Another concealed carry owner doing the wrong thing

[DigitalDrifter]

Another long anti-gun thread where no minds will be changed.

It is however a good refresher to see which members who literally want to take one of your Bill of Rights away.

 

[Brain357]

It's not a silly response, it is a fact.

So 2.5 million times a year the criminal stopped is also armed now eh? Wow show me that study. Not only is the 2.5 million inaccurate but you guys keep adding things that aren't even in those crazy studies.

It does make sense. If you have a gun and something happens people are more likely to be shot than if nobody has a gun. Of course if they are found in the wrong for having done so they aren't very law abiding.

That is a silly response...if nobody had a gun....considering criminals kill 11-12,000 people a year...and murder is a crime...as is carrying a gun as a convicted felon....there are 11-12,000 times a year where somebody has a gun and uses it...better the victim also has a gun to stop it...as they do 2.5 million times a year....

 

[Brain357]

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

The statistics are clearly telling, and there is indeed a problem with gun violence in America.


But your 'solution' is no solution, if your 'solution' is more gun control, or prohibiting the carrying of a gun by citizens, the constitutionality of which not withstanding.


You're focusing only on the symptoms of the problem, without addressing the actual cause – and more gun control and restrictions will do nothing to address the actual cause of the problem.

 

[2aguy]

Brain357...I chased down the actual paper that your pump handle site linked about...you have,to pay to see what they actually say...so I won't be,reading more on that....

But on a side note...

Sexual Assaults Fell 90 After Colorado Springs University Legalized Campus Guns FrontPage Magazine

 

[Brain357]

I'm curious, what do you think should be addressed?

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

The statistics are clearly telling, and there is indeed a problem with gun violence in America.


But your 'solution' is no solution, if your 'solution' is more gun control, or prohibiting the carrying of a gun by citizens, the constitutionality of which not withstanding.


You're focusing only on the symptoms of the problem, without addressing the actual cause – and more gun control and restrictions will do nothing to address the actual cause of the problem.

 

[MXdad]

Those are interesting stats, thanks for sharing. Here is one thing that I do find disturbing however:

When compared with non-license holders, a higher proportion of license-holder convictions were for sexual offenses, weapons offenses, deadly conduct and offenses involving the intentional killing of a person.
Concealed handguns study takes a different approach to measuring risk 8211 The Pump Handle

Those seems like things you don't want an armed person to be doing.

Your link provides not specifics into this study, the numbers or how they were obtained. Basically at this point without more info it is not worthy of discussion unless you can provide more background

This is from your own source

The study authors note that while that risk is pretty small

Overall, Texans without a concealed handgun license committed many more crimes than their licensed counterparts. Study authors wrote that “CHL holders rarely ‘break bad.

 

[MXdad]

I'm curious, what do you think should be addressed?

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

The statistics are clearly telling, and there is indeed a problem with gun violence in America.


But your 'solution' is no solution, if your 'solution' is more gun control, or prohibiting the carrying of a gun by citizens, the constitutionality of which not withstanding.


You're focusing only on the symptoms of the problem, without addressing the actual cause – and more gun control and restrictions will do nothing to address the actual cause of the problem.

Focus on the criminal not the tool

 

[Brain357]

What would you do differently than now? Our jails already packed.

I'm curious, what do you think should be addressed?

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

The statistics are clearly telling, and there is indeed a problem with gun violence in America.


But your 'solution' is no solution, if your 'solution' is more gun control, or prohibiting the carrying of a gun by citizens, the constitutionality of which not withstanding.


You're focusing only on the symptoms of the problem, without addressing the actual cause – and more gun control and restrictions will do nothing to address the actual cause of the problem.

Focus on the criminal not the tool

 

[2aguy]

build more jails...especially for violent criminals and criminals who use guns to commit crimes...people complain that it is too expensive to house inmates...but it is much more expensive having them out on the streets hurting people.

 

[Brain357]

I believe we already have the highest incarceration rate in the world. It would be foolish to think that is the answer. Why do other countries with much lower incarceration rates also have lower crime?

build more jails...especially for violent criminals and criminals who use guns to commit crimes...people complain that it is too expensive to house inmates...but it is much more expensive having them out on the streets hurting people.

 

[2aguy]

Perhaps because fewer of their citizens commit crimes?

 

[mdk]

Goodness gracious, are we going to suffer a new thread every time a fool acts untoward with a firearm? If we limited our rights because of the acts of fools then we would have lost Freedom of Speech ages ago.

 

[2aguy]

Constitutionally protected rights are soooo...20th century....

 

[Brain357]

Accidental shooting at school that injured teacher sparks discussion on concealed carry laws fox13now.com

 

[Brain357]

More road rage:
Concealed carry holder misses attacker in Cleveland road rage incident shoots another man cleveland.com

 

[2aguy]

Murders with guns...not just road rage incidents....11-12,000 per year....vs....guns used to save lives and stop crime at a rate of 250-370,000 each year...and that number is just one study....others put the number at 600,000 another at 700,000 and a study requested by the police chiefs out it at over 1million a year....and the most famous study put it at 2.5 million...so, site your incidents one at a time. the truth of the numbers shows that more lives are saved by guns than are taken by them....

I know, it goes against what you believe but the truth is he truth...

 

[2aguy]

As to accidental death with guns...about 600-700 per year...vs...250-370,000 lives saved and crimes stopped...again...your numbers fail your beliefs....

 

[Brain357]

Yes, very accurate surveys. So anywhere from 250k to 2.5 million? With such a broad range it might just as easily be 0. Fact is it is much easier to find these incidents than find crimes stopped.

Here are the stats as I see them.

Here are some crime statistics:
https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

2009 - 10,639,000 crimes committed. Of those 15,200 murders. So murders are .001 of all crime. The most accurate numbers I have seen for crimes defensed with a gun is about 104,000. So of that 104,000 we could say 104 were lives saved by someone with a gun. Far less than your ridiculous 2.5 million, and also less than the number of accidental killings with guns. So guns do more damage than good.

Murders with guns...not just road rage incidents....11-12,000 per year....vs....guns used to save lives and stop crime at a rate of 250-370,000 each year...and that number is just one study....others put the number at 600,000 another at 700,000 and a study requested by the police chiefs out it at over 1million a year....and the most famous study put it at 2.5 million...so, site your incidents one at a time. the truth of the numbers shows that more lives are saved by guns than are taken by them....

I know, it goes against what you believe but the truth is he truth...

 

[2aguy]

Your 104,000 is a biased number from anti gun researchers, the 2.5 million number comes from a well respected survey from a researcher who began as an anti gun believer who changed his opinion after he studied the subject.


Accidental gun deaths...really...they are only about 600-700 per year" vs. lives saved by guns 2.5 million a year from a respected,study on the topic...not an anti gun study....