Mac1958
Diamond Member
How many times do you plan on illustrating my point for me?
Do you even realize you're doing it?
.
another black proving blacks are racist--not whites
- Thread starter harmonica
- Start date
Do you even realize you're doing it?
.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
Harmonica after reading the following article entitled 'Race based legislation in the North' do you still honestly believe that black people as a race are more racist than the white race?
People & Events
Race-based legislation in the North
1807 - 1850
To the fugitive slave fleeing a life of bondage, the North was a land of freedom. Or so he or she thought. Upon arriving there, the fugitive found that, though they were no longer slaves, neither were they free. African Americans in the North lived in a strange state of semi-freedom. The North may had emancipated its slaves, but it was not ready to treat the blacks as citizens. . . or sometimes even as human beings.
This was a time when European immigrants were pouring into the North. Many of these people had faced discrimination and hardship in their native countries. But in America they found their rights expanding rapidly. They had entered a country in which they were part of a privileged category called "white."
Classism and ethnic prejudices did exist among white Americans and had a tremendous impact on people's lives. But the bottom line was that for white people in America, no matter how poor or degraded they were, they knew there was a class of people below them. Poor whites were considered superior to blacks, and to Indians as well, simply by virtue of being white. Because of this, most identified with the rest of the white race and defended the institution of slavery. Working class whites did this even though slavery did not benefit them directly and was in many ways against their best interests.
Before 1800, free African American men had nominal rights of citizenship. In some places they could vote, serve on juries, and work in skilled trades. But as the need to justify slavery grew stronger, and racism started solidifying, free blacks gradually lost the rights that they did have. Through intimidation, changing laws and mob violence, whites claimed racial supremacy, and increasingly denied blacks their citizenship. And in 1857 the Dred Scott decision formally declared that blacks were not citizens of the United States.
In the northeastern states, blacks faced discrimination in many forms. Segregation was rampant, especially in Philadelphia, where African Americans were excluded from concert halls, public transportation, schools, churches, orphanages, and other places. Blacks were also forced out of the skilled professions in which they had been working. And soon after the turn of the century, African American men began to lose the right to vote -- a right that many states had granted following the Revolutionary War. Simultaneously, voting rights were being expanded for whites. New Jersey took the black vote away in 1807; in 1818, Connecticut took it away from black men who had not voted previously; in 1821, New York took away property requirements for white men to vote, but kept them for blacks. This meant that only a tiny percentage of black men could vote in that state. In 1838, Pennsylvania took the vote away entirely. The only states in which black men never lost the right to vote were Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts.
The situation in what was then the northwest region of the country was even worse. In Ohio, the state constitution of 1802 deprived blacks of the right to vote, to hold public office, and to testify against whites in court. Over the next five years, more restrictions were placed on African Americans. They could not live in Ohio without a certificate proving their free status, they had to post a $500 bond "to pay for their support in case of want," and they were prohibited from joining the state militia. In 1831 blacks were excluded from serving on juries and were not allowed admittance to state poorhouses, insane asylums, and other institutions. Fortunately, some of these laws were not stringently enforced, or it would have been virtually impossible for any African American to emigrate to Ohio.
In Illinois there were severe restrictions on free blacks entering the state, and Indiana barred them altogether. Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin were no friendlier. Because of this, the black populations of the northwestern states never exceeded 1 percent.
African Americans also faced violence at the hands of white northerners. Individual cases of assault and murder occured throughout the North, as did daily insults and harassment. Between 1820 and 1850, Northern blacks also became the frequent targets of mob violence. Whites looted, tore down, and burned black homes, churches, schools, and meeting halls. They stoned, beat, and sometimes murdered blacks. Philadelphia was the site of the worst and most frequent mob violence. City officials there generally refused to protect African Americans from white mobs and blamed blacks for inciting the violence with their "uppity" behavior.
