, to varying degrees
and in various areas where we all specialize in different approaches.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers
in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

Of course we all are lacking in knowledge, including you and me.
When is this a reason to be negative to one another?

.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.

the same hollow words have remained the same since the 4th century. uninterrupted without remorse.

 

[hobelim]

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

But the science doesn’t say no beginning, dipshit.

you are making so much sense
and you really enhance your arguments with the insults --that's ingenious

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

No ding. The bible says that God created heaven and earth. A world above and the world below, which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or space or time.

The law, a light to the nations, is the firmament, basis, of heaven that stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Before this light was spoken into existence the earth was without shape or form and void, and darkness covered the face of the unknown.

 

[emilynghiem]

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Exactly. You are so ignorant of the science that that is a you can say.

Dear ding
Aren't we all ignorant of the science, to varying degrees
and in various areas where we all specialize in different approaches.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers
in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

Of course we all are lacking in knowledge, including you and me.
When is this a reason to be negative to one another?

.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.

the same hollow words have remained the same since the 4th century. uninterrupted without remorse.

Dear BreezeWood On both counts
1. First, I sincerely believe in and commit to full INCLUSION of diversity in
spiritual, political and religious beliefs, whatever system someone uses.

I don't believe in rejecting or excluding anyone, only if THEY want to remove
themselves from a group I respect THEIR choice.
As for me, I am not going to exclude anyone unless they want this.
We'd have to agree on terms of either inclusion or exclusion so that person is accommodated by their wishes.

I totally trust that by including people instead of excluding, we can
better COMMUNICATE to remove error, to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way.

That communication process requires INCLUSION of people, just like you
who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that
doesn't go unchecked but any fault or flaw gets pointed out and corrected.

If you are complaining about other people or groups, in the past and present,
I agree there has always been destructive politics, corruption and abuses in both government and religious institutions.

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain
???

2. Secondly, I am very remorsely, regretful and sorry that so much wrong and suffering
has been going on with both religious and political abuses.

When I first became aware of all this building up cumulatively and collectively over centuries and generations,
I went into shock and grief when I realized it all needed to be corrected and resolved so humanity could heal
and be made whole.

You may see this as a joke, but I see it as so tragic it is heartbreaking.

I'm sorry that you doubt my sincerity and faith, you seem skeptical that there can be any
real establishment of truth by working with all people of all faith backgrounds as I am asking and seeking.

Whatever is causing you to reject me or others "just because of false Christian corruption and misteaching in the past"
I pray that this burden no longer bias your perception and diminish your faith.

You seem to have a strong sense of conscience and want nothing less than perfect truth.

I do not understand why you feel that other people like me are not also seeking universal truth
as you are.

Why do you insist on dividing, rejecting and separating other people from
the process you see of teaching and establishing truth.

Why do you think I am not part of that same process unfolding,
or other people are not?

Which group of people do you trust to be teaching correctly besides yourself?

Can you please tell me a frame of reference you are using to judge people?

Can you please explain why you would judge me for the actions or misteachings of others?

???

 

[harmonica]

we've been over this before
plain and simple --you can't prove there is a god
.....we have NO idea what a god would be like--what the beginning of the Universe was like/etc ..it's all speculation-imagination----

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.

and creation--don't forget creation where god magically created man

 

[iamwhatiseem]

True story.... when I was 16 I was in a 80 mph car crash that totaled 4 cars.... I was in the back seat.
The car we were in was smashed beyond recognition, you would have done very well to figure out what the model was.
Somehow, I hardly had a scratch. I don't know or remember how I got out of the car. The driver was killed, the passenger was thrown out the front window.
None of the doors were in any way able to be opened, the car was smashed in such a way there is no way I could have went through the front or back window.
Yet somehow there I was. Unharmed.

 

[ding]

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.

and creation--don't forget creation where god magically created man

Actually Genesis says that man is a product of creation. Something you would have understood if you weren’t such a big dipshit.

 

[ding]

But the science doesn’t say no beginning, dipshit.

you are making so much sense
and you really enhance your arguments with the insults --that's ingenious

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

No ding. The bible says that God created heaven and earth. A world above and the world below, which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or space or time.

The law, a light to the nations, is the firmament, basis, of heaven that stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Before this light was spoken into existence the earth was without shape or form and void, and darkness covered the face of the unknown.

No. That’s what you think it means.

Genesis describes that God created space and time and that man is a product of that creation

Something science has confirmed.

 

[ding]

But the science doesn’t say no beginning, dipshit.

you are making so much sense
and you really enhance your arguments with the insults --that's ingenious

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

No ding. The bible says that God created heaven and earth. A world above and the world below, which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or space or time.

The law, a light to the nations, is the firmament, basis, of heaven that stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Before this light was spoken into existence the earth was without shape or form and void, and darkness covered the face of the unknown.

Bar Ilan University’s Professor Nathan Aviezer, author of the book In the Beginning, told The Times of Israel:

“Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

Could New Scientific Discovery Support Creation?

Nathan Aviezer - Wikipedia

 

[BreezeWood]

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Exactly. You are so ignorant of the science that that is a you can say.