African Americans and their white allies did not simply sit back and accept Northern racism; they responded to it in a whole range of ways. Black people founded their own churches, schools, and orphanages. They created mutual aid societies to provide financial assistance to those in need. They helped fugitive slaves adjust to life in the North. Blacks and whites working together took legal measures to try to prevent the erosion of black rights and to protest against new restrictions. African Americans held a series of national conventions to decide on a collective course of action. Combined with these actions was the constant effort to end slavery, to protect fugitive slaves, and to save free black people from being kidnapped and sold South. Some states even passed Personal Liberty Laws to counteract federal legislation such as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. These protected fugitives and guaranteed some rights to African American citizens of that state.
Race-based legislation in the North
1807 - 1850
To the fugitive slave fleeing a life of bondage, the North was a land of freedom. Or so he or she thought. Upon arriving there, the fugitive found that, though they were no longer slaves, neither were they free. African Americans in the North lived in a strange state of semi-freedom. The North may had emancipated its slaves, but it was not ready to treat the blacks as citizens. . . or sometimes even as human beings.
This was a time when European immigrants were pouring into the North. Many of these people had faced discrimination and hardship in their native countries. But in America they found their rights expanding rapidly. They had entered a country in which they were part of a privileged category called "white."
Classism and ethnic prejudices did exist among white Americans and had a tremendous impact on people's lives. But the bottom line was that for white people in America, no matter how poor or degraded they were, they knew there was a class of people below them. Poor whites were considered superior to blacks, and to Indians as well, simply by virtue of being white. Because of this, most identified with the rest of the white race and defended the institution of slavery. Working class whites did this even though slavery did not benefit them directly and was in many ways against their best interests.
Before 1800, free African American men had nominal rights of citizenship. In some places they could vote, serve on juries, and work in skilled trades. But as the need to justify slavery grew stronger, and racism started solidifying, free blacks gradually lost the rights that they did have. Through intimidation, changing laws and mob violence, whites claimed racial supremacy, and increasingly denied blacks their citizenship. And in 1857 the Dred Scott decision formally declared that blacks were not citizens of the United States.
In the northeastern states, blacks faced discrimination in many forms. Segregation was rampant, especially in Philadelphia, where African Americans were excluded from concert halls, public transportation, schools, churches, orphanages, and other places. Blacks were also forced out of the skilled professions in which they had been working. And soon after the turn of the century, African American men began to lose the right to vote -- a right that many states had granted following the Revolutionary War. Simultaneously, voting rights were being expanded for whites. New Jersey took the black vote away in 1807; in 1818, Connecticut took it away from black men who had not voted previously; in 1821, New York took away property requirements for white men to vote, but kept them for blacks. This meant that only a tiny percentage of black men could vote in that state. In 1838, Pennsylvania took the vote away entirely. The only states in which black men never lost the right to vote were Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts.
The situation in what was then the northwest region of the country was even worse. In Ohio, the state constitution of 1802 deprived blacks of the right to vote, to hold public office, and to testify against whites in court. Over the next five years, more restrictions were placed on African Americans. They could not live in Ohio without a certificate proving their free status, they had to post a $500 bond "to pay for their support in case of want," and they were prohibited from joining the state militia. In 1831 blacks were excluded from serving on juries and were not allowed admittance to state poorhouses, insane asylums, and other institutions. Fortunately, some of these laws were not stringently enforced, or it would have been virtually impossible for any African American to emigrate to Ohio.
In Illinois there were severe restrictions on free blacks entering the state, and Indiana barred them altogether. Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin were no friendlier. Because of this, the black populations of the northwestern states never exceeded 1 percent.
African Americans also faced violence at the hands of white northerners. Individual cases of assault and murder occured throughout the North, as did daily insults and harassment. Between 1820 and 1850, Northern blacks also became the frequent targets of mob violence. Whites looted, tore down, and burned black homes, churches, schools, and meeting halls. They stoned, beat, and sometimes murdered blacks. Philadelphia was the site of the worst and most frequent mob violence. City officials there generally refused to protect African Americans from white mobs and blamed blacks for inciting the violence with their "uppity" behavior.
African Americans and their white allies did not simply sit back and accept Northern racism; they responded to it in a whole range of ways. Black people founded their own churches, schools, and orphanages. They created mutual aid societies to provide financial assistance to those in need. They helped fugitive slaves adjust to life in the North. Blacks and whites working together took legal measures to try to prevent the erosion of black rights and to protest against new restrictions. African Americans held a series of national conventions to decide on a collective course of action. Combined with these actions was the constant effort to end slavery, to protect fugitive slaves, and to save free black people from being kidnapped and sold South. Some states even passed Personal Liberty Laws to counteract federal legislation such as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. These protected fugitives and guaranteed some rights to African American citizens of that state.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
What IM2 is saying is that 400 years of race based discrimination, legislation, practices, policies, social mores, harassment and abuse is not the same thing as the animus that is sometimes displayed by the recipients of that abuse who have every right to feel resentment and express their displeasure. This is what most of the white racists call "racism" and it's not even comparable to white institutional racism and it's remnants.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
Except the quotes that Mac posted here in December 2019 show that white racism still exists.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
When he brings up the "blacks graduate at a lower rate than whites" stat, ask him when he graduated.
Hmmm...sounds like flaming to me. lol.
Yes; very naughty. But using subjective criteria is always problematic. For example, if jump starting a car is one of the criteria then I would be streets ahead in the IQ stakes because I know so few people have that "intelligence". Similarly with hot wiring a car etc etc..........or throwing a boomerang, following a goanna trail, knowing bush tucker etc etc. By most criteria used today 21st century people are far more intelligent than their medieval counterparts. It's a non-story really.
Greg
Facts are facts and the Stats don't lie. But they do need to be interpreted. So what is the CAUSE of Black violence and crime? without THAT honest conversation then there will be no change and the Blacks will continue to be subjected to that criminal activity. Is it a policing issue and if so WHAT is the issue/are the issues? My own guess is that it starts with PEOPLE behaving badly. The rest? I'll leave to the experts though they seem to be failing. My starting point would be getting DRUGS off the streets and that includes coke snorting rich folk like the Bidens.
Greg
Mac1958
Diamond Member
I have no problem with any of that. And, being of mixed race and married into another mixed race family, I think that those who try to deny the above are simply l-y-i-n-g. And they're not very tough to find on this board, that's for damn sure.
Where he and I part ways is that I think the other end of this debate has plenty to answer for, as well. Not as much minorities, as those on the Left in general who enable the worst behaviors of minorities by spinning for them, deflecting for them, attacking for them, lowering standards for them. To deny that also seems blatantly dishonest to me.
The 13 behaviors I list above are clearly displayed by both ends of the spectrum on virtually all of the issues, every single day, and they are terribly counter-productive and the main drivers of our deepening divisions and tribalism. I want us to put more effort into being on the same page, not trying to "beat" the other "side".
.
Mac1958
Diamond Member
I'm very glad you bring up ROOT CAUSES, because THAT'S what MATTERS if we're REALLY trying to IMPROVE anything, and that's where I see plenty of house-cleaning needed on both ends of this.
.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. I'm African American and I would like to think that none of those traits apply to me since I'm pretty mindful of my behavior nor to any immediate members of my family.
Those types of behavior would be hard if not impossible, at least for me, to tolerate in anyone irrespective of their race or political leanings.
NewsVine_Mariyam
Diamond Member
Twitter generation?
Mac1958
Diamond Member
I put much more of the blame for this on white "progressives" who are largely responsible for the tactics I mention above. Minorities have simply been raised in this environment for the last three generations. That's not their fault. I don't want to paint minorities as victims here, and minorities are fully responsible for their actions, but this multi-generational coddling and enabling would affect anyone.
There are some in my family who are fine with those tactics. There are others, like me, who are insulted by them, and who think they have retarded minorities' growth.
.
Last edited:
IM2
Diamond Member
- Mar 11, 2015
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The problem with those like you is that you ignore the fact whites commit more crimes. That's what the stats show. The childish reply of there are more whites is a piss poor excuse. You don't get to commit more crimes because there are more of you. So maybe you start asking: So what is the CAUSE of white violence and crime? Since there are more of you, and you give yourselves excuses to commit crime, whites have created a violent and criminal American culture. And as we see, that criminality starts at the top.