Dear ding
Aren't we all ignorant of the science, to varying degrees
and in various areas where we all specialize in different approaches.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers
in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

Of course we all are lacking in knowledge, including you and me.
When is this a reason to be negative to one another?

.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.

the same hollow words have remained the same since the 4th century. uninterrupted without remorse.

Dear BreezeWood On both counts
1. First, I sincerely believe in and commit to full INCLUSION of diversity in
spiritual, political and religious beliefs, whatever system someone uses.

I don't believe in rejecting or excluding anyone, only if THEY want to remove
themselves from a group I respect THEIR choice.
As for me, I am not going to exclude anyone unless they want this.
We'd have to agree on terms of either inclusion or exclusion so that person is accommodated by their wishes.

I totally trust that by including people instead of excluding, we can
better COMMUNICATE to remove error, to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way.

That communication process requires INCLUSION of people, just like you
who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that
doesn't go unchecked but any fault or flaw gets pointed out and corrected.

If you are complaining about other people or groups, in the past and present,
I agree there has always been destructive politics, corruption and abuses in both government and religious institutions.

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain
???

2. Secondly, I am very remorsely, regretful and sorry that so much wrong and suffering
has been going on with both religious and political abuses.

When I first became aware of all this building up cumulatively and collectively over centuries and generations,
I went into shock and grief when I realized it all needed to be corrected and resolved so humanity could heal
and be made whole.

You may see this as a joke, but I see it as so tragic it is heartbreaking.

I'm sorry that you doubt my sincerity and faith, you seem skeptical that there can be any
real establishment of truth by working with all people of all faith backgrounds as I am asking and seeking.

Whatever is causing you to reject me or others "just because of false Christian corruption and misteaching in the past"
I pray that this burden no longer bias your perception and diminish your faith.

You seem to have a strong sense of conscience and want nothing less than perfect truth.

I do not understand why you feel that other people like me are not also seeking universal truth
as you are.

Why do you insist on dividing, rejecting and separating other people from
the process you see of teaching and establishing truth.

Why do you think I am not part of that same process unfolding,
or other people are not?

Which group of people do you trust to be teaching correctly besides yourself?

Can you please tell me a frame of reference you are using to judge people?

Can you please explain why you would judge me for the actions or misteachings of others?

???

.

I totally trust that by including people instead of excluding, we can
better COMMUNICATE to remove error, to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way.

to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way ...

you have had 1600 years since the 4th century to correct the errant christian bible, missrepresentation of the 1st century -

That communication process requires INCLUSION of people, just like you
who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that
doesn't go unchecked but any fault or flaw gets pointed out and corrected.

who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that doesn't go unchecked

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

the above is a forgery - the document itself is a political thesis disguised as a religion there is no 4th century jesus there never was a messiah. the collective humanity is its own destiny.

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain

Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people -

there has never been a condemnation by your 4th century religion for any of its uninterrupted history of persecution and victimization of the innocent from the 4th century to the present day - that is who you speak for lynghiem, your lack of remorse and reference to a false 4th century christ impedes the religion of antiquity, prescribed by the Almighty and for those, the true 1st century events destined for its success where you, your false religion is an absolute and threatening obstacle.

how can there be spiritual experiences for who believe a messiah will save them ...

 

[ding]

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Exactly. You are so ignorant of the science that that is a you can say.

Dear ding
Aren't we all ignorant of the science, to varying degrees
and in various areas where we all specialize in different approaches.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers
in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

Of course we all are lacking in knowledge, including you and me.
When is this a reason to be negative to one another?

.

Isn't it more effective that you and I, as fellow believers in following the laws of God and teachings in Christ Jesus,
that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom,
not seeking to compete, reject them or defend our own ego's
by diminishing someone else for shortcomings they might have as we all do.

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.

the same hollow words have remained the same since the 4th century. uninterrupted without remorse.

Dear BreezeWood On both counts
1. First, I sincerely believe in and commit to full INCLUSION of diversity in
spiritual, political and religious beliefs, whatever system someone uses.

I don't believe in rejecting or excluding anyone, only if THEY want to remove
themselves from a group I respect THEIR choice.
As for me, I am not going to exclude anyone unless they want this.
We'd have to agree on terms of either inclusion or exclusion so that person is accommodated by their wishes.

I totally trust that by including people instead of excluding, we can
better COMMUNICATE to remove error, to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way.

That communication process requires INCLUSION of people, just like you
who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that
doesn't go unchecked but any fault or flaw gets pointed out and corrected.

If you are complaining about other people or groups, in the past and present,
I agree there has always been destructive politics, corruption and abuses in both government and religious institutions.

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain
???

2. Secondly, I am very remorsely, regretful and sorry that so much wrong and suffering
has been going on with both religious and political abuses.

When I first became aware of all this building up cumulatively and collectively over centuries and generations,
I went into shock and grief when I realized it all needed to be corrected and resolved so humanity could heal
and be made whole.

You may see this as a joke, but I see it as so tragic it is heartbreaking.

I'm sorry that you doubt my sincerity and faith, you seem skeptical that there can be any
real establishment of truth by working with all people of all faith backgrounds as I am asking and seeking.

Whatever is causing you to reject me or others "just because of false Christian corruption and misteaching in the past"
I pray that this burden no longer bias your perception and diminish your faith.

You seem to have a strong sense of conscience and want nothing less than perfect truth.

I do not understand why you feel that other people like me are not also seeking universal truth
as you are.

Why do you insist on dividing, rejecting and separating other people from
the process you see of teaching and establishing truth.

Why do you think I am not part of that same process unfolding,
or other people are not?

Which group of people do you trust to be teaching correctly besides yourself?

Can you please tell me a frame of reference you are using to judge people?

Can you please explain why you would judge me for the actions or misteachings of others?

???

.

I totally trust that by including people instead of excluding, we can
better COMMUNICATE to remove error, to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way.

to correct misperceptions or misrepresentation/misteachigns, and to establish universal truth this way ...

you have had 1600 years since the 4th century to correct the errant christian bible, missrepresentation of the 1st century -

That communication process requires INCLUSION of people, just like you
who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that
doesn't go unchecked but any fault or flaw gets pointed out and corrected.

who are committed to offering corrections so there is no false teaching that doesn't go unchecked

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

the above is a forgery - the document itself is a political thesis disguised as a religion there is no 4th century jesus there never was a messiah. the collective humanity is its own destiny.

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain

Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people -

View attachment 261140

there has never been a condemnation by your 4th century religion for any of its uninterrupted history of persecution and victimization of the innocent from the 4th century to the present day - that is who you speak for lynghiem, your lack of remorse and reference to a false 4th century christ impedes the religion of antiquity, prescribed by the Almighty and for those, the true 1st century events destined for its success where you, your false religion is an absolute and threatening obstacle.

how can there be spiritual experiences for who believe a messiah will save them ...

What was misrepresented? Be specific.

 

[emilynghiem]

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.​

​

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain

Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people -

View attachment 261140

there has never been a condemnation by your 4th century religion for any of its uninterrupted history of persecution and victimization of the innocent from the 4th century to the present day - that is who you speak for lynghiem, your lack of remorse and reference to a false 4th century christ impedes the religion of antiquity, prescribed by the Almighty and for those, the true 1st century events destined for its success where you, your false religion is an absolute and threatening obstacle.

how can there be spiritual experiences for who believe a messiah will save them ...

Hi BreezeWood I am going to go back and give a WINNER rating to your response
because now we are finally getting somewhere. THANK YOU for your direct reply clarifying where this rebuke is coming from!

1. First of all I do not speak for this "religion" but come at it with the SAME GRIEVANCES
you state above. I AGREE WITH YOU there needs to be an organized spiritual rebuke IN FULL SPIRITUAL
AGREEMENT that the POINT IS TO ESTABLISH TRUTH.

2. The reason there 'HAS NEVER BEEN A CONDEMNATION' is that it has been splintered and disorganized.
There have ALWAYS been ATTEMPTS but they end up like you and me arguing amongst ourselves
and not combining efforts into an AGREE UNIFIED PUBLIC REBUKE as you and I have BOTH ARGUED IS NEEDED AND MISSING.

EXACTLY! BreezeWood I cannot say THANK YOU ENOUGH!

If we divide against ourselves, even as you and I struggle to agree with how to go about such a mass correction,
THAT'S WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE EFFECTIVELY

But since you are just as adamant as I am (if not more, as I am ALSO trying to set up proper rebuke for state/govt authority and abuses, as well as church/religious abuses of authority "at the same time" so that's why it takes me longer to organize both),

NOW together you and I and others seeking to rebuke can join forces and
ACHIEVE what has not been done properly over many centuries and generations of this bickering and wars.

3. As for me personally, I did not gain "awareness" of ANY issue with "religions" affecting me
until 1990. I started with just knowing the final answers, truth and resolution "were in the future."

I had revelations that NONE of the churches were teaching it correctly and that's why we weren't realizing this universal truth YET.
I saw in the future that it WILL HAPPEN but all churches were going to have to change how they taught
and start putting together this GREATER truth that takes ALL people of ALL tribes and religions to put together.

In this process, I also had visions of why the Constitutional govt and leaders weren't teaching the laws correctly either.
So all the political problems and solutions were going through this same process as the churches and religious leaders!

So both processes are about reforming the current church-state leadership and institutions
TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LAWS THAT ARE UNIVERSAL and teach those correctly to begin with!