IM2
Diamond Member
- Mar 11, 2015
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You've got problems. You have bought in to the right wing lie about progressives and blacks as well as ignoring the historically higher violence and crime in white communities. You co sign the right wing lie about lowering standards for minorities while ignoring the continuing history of whites asking no other qualifications of themselves but that they are white. All you have done in the quote is repeat right wing spin and the excuses they make for themselves. Their opposition to progressives is solely based on an opposition to equal rights for people of color. Being a person of color yourself, you need to pay far closer attention. So I'll post this again, because it shows what the true root cause of the problem is, not an assumption based on the denial of the major problem this nation faces.
On October 24, 2013, the Kellogg Foundation sent out a press release about a report they had done entitled, “The Business Case for Racial Equity”. This was a study done by the Kellogg Foundation, using information it had studied and assessed from the Center for American Progress, National Urban League Policy Institute, Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and the U.S. Department of Justice.
“Striving for racial equity – a world where race is no longer a factor in the distribution of opportunity – is a matter of social justice. But moving toward racial equity can generate significant economic returns as well. When people face barriers to achieving their full potential, the loss of talent, creativity, energy, and productivity is a burden not only for those disadvantaged, but for communities, businesses, governments, and the economy as a whole. Initial research on the magnitude of this burden in the United States (U.S.), as highlighted in this brief, reveals impacts in the trillions of dollars in lost earnings, avoidable public expenditures, and lost economic output.”
The Kellogg Foundation and Altarum Institute
In 2011, DEMOS did a study named “The Racial Wealth Gap, Why Policy Matters”, which discussed the racial wealth gap, the problems associated with it along with solutions and outcomes if the gap did not exist. In this study DEMOS determined that the racial wealth gap was primarily driven by policy decisions.
Notice the last 3 lines in the quote. Racism has cost this country trillions of dollars and has created numerous social problems as a result. But people want to ignore this and pretend racism is just calling somebody a racial slur or not capitalizing the word white.
Let me continue.
As we look at the numbers, we see what has caused our economic problem and it’s not the loss of jobs by the white working class. The numbers show us that many of our national difficulties do not have to exist. For example, there are almost 17 million black households. 16,997,000 to be exact. There are 17,318,000 Latino households. The median white household had an income of $50,400 a year while the median income was $32,028 for Blacks and $36,840 for Latinos. That difference of $18,372 for blacks and $13,560 for Latinos equals a combined loss of $31,932 for over 34 million households each year. It is a loss of over 1/2 trillion dollars of taxable income annually. In addition, racism erases billions of dollars that can be circulated in our economy. These are huge losses created because of racist public policy.
Over the course of the past several decades we have heard over and over how if we cut taxes we stimulate growth. But it seems that if we erase racism, racist policies and racist policy decisions that adversely affects COMMUNITIES, that we could erase many of the problems we see today. We are talking about serious increases in GDP, deficit reductions, increased tax revenue, more tax payers instead of more needing public assistance, increased corporate profits which means more jobs and yet there remains a great resistance to do this. Again, racism is more than racial slurs or racist comments. Racism in America has had a negative economic impact on the black community, other communities of color and in fact, the entire country.
Again, let me break down what white racism has done to this nation. While certain whites gloat about how successful they have been as a race and lecture others about how they have failed, facts they have created the problems being complained about today. If not for racism everyone would be better off economically, fewer people would be on the public dime, tax revenues would increase at every level, we’d have a smaller deficit, or possibly no national deficit or debt. Crime would be reduced dramatically, unemployment very well would be less than 1 percent. More than likely the increased tax revenue could help provide free education and health care to all American citizens. After reading study after study shoes us that virtually every economic problem we have stems from the racism that has denied people of color opportunity.
IM2
Diamond Member
- Mar 11, 2015
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Whites would be nothing if not for the handouts government at every level has given you.To be blunt, YOU are the only race that can't seem to succeed except by whining for handouts. Don't be that race.Another white person unable to face the truth.
Carl in Michigan
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2016
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I was wondering when you'd be back from the beating you took. I'm glad you survivedWhites would be nothing if not for the handouts government at every level has given you.To be blunt, YOU are the only race that can't seem to succeed except by whining for handouts. Don't be that race.Another white person unable to face the truth.
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