4. So if you want to start judging me, you can start the clock at
* May 1990 when I first had spiritual visions of the future and realizations of where society was heading
* January 1992 when I took a public oath to uphold the First Amendment to the Constitution and all religions protected thereunder
www.ethics-commission.net
* June 1996 when I vowed to defend the Constitutional rights and plans of Freedmen's Town leaders and community
to preserve and restore the national historic District as a sustainable community campus www.campusplan.org
These federal plans for reforming public housing were later expanded into a larger plan to replicate sustainable campus town communities along the Border www.earnedamnesty.org
* Second half of 1999 when I went through deep spiritual healing to resolve karma I had with both church and state and break "generational curses" that were blocking the process and keeping me stuck in bad karma from the past
* 2008-2016 when I started more outreach with Constitutional allies and approaches to addressing govt abuses. I specifically felt called to address the Democrats, Greens, Occupy, and Peace and Justice communities, as well as the Tea Party independents preaching reform
* 2016-2018 when Harvey hit and I had to let everything go and start over because I could not pursue any plans
And this year 2019 when I found more spiritual support to pursue "civil obedience" outreach and Constitutional corrections to church-state issues such as health care and right to life that are currently dividing people by party. (both Constitutionalist leaders as well as certain pastors and community leaders called to either criminal justice or peace and justice reforms or both)

Where we seem to agree is on RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. That is what I am saying is the meaning and message behind Christ Jesus. So it's RESTORATIVE JUSTICE that saves humanity, not some personified figure but what Jesus REPRESENTS universal to all humanity.

You are free to start judging me since 1990 and argue none of my own efforts have been successful "collectively" YET. But individually, working one on one with neighbors and groups one at a time to resolve issues and grow from there, I and others who believe in RESTORATIVE JUSTICE have succeeded in resolving relationships with various people trying to help with this larger process.

I haven't yet succeeded in reaching an understanding or agreement with you
but I believe we will succeed because we are both committed to this rebuke of false Christian teachings, abuse and corruption.
That is both of our responsibility for resolving communication between you and me
BEFORE we expect to take on larger groups. We should at least correct problems this has caused between you and me first!

When did you start trying to teach these corrections?

When does your clock start?

I don't think it is fair at all to judge you if you have never successfully presented a correction either
in all this time you have been called to START working on it.

You and I weren't there when this process started, but we are here now doing our part
until a greater and greater consensus is formed to establish truth and eradicate error by corrections!

Thank you and I encourage you to keep forming allies to further promote this rebuke and correction.

We are more effective when we work in agreement to establish truth,
not distract and divide by blaming who did or did not do enough to correct these problems.

You and I both seek and know that the REAL TRUTH will dispel the falsehoods.

Let's keep finding better more effective ways to communicate where the errors need to be corrected.
We do better working as allies in teams to help others make the corrections
until it's clear and we are all in agreement we have arrived at the same universal truth.

Thank you BreezeWood
You get a WINNER from me and I wish there was a button to give you 5 1/2 stars!

 

[ding]

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.​

​

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain

Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people -

View attachment 261140

there has never been a condemnation by your 4th century religion for any of its uninterrupted history of persecution and victimization of the innocent from the 4th century to the present day - that is who you speak for lynghiem, your lack of remorse and reference to a false 4th century christ impedes the religion of antiquity, prescribed by the Almighty and for those, the true 1st century events destined for its success where you, your false religion is an absolute and threatening obstacle.

how can there be spiritual experiences for who believe a messiah will save them ...

Hi BreezeWood I am going to go back and give a WINNER rating to your response
because now we are finally getting somewhere. THANK YOU for your direct reply clarifying where this rebuke is coming from!

1. First of all I do not speak for this "religion" but come at it with the SAME GRIEVANCES
you state above. I AGREE WITH YOU there needs to be an organized spiritual rebuke IN FULL SPIRITUAL
AGREEMENT that the POINT IS TO ESTABLISH TRUTH.

2. The reason there 'HAS NEVER BEEN A CONDEMNATION' is that it has been splintered and disorganized.
There have ALWAYS been ATTEMPTS but they end up like you and me arguing amongst ourselves
and not combining efforts into an AGREE UNIFIED PUBLIC REBUKE as you and I have BOTH ARGUED IS NEEDED AND MISSING.

EXACTLY! BreezeWood I cannot say THANK YOU ENOUGH!

If we divide against ourselves, even as you and I struggle to agree with how to go about such a mass correction,
THAT'S WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE EFFECTIVELY

But since you are just as adamant as I am (if not more, as I am ALSO trying to set up proper rebuke for state/govt authority and abuses, as well as church/religious abuses of authority "at the same time" so that's why it takes me longer to organize both),

NOW together you and I and others seeking to rebuke can join forces and
ACHIEVE what has not been done properly over many centuries and generations of this bickering and wars.

3. As for me personally, I did not gain "awareness" of ANY issue with "religions" affecting me
until 1990. I started with just knowing the final answers, truth and resolution "were in the future."

I had revelations that NONE of the churches were teaching it correctly and that's why we weren't realizing this universal truth YET.
I saw in the future that it WILL HAPPEN but all churches were going to have to change how they taught
and start putting together this GREATER truth that takes ALL people of ALL tribes and religions to put together.

In this process, I also had visions of why the Constitutional govt and leaders weren't teaching the laws correctly either.
So all the political problems and solutions were going through this same process as the churches and religious leaders!

So both processes are about reforming the current church-state leadership and institutions
TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LAWS THAT ARE UNIVERSAL and teach those correctly to begin with!

4. So if you want to start judging me, you can start the clock at
* May 1990 when I first had spiritual visions of the future and realizations of where society was heading
* January 1992 when I took a public oath to uphold the First Amendment to the Constitution and all religions protected thereunder
www.ethics-commission.net
* June 1996 when I vowed to defend the Constitutional rights and plans of Freedmen's Town leaders and community
to preserve and restore the national historic District as a sustainable community campus www.campusplan.org
These federal plans for reforming public housing were later expanded into a larger plan to replicate sustainable campus town communities along the Border www.earnedamnesty.org
* Second half of 1999 when I went through deep spiritual healing to resolve karma I had with both church and state and break "generational curses" that were blocking the process and keeping me stuck in bad karma from the past
* 2008-2016 when I started more outreach with Constitutional allies and approaches to addressing govt abuses. I specifically felt called to address the Democrats, Greens, Occupy, and Peace and Justice communities, as well as the Tea Party independents preaching reform
* 2016-2018 when Harvey hit and I had to let everything go and start over because I could not pursue any plans
And this year 2019 when I found more spiritual support to pursue "civil obedience" outreach and Constitutional corrections to church-state issues such as health care and right to life that are currently dividing people by party. (both Constitutionalist leaders as well as certain pastors and community leaders called to either criminal justice or peace and justice reforms or both)

Where we seem to agree is on RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. That is what I am saying is the meaning and message behind Christ Jesus. So it's RESTORATIVE JUSTICE that saves humanity, not some personified figure but what Jesus REPRESENTS universal to all humanity.

You are free to start judging me since 1990 and argue none of my own efforts have been successful "collectively" YET. But individually, working one on one with neighbors and groups one at a time to resolve issues and grow from there, I and others who believe in RESTORATIVE JUSTICE have succeeded in resolving relationships with various people trying to help with this larger process.

I haven't yet succeeded in reaching an understanding or agreement with you
but I believe we will succeed because we are both committed to this rebuke of false Christian teachings, abuse and corruption.
That is both of our responsibility for resolving communication between you and me
BEFORE we expect to take on larger groups. We should at least correct problems this has caused between you and me first!

When did you start trying to teach these corrections?

When does your clock start?

I don't think it is fair at all to judge you if you have never successfully presented a correction either
in all this time you have been called to START working on it.

You and I weren't there when this process started, but we are here now doing our part
until a greater and greater consensus is formed to establish truth and eradicate error by corrections!

Thank you and I encourage you to keep forming allies to further promote this rebuke and correction.

We are more effective when we work in agreement to establish truth,
not distract and divide by blaming who did or did not do enough to correct these problems.

You and I both seek and know that the REAL TRUTH will dispel the falsehoods.

Let's keep finding better more effective ways to communicate where the errors need to be corrected.
We do better working as allies in teams to help others make the corrections
until it's clear and we are all in agreement we have arrived at the same universal truth.

Thank you BreezeWood
You get a WINNER from me and I wish there was a button to give you 5 1/2 stars!

Which false teachings? Can you be specific?

 

[emilynghiem]

So the universe having a beginning scares you

.....where do you people get the ''scare'' word from?? you don't have anything else, so you use that ..they use it in the race threads
....you make no sense and are just pulling crap out of the air--if anyone should be scared of no beginning, it would be you people

Probably because it makes no sense to deny the science like you are doing.

what science is that??
???!!!! what????

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.

and creation--don't forget creation where god magically created man

Dear harmonica
if "man" came from "nature" then that's the same as man coming from God.
Whatever you call the source of life or laws of nature, that's the same as what "God" is used to represent. That source. And yes, you can believe there is no beginning, the Universe is infinite with no beginning or end, and that is still consistent with using "God" to mean that as well.

So what if people like to use allegories to describe the stages of development.
Using "Jesus" or "God" or "spirit" to mean intangible things
doesn't change the fact that humanity is evolving, in stages, so that part is still true.
No matter what terms or symbolism is used to describe this universal process.

The meaning behind Bible symbolism and storytelling is that
JUSTICE is a collective principle that all human beings have a sense of INNATELY.
And the point of the process "represented symbolically" in the Bible is for
humanity to progress from "Retributive Justice" in the Old Testament (that bring
war and death) to "Restorative Justice" in the New Testament (that restores peace and brings new life). That's why Jesus is used to represent Universal LAWS of JUSTICE becoming EMBODIED in man to fulfill this process for humanity on earth. Jesus means Equal Justice to the secular followers under natural laws, and means Salvation to bring Peace to the spiritual followers under scriptural laws. So Peace and Justice brings both church and state together to fulfill all these laws no matter what audience or language they are presented.

The concept of "divine justice" being EMBODIED in the people means
moving from OLD SCHOOL stages of development of depending on outside authority
(the OT where people are like "children" and need PARENTAL authority to discipline by the rules using FORCE of punishment for breaking rules and rewards for following rules etc.)
to the NEW SCHOOL or mature stages of development where
people EVOLVE and use REASON and CONSCIENCE/FREE WILL to
"learn study and teach from the past" in order to resolve problems and build
a better future, a sustainable civil society based on CHOOSING to do what
is right not depending on "mommy or daddy" or "church and state leaders"
to tell you right from wrong. People become SELF GOVERNING by learning
the laws and invoking authority to manage ourselves in society democratically by free choice.

That is where we are EVOLVING to reach, that state of social and political maturity
to become self-governing states living in harmony by cooperative systems of economics and govt.

So what if people use "Jesus on the Cross" to teach the process of
how Justice has two sides, the Retributive Justice and the Restorative Justice approach,
where each person "gets the justice we enforce for others equally as ourselves."

The PROCESS of establishing "peace and justice" equally for all people
is UNIVERSAL, starting with ourselves, and affecting relations and collective society around us.

WE all experience this process in our own relative ways by our own perspectives, languages, and relationships
including with institutions that we influence and which influence us.

So this is a universal process all humanity is going through, but in different ways.

Where did this process come from?

Man did not invent or create himself.

We did not make up the laws of nature or justice that govern
and motivate the human conscience by its own psychological design!

All that programming came with us as we developed.

So whatever you call this " universal process of establishing TRUTH and JUSTICE"
we humans did not invent this process. At most, we come up with LANGUAGES
for laws and TERMS to try to quantify it. The Bible tries to describe the laws
for resolving conflicts (such as Matthew 18:15-20). The First Amendment
spells out that we need free exercise of religion, freedom of speech and press,
and right to assemble and to petition in ORDER to exercise "democratic
due process of laws" to have civil relations, peace and justice in society.

The language for laws, in govt and in religion, may be man made
but the RULES the natural laws and universal laws that these
"man made systems" are based on and reflect, the UNDERLYING
principles were already in existence and nothing that man "makes up."

We didn't make up the laws of science governing this world.
Nor the laws of how the human conscience is designed and works
both individually and collectively to influence people in society as a whole.

Our laws and languages ATTEMPT to spell out these laws
but they existed before we ever developed conscious knowledge
or language to try to explain how these laws work that already come built into the universe.

 

[Flopper]

you are making so much sense
and you really enhance your arguments with the insults --that's ingenious

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

No ding. The bible says that God created heaven and earth. A world above and the world below, which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or space or time.

The law, a light to the nations, is the firmament, basis, of heaven that stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Before this light was spoken into existence the earth was without shape or form and void, and darkness covered the face of the unknown.

No. That’s what you think it means.

Genesis describes that God created space and time and that man is a product of that creation

Something science has confirmed.

I would ask you to explain how science confirms God created space and time but I think I have heard the answer before. It goes something like this. Since no one was around to observe the event, there is no evidence that God didn't create space and time. Furthermore, science has no evidence, just a theory. So it's obvious the universe was created by God because the Bible tells of us so. And for evidence, just look around. That should be all the evidence you need.

 

[emilynghiem]

I reserve them especially for you.

you're babbling ---you don't even make sense anymore

It’s pretty simple. Space and time had a beginning. Just like the Bible says.

No ding. The bible says that God created heaven and earth. A world above and the world below, which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the beginning of the universe or space or time.

The law, a light to the nations, is the firmament, basis, of heaven that stretches out high above your head from horizon to horizon like a crystal clear vault.

Before this light was spoken into existence the earth was without shape or form and void, and darkness covered the face of the unknown.

No. That’s what you think it means.

Genesis describes that God created space and time and that man is a product of that creation

Something science has confirmed.

I would ask you to explain how science confirms God created space and time but I think I have heard the answer before. It goes something like this. Since no one was around to observe the event, there is no evidence that God didn't create space and time. Furthermore, science has no evidence, just a theory. So it's obvious the universe was created by God because the Bible tells of us so. And for evidence, just look around. That should be all the evidence you need.

Dear Flopper yes and no.
"God" is used like a variable to represent these abstract things.
It doesn't mean the VALUE behind the symbol doesn't exist.

We can neither prove nor disprove how the universe and its laws came about
because NONE of us were physically there to witness all this.
It's all faith based, even the science that may or may not be necessary.

As long as people AGREE what to call things, then it's for
practical purposes we use terms to COMMUNICATE
whatever we are referring to.

So if the whole point is to discuss what are the PREEXISTING
laws of nature, the universe and human nature in order
to agree how to relate to each other and institutions in society,
let's talk about that. Using whatever terms make sense
to the people having the conversation.

If "God" does not make sense to you, there is nothing wrong
with talking about the universal laws of nature or human society
and government. What does it take to realize peace and justice
in the real world. That's what the point is of using variable like
"God" and "Jesus" to represent universal TRUTH and JUSTICE.
if the point is to discuss that, why not just translate into secular terms
and have the same discussions?

If we all want to see "equal justice for all" and bring an end to abuses and
corruption and oppression, how do we define where the problems are
coming from and how the solutions can be implemented? How do we
fix broken relations and clean up corruption after institutions have abused
authority?

We can have these same discussions by translating God's will as meaning
"the greatest good for humanity" or "under God" as "the public GOOD."
We can agree to seek and submit to the authority of "Jesus" as
agreeing to establish "Equal Justice Under Law" for all people to be
united and protected equally instead of warring groups competing for power
which isn't protecting all groups or interests equally. So we can agree
to drop this for a better approach that brings Peace and Justice for ALL.

Can we agree what these symbols mean?
Then we can have more effective discussions and teamwork
how to go about collaborating to achieve this "universal peace and justice"
that both religions and political laws strive for.

 

[ABikerSailor]

When I was 16, I was living in a foster home and HATED being there. Why? Because the older sister was a pain, the mother looked at me like I was just a meal ticket, and the younger son was a pansy of the first degree. The only person I really got along with was the father Bob.

Well, after living there a couple of years, it got to be to the point where I didn't want to stay, and I planned on running away. First 2 attempts, I ended up being taken back to the foster family.

On the 3rd attempt, I ran away, and actually made it to Helena and went to the runaway home. My case worker was contacted, and he came by the home and told me that if I didn't go back, I was going to have to pay 80 bucks a night out of my own pocket to stay. I didn't have that much money, so I told him I would go get a bus ticket and go back.

Well, for some strange reason, the bus was running slightly ahead of schedule, and just as I got to the station, I saw it pulling out. I called my case worker and told him that I missed the bus and he told me to wait for the next one back to Missoulla. After I hung up, I went to the ticket counter and asked how much a ticket was to Chicago, and was told around 300 bucks. I only had around 40 bucks in my pocket, so I asked when the next bus was going, and where was it headed. He said the next one was in 30 min, and bound for Great Falls (where my Grandparents were), so I bought a ticket for 35 bucks and waited.

Ended up in Great Falls around midnight, and after walking from the station to a truck stop on the edge of town, I decided to use the money I had left to get something to eat.

After I finished eating, I started across the parking lot (had to get to Vaughn which was around 10 miles away), and a car with 3 college students in it stopped and asked if I needed a ride. I asked where they were going, and they said Missoulla, because they were going back to school. I told them I only needed to get to Vaughn (it was on the way), and if they could give me a ride there, I would appreciate it.

Well, they dropped me off in Vaughn, and then took off for Missoulla. I spent the night sleeping in the school yard, and when the sun came up, I got up and walked to my Grandparents. Grandma opened the door, asked what I was doing there and I told her I had run away. She asked if I was hungry, and fixed me breakfast. And, after we had talked for a bit, she told me I could stay there until I graduated high school.

Was it a spiritual experience? I think so, because I REALLY didn't want to go back to the foster family, and God knew I'd been praying for a way out, so He sent it to me in the form of a missed bus and fortunate timing for the bus to Great Falls. He also asked me if I was sure that this was what I wanted in the form of the college students who were going back to Missoulla, because the chances of something like that happening are very small.

Like I said, God provided a way for me to have a choice, but He also asked a second time to make sure that was what I wanted.

 

[emilynghiem]

that we address our neighbors with respect and inclusion in God's Kingdom ...

your a joke, lynghiem the inquisition cardinal new more astronomy than galileo to condemn him or for them to repent their sin ... are you suppose to be a new leaf for your phony religion.​

​

But how is it fair to judge me "as a joke" just because of failures of others?
Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people?
Can you please explain

Where are you getting that it's okay to judge a person based on other people -

View attachment 261140

there has never been a condemnation by your 4th century religion for any of its uninterrupted history of persecution and victimization of the innocent from the 4th century to the present day - that is who you speak for lynghiem, your lack of remorse and reference to a false 4th century christ impedes the religion of antiquity, prescribed by the Almighty and for those, the true 1st century events destined for its success where you, your false religion is an absolute and threatening obstacle.

how can there be spiritual experiences for who believe a messiah will save them ...

Hi BreezeWood I am going to go back and give a WINNER rating to your response
because now we are finally getting somewhere. THANK YOU for your direct reply clarifying where this rebuke is coming from!

1. First of all I do not speak for this "religion" but come at it with the SAME GRIEVANCES
you state above. I AGREE WITH YOU there needs to be an organized spiritual rebuke IN FULL SPIRITUAL
AGREEMENT that the POINT IS TO ESTABLISH TRUTH.

2. The reason there 'HAS NEVER BEEN A CONDEMNATION' is that it has been splintered and disorganized.
There have ALWAYS been ATTEMPTS but they end up like you and me arguing amongst ourselves
and not combining efforts into an AGREE UNIFIED PUBLIC REBUKE as you and I have BOTH ARGUED IS NEEDED AND MISSING.

EXACTLY! BreezeWood I cannot say THANK YOU ENOUGH!

If we divide against ourselves, even as you and I struggle to agree with how to go about such a mass correction,
THAT'S WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE EFFECTIVELY

But since you are just as adamant as I am (if not more, as I am ALSO trying to set up proper rebuke for state/govt authority and abuses, as well as church/religious abuses of authority "at the same time" so that's why it takes me longer to organize both),

NOW together you and I and others seeking to rebuke can join forces and
ACHIEVE what has not been done properly over many centuries and generations of this bickering and wars.

3. As for me personally, I did not gain "awareness" of ANY issue with "religions" affecting me
until 1990. I started with just knowing the final answers, truth and resolution "were in the future."

I had revelations that NONE of the churches were teaching it correctly and that's why we weren't realizing this universal truth YET.
I saw in the future that it WILL HAPPEN but all churches were going to have to change how they taught
and start putting together this GREATER truth that takes ALL people of ALL tribes and religions to put together.

In this process, I also had visions of why the Constitutional govt and leaders weren't teaching the laws correctly either.
So all the political problems and solutions were going through this same process as the churches and religious leaders!

So both processes are about reforming the current church-state leadership and institutions
TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LAWS THAT ARE UNIVERSAL and teach those correctly to begin with!

4. So if you want to start judging me, you can start the clock at
* May 1990 when I first had spiritual visions of the future and realizations of where society was heading
* January 1992 when I took a public oath to uphold the First Amendment to the Constitution and all religions protected thereunder
www.ethics-commission.net
* June 1996 when I vowed to defend the Constitutional rights and plans of Freedmen's Town leaders and community
to preserve and restore the national historic District as a sustainable community campus www.campusplan.org
These federal plans for reforming public housing were later expanded into a larger plan to replicate sustainable campus town communities along the Border www.earnedamnesty.org
* Second half of 1999 when I went through deep spiritual healing to resolve karma I had with both church and state and break "generational curses" that were blocking the process and keeping me stuck in bad karma from the past
* 2008-2016 when I started more outreach with Constitutional allies and approaches to addressing govt abuses. I specifically felt called to address the Democrats, Greens, Occupy, and Peace and Justice communities, as well as the Tea Party independents preaching reform
* 2016-2018 when Harvey hit and I had to let everything go and start over because I could not pursue any plans
And this year 2019 when I found more spiritual support to pursue "civil obedience" outreach and Constitutional corrections to church-state issues such as health care and right to life that are currently dividing people by party. (both Constitutionalist leaders as well as certain pastors and community leaders called to either criminal justice or peace and justice reforms or both)

Where we seem to agree is on RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. That is what I am saying is the meaning and message behind Christ Jesus. So it's RESTORATIVE JUSTICE that saves humanity, not some personified figure but what Jesus REPRESENTS universal to all humanity.

You are free to start judging me since 1990 and argue none of my own efforts have been successful "collectively" YET. But individually, working one on one with neighbors and groups one at a time to resolve issues and grow from there, I and others who believe in RESTORATIVE JUSTICE have succeeded in resolving relationships with various people trying to help with this larger process.

I haven't yet succeeded in reaching an understanding or agreement with you
but I believe we will succeed because we are both committed to this rebuke of false Christian teachings, abuse and corruption.
That is both of our responsibility for resolving communication between you and me
BEFORE we expect to take on larger groups. We should at least correct problems this has caused between you and me first!

When did you start trying to teach these corrections?

When does your clock start?

I don't think it is fair at all to judge you if you have never successfully presented a correction either
in all this time you have been called to START working on it.

You and I weren't there when this process started, but we are here now doing our part
until a greater and greater consensus is formed to establish truth and eradicate error by corrections!

Thank you and I encourage you to keep forming allies to further promote this rebuke and correction.

We are more effective when we work in agreement to establish truth,
not distract and divide by blaming who did or did not do enough to correct these problems.

You and I both seek and know that the REAL TRUTH will dispel the falsehoods.

Let's keep finding better more effective ways to communicate where the errors need to be corrected.
We do better working as allies in teams to help others make the corrections
until it's clear and we are all in agreement we have arrived at the same universal truth.

Thank you BreezeWood
You get a WINNER from me and I wish there was a button to give you 5 1/2 stars!

Which false teachings? Can you be specific?

ding The main issue I have taken on is why are Christians
taught to REJECT secular gentiles under natural laws instead of including them.
(And once that rejection and division is overcome, then we can use the same
authority of the laws to ENFORCE the secular laws equally as we use
scriptural laws for rebuke and correction. But this isn't being taught, by either
the church or state, only political bullying and blame back and forth.)

The scriptures in Matthew 18:15-20 describe the proper rebuke process
but this is NOT BEING TAUGHT OR PRACTICED among Christians.

As for the Catholic Church, many people have brought forth the grievance
that the real Sabbath falls on Friday evening and lasts till sundown on Saturday.
So there is a concerted rebuke and grievance by many diverse witnesses
dismissing the Catholic Authorities for continuing to teach by their own theology
and not following the Bible.

Because this was never addressed by instructions in Matthew,
it has caused division and been a stumbling block by which
people reject each other even as BreezeWood is doing.

There are other grievances and corrections I would offer.
Including the division over Spiritual Healing that has not
been established as universal truth on how this process works consistently.

The biggest issue I have run into ding is people are
not following "due process" and working consensually
to resolve issues, but start judging and rejecting which isn't
what the Bible instructs us to do. In civil terms we are supposed
to NOT punish or deprive people of liberty or rights UNTIL and
UNLESS due process is applied to convict someone first.
But we violate this all the time, judging people without giving
them an equal chance at defense and not seeking to reconcile
to ESTABLISH the truth first. We jump in and start rejecting.

So that is the worst part, is teaching UNFORGIVENESS
when the Bible clearly teaches us to forgive and ask
God's help to forgive.

I see this part of the message and process getting lost.

We correct that part, and the rest can correct itself
by working together instead of dividing and rejecting
over unforgiveness and blame projected between groups